ALL THINGS SUH

[tpaulus_2]

Ahhh -- there are the excuses, we've all come to know and love. It isn't a lack of talent, it is the coaching staff. It isn't the players fault, it is the scheme.

So are you saying the Lions have had 50 years of bad coaching and schemes? Whose fault was it when the Lions went from 0-16 to 10-6 in 3 years?

Also -- when is the last time a coach led the league in drop passes by double digits? who is the last set of coaches to finish 1st and 2nd in lost fumbles as RB's?

My final question is -- since Detroit is loaded with talent and the only thing holding them back is their coaching staff and scheme. How can you possibly predict they will finish 8-8 now, when they got rid of what was holding them back? They finished 7-9 last season. The new coaching staff is only going to get the team to .500?

Pricelss... the reigning king of excuses is going to try to use that on someone else... too funny. I needed a good laugh.

"... But the secondary isn't as good as the numbers show because they only played really shitty teams last season!" - TrustMe

 

[tpaulus_2]

Ahhh -- there are the excuses, we've all come to know and love. It isn't a lack of talent, it is the coaching staff. It isn't the players fault, it is the scheme.

So are you saying the Lions have had 50 years of bad coaching and schemes? Whose fault was it when the Lions went from 0-16 to 10-6 in 3 years?

Also -- when is the last time a coach led the league in drop passes by double digits? who is the last set of coaches to finish 1st and 2nd in lost fumbles as RB's?

My final question is -- since Detroit is loaded with talent and the only thing holding them back is their coaching staff and scheme. How can you possibly predict they will finish 8-8 now, when they got rid of what was holding them back? They finished 7-9 last season. The new coaching staff is only going to get the team to .500?

AP had as many fumbles as Bush (5) and lost as many as Bell (3), so your made-up numbers there just went right out the window. Maybe look stats up before putting your name on them and offering them up as true?

Fumbles are a part of the position. Bush and Bell obviously had too many, but not grossly so as you're trying to make it seem. If they both had just two less fumbles last year we're not having this discussion at all...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Where did I insult you before your usual rant? Saying Detroit has a better chance of Suh signing for a hometown discount than you admitting you are wrong? You yoopers have some thin skin if that upset you.

Yep, that's exactly the post I was referencing. You hadn't been in the conversation at all, and your first post on the matter wasn't anything to do with the players we were discussing, just a shot at me out of the blue.

Try to play it off as a joke all you want, but fact is you're a dick who likes to stir the pot. I knew that, though, so I suppose I'm just as much to blame for taking your bait, because I knew beforehand that you'd pull this exact shit right here.

Always the victim, never the aggressor... stick with what you know, I guess...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Bush finished 8th in the league in yards from scrimmage for RBs with 1,512 yards. Bell put up over 1,000 yards from scrimmage as well. They were the first pair of NFL RBs to ever go over 500 yards receiving each in the same season.

The discussion that you're referring to, with them being "one of the best" in the NFL (you use vague language a lot to give you extra wiggle room in your arguments, I've noticed) was actually whether or not they were a top-10 RB pair last year. Unless you're very biased and jaded, they were absolutely a top-10 pair. Bush alone was a top-10 back. Bell was one of the best back-ups in the league. Together there's no way they don't form a top-10 tandem.

And save it with the fumbles. Yes, they sucked. Yes you like to make fun of me for comparing a RBs fumbles-per-touch to a QBs INTs-per-touch, because, apparently QBs are allowed and expected to turn the ball over, but RBs never, ever, ever are- at least according to the logic you like to use. Anywho, Bush had the same amount of fumbles as Adrian Peterson last season, but since AP doesn't play for the Lions he still gets a pass from you as a great RB. If he played for us and had to suffer your "Lions players suck because they're Lions players" bias, I'm sure you'd be arguing with us why AP isn't a top ten RB because he had the same amount of fumbles last year as Bush, and that's exactly the logic you're using to tell us why Bush isn't as good as we think he is.

That's kind of how you operate in a nutshell, though- things that you'll use to make an argument against a Lions player don't seem to apply to the rest of the league. The Lions are apparently held to a higher standard than the rest of the league, that or because our team wasn't successful as a unit that means any individual accomplishments are null and void. Only players from playoff teams can be considered among the league's best, right?

What are you talking about? What argument have I made that doesn't go along for the rest of the league?

