ALL THINGS SUH

[Microwahevo]

My issue is, has been, and continues to be the treatment of anyone who doesn't share that same level of optimism.

Why do u feel like you're a part of a group that's been oppressed for years? That's how I take your statement. This board, and the former CBS board has always been full of arguments, and shit attitudes towards others since I can remember. This isn't something new.

Is your issue the way TP(and I'm guessing Kreton as well) conversate with the rest of the board? Do you feel he's out of line? Or is it that he has an optimistic view on alotnof things? I'm just trying to understand where this "anger", for lack of a better word, is coming from. Bc TP gets treated pretty shitty by others as well. Is it bc of what you, or they(I know they haven't answered yet) feel is only right? Maybe he is tired of their attitudes? I don't know, I can't say for sure. I can say that I couldn't care less if certain posters react negatively towards me. There's more than enough I respect here to have decent conversations and disagreements.

 

[tpaulus_2]

The difference between you and I TP is this -- I can view the team as a whole and readily see the issues they have.

No, the difference between us is that I'm ready and willing to defend my opinions with at least some supporting material, whereas you hide behind the scenes like a little bitch until 3 or 4 others are already on the side you want to take- then you jump in with insults like a teenage girl would. That's the biggest difference between us. I may not agree with Dr. Eviler, but at least I'm man enough to debate with him straight up, rather than using your sorry-assed tactics.

When I read threads on here about the Lions having one of the best OL and one of the best RB groups and one of the best DL, etc. It just cracks me up.

This is the condescending arrogance I referenced above. You act like you're so much smarter than the rest of us because you think one way and we think another; just who the fuck are you that you get off insulting others because we don't share your vaunted opinion?

By the numbers, and I know you'll just come up with some bitch excuse why the numbers are flawed, like you always do when hard evidence conflicts with your precious opinion, but by the numbers our OL was one of the best last year. You can laugh that off like an insecure douche all you want, but I'll go with the expert's stats and rankings over yours every time. I know you have a massive ego and think you understand the NFL better than the people who do this stuff for a living, but the rest of us don't think quite so highly of your football acumen.

As for the RBs and DL, they're both debatable as top-10 units. I know the rest of us aren't allowed to discuss that kind of stuff because our team as a whole under-achieved for the last two seasons, but it is what it is. If you don't like it, don't participate. But openly laughing at those of us who do want to discuss those topics is a straight asshole move. Just saying.

When I make a comment in those threads -- You are waiting in the wings with a slew of excuses, but continue to ignore the big picture. It is Linehan's fault, it is Schwartz's fault, it is the system's fault, Detroit's running backs didn't fumble that much -- look at the interception ratio for top QB's or my favorite one -- Detroit didn't fumble that much, the rest of the league held onto the ball more securely than in year's past. It isn't the DL's fault they only had 33 sacks -- it was the system. The CB's weren't good because the coaching staff didn't play them in their strengths.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black- nobody around here makes more excuses to defend their view-point than you do. My favorite is that the secondary was actually much worst than the numbers last year showed because we played the teams on our schedule, rather than playing a four team rotation of the Broncos, Saints, Packers and Pats all season long.

When you finally realize -- Detroit is an extremely flawed team, built around their offense. You won't have to make any more excuses and you will understand why they are 11-21 the last two years.

When you finally pull your head out of your ass and realize that your snap decisions that you seem base off your gut feelings and not much else aren't the end-all-be-all of Lions facts, you'll start to realize that there were a lot more factors in our record over the last two years than crappy players and a bad GM. More people than just me feel that the coaching staff played a pretty big role in that, but apparently not you, so therefore it can't be true because you're never wrong and know everything there is to know.

In all honesty -- I don't have anything personal against you TP. I just have issues with fanatics, which to me are different than fans. Fanatics think every more, every draft pick, every signing
has put the team over the hump and next year will be the year to win it all. Fans can look at the team without bias and see the faults and where the team needs to get better before getting to the next level.

That's great, but if you think for even half a second that you look at this team without bias, well that's the funniest shit I've heard all day. I don't think there's a single person on this board that views our team with more straight-up bias than you do. Get real man, just because you treat those of us who disagree with you like we're stupid doesn't mean that we actually are stupid enough to buy this crap.

I put you and Kreton as the President and Vice President of the Lions Fanatics Club.

Outstanding. I'll go ahead and bump you to the top of my arrogant douchebag list then. Or how about King Asshole? Either/or applies, so take your pick...

 

[tpaulus_2]

And yes, I realize that your next move is to play the victim card and cry about me resorting to calling you names, even though, as usual, you cast the first insult, totally unprovoked.


I know your gamer, time for a different move this time now that I've called this one out before you had the chance to use it.


I also realize that my post was rude and condescending- just figured you could use a taste of your own medicine for a change...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

And yes, I realize that your next move is to play the victim card and cry about me resorting to calling you names, even though, as usual, you cast the first insult, totally unprovoked.

I have no reason to play the 'victim card' -- You act like your response is something new to everyone on this board. That is the norm. If you didn't respond with name calling and elementary BS, I would be shocked.