And if I remember correctly -- in the Bush/Bell thread -- I said -- Production wise, they were one of the best RB tandems in the NFL, as they put up roughly 2700 yards from the line of scrimmage.

When the tandem turned the ball over 7 times and dropped double digit passes -- It kind of hurts their cause. It isn't twisting words or giving myself wiggle room -- it is the truth. 7 lost fumbles and double digit dropped passes are unacceptable. To even attempt to say otherwise is crazy.

As far as comparing Peterson to Bush and Bell -- AP had 280 carries with 3 fumbles and 2 lost fumbles. Bush and 225 with 5 fumbles and 4 lost. Bell had 166 with 4 fumbles 3 lost. I agree wholeheartedly that Peterson isn't a good catching the ball out of the backfield, which is why you don't see him with a ton of catches. He drops too many balls and gets the ball stripped (which is where 2 of his fumbles and 1 lost fumble occurred you are talking about). Mentioning AP in the same sentence as Bush and Bell is pointless, unless defenses start stacking the box every single game to stop Bush and Bell.

If AP got to see the same defensive fronts that Detroit Lions RB's get to see -- He may run for 2700 yards. I'm guessing the last time Peterson saw the safeties 20+ yards off the line of scrimmage was grade school.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Pricelss... the reigning king of excuses is going to try to use that on someone else... too funny. I needed a good laugh.

"... But the secondary isn't as good as the numbers show because they only played really shitty teams last season!" - TrustMe

I'm glad I could provide you with a laugh, even though I'm pretty sure you are the only one laughing, because I'm not quite sure what it is that is funny?

Am I missing something or did Detroit not have the 2nd easiest schedule in the NFL last season?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Fumbles are a part of the position. Bush and Bell obviously had too many, but not grossly so as you're trying to make it seem. If they both had just two less fumbles last year we're not having this discussion at all...

Bush and Bell had 7 lost fumbles. You tell me how many the team with the 2nd most lost fumbles had for their top tandem of RB's.

FYI -- I couldn't care less about "fumbles". Turning the ball over is the issue. So cutting down fumbles is fine, but if they only fumble 3 times each next year, but lose all 6 fumbles -- It isn't helping the team out.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Yep, that's exactly the post I was referencing. You hadn't been in the conversation at all, and your first post on the matter wasn't anything to do with the players we were discussing, just a shot at me out of the blue.

Try to play it off as a joke all you want, but fact is you're a dick who likes to stir the pot. I knew that, though, so I suppose I'm just as much to blame for taking your bait, because I knew beforehand that you'd pull this exact shit right here.

Always the victim, never the aggressor... stick with what you know, I guess...

I wasn't playing it off as a joke. I was dead serious. You will argue till you are blue in the face and make up obscure stats (like the QB interception ratio argument), just so you don't have to admit you are wrong.

It isn't a big deal. It is actually entertaining to see what you will come up with next. Makes the board interesting.

I'm actually hoping you are coming up with entertaining responses to some of the points in this thread you seemed to overlook -- like which coaching staff took the team from 0-16 to 10-6? Have the Lions organization had 50 years of bad coaching and schemes? etc.

 

[tpaulus_2]

What are you talking about? What argument have I made that doesn't go along for the rest of the league?

And if I remember correctly -- in the Bush/Bell thread -- I said -- Production wise, they were one of the best RB tandems in the NFL, as they put up roughly 2700 yards from the line of scrimmage.

When the tandem turned the ball over 7 times and dropped double digit passes -- It kind of hurts their cause. It isn't twisting words or giving myself wiggle room -- it is the truth. 7 lost fumbles and double digit dropped passes are unacceptable. To even attempt to say otherwise is crazy.

As far as comparing Peterson to Bush and Bell -- AP had 280 carries with 3 fumbles and 2 lost fumbles. Bush and 225 with 5 fumbles and 4 lost. Bell had 166 with 4 fumbles 3 lost. I agree wholeheartedly that Peterson isn't a good catching the ball out of the backfield, which is why you don't see him with a ton of catches. He drops too many balls and gets the ball stripped (which is where 2 of his fumbles and 1 lost fumble occurred you are talking about). Mentioning AP in the same sentence as Bush and Bell is pointless, unless defenses start stacking the box every single game to stop Bush and Bell.

If AP got to see the same defensive fronts that Detroit Lions RB's get to see -- He may run for 2700 yards. I'm guessing the last time Peterson saw the safeties 20+ yards off the line of scrimmage was grade school.

According to the NFL website (which I'm sure you'll come up with some way to discredit) Peterson had 5 fumbles (same as Reggie) and lost 3. Readily available info- Adrian Peterson, RB for the Minnesota Vikings at NFL.com

 

[gandydancer]

 

[RobBase]

Martin Mayhew's momma taking questions from Lions fans.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

According to the NFL website (which I'm sure you'll come up with some way to discredit) Peterson had 5 fumbles (same as Reggie) and lost 3. Readily available info- Adrian Peterson, RB for the Minnesota Vikings at NFL.com

If I said he had 3 fumbles with 2 lost on 280 carries and 2 fumbles and 1 lost on 29 receptions -- After consulting with my 5 year nephew on the math. That equals 5 fumbles and 3 lost.

Which is why I said -- I agree wholeheartedly that AP isn't good catching the ball out of the backfield, as he doesn't have good hands and doesn't secure the ball after the catch. It is why he isn't used a ton in the passing game.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I see I havent missed much.


Hello TP.

Lol, what's up Laker?

In all fairness Meow and I were having a perfectly good debate when douchenozzle there decided to jump in- not with anything pertinent to our debate mind you, just to insult me out of the blue. I know I should have been the bigger man and ignored his nonsense, but that's no fun...

 

[tpaulus_2]

If I said he had 3 fumbles with 2 lost on 280 carries and 2 fumbles and 1 lost on 29 receptions -- After consulting with my 5 year nephew on the math. That equals 5 fumbles and 3 lost.

Which is why I said -- I agree wholeheartedly that AP isn't good catching the ball out of the backfield, as he doesn't have good hands and doesn't secure the ball after the catch. It is why he isn't used a ton in the passing game.

Ahh- I see. So you're saying AP's weren't as critical to his team, because two of them came on receptions, and not on carries. Gotcha.

I was wondering how you'd spin that one in your favor...

 

[broncosmitty]

Ahh- I see. So you're saying AP's weren't as critical to his team, because two of them came on receptions, and not on carries. Gotcha.

I was wondering how you'd spin that one in your favor...

Where did you find the filter for when you read MikeD's posts?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Ahh- I see. So you're saying AP's weren't as critical to his team, because two of them came on receptions, and not on carries. Gotcha.

I was wondering how you'd spin that one in your favor...

Where did I say they weren't critical to his team? IF AP didn't drop balls and fumble too much after catching passes -- Minnesota would use him a hell of a lot more in the passing game. He averages less than 30 receptions a year in his career because of these issues.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Where did you find the filter for when you read MikeD's posts?

I honestly missed farther down in that one where he said two more came on receptions, but I'm also curious why it matters less that two of his fumbles came from receptions, rather than rushes?

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

What's the progress on a new contract for Suh?

What's that, nobody has any information at all?

Maybe Lewand is on vacation rather than worrying about it and is instead spending his time drunk off his ass joy riding around.

Curious to see how many of you will jump on my "Clown Show" bandwagon if one of the following happens.......Suh leaves in FA next year, he gets traded for crap value compared to what we could have gotten pre-draft, or he gets signed to a deal that is substantially above the market rate for his position. If you aren't flexible enough to bend over and grab your ankles you better start doing some stretching exercises because we are all about to take it in the ass from the front office clowns.

Oh, Rob Sims sucks.

 

[broncosmitty]

I honestly missed farther down in that one where he said two more came on receptions, but I'm also curious why it matters less that two of his fumbles came from receptions, rather than rushes?

I don't think it does. AP has shitty hands. That's why he's not the best RB in football, contrary to popular opinion. (Especially his)

 

[tpaulus_2]

I'd still call him the best RB in the game. He's pretty damn good.


Shady McCoy is sweet as well, but just not enough to knock the future HOF off the perch as the current best in the game.


That's just my opinion, though...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I honestly missed farther down in that one where he said two more came on receptions, but I'm also curious why it matters less that two of his fumbles came from receptions, rather than rushes?

A fumble is still a fumble, but it is a really simple fix if he is losing the ball after receptions -- you stop throwing him the ball.

As I said and Smitty repeated -- AP doesn't have good hands. If he did -- Minnesota would be using him like crazy out of the backfield.

Running the football -- I think he is best in the game. As an all-around RB, which includes ball security, catching the ball and blocking -- It gives other RBs a chance to get into the argument. Obviously it is opinion based on who is the best.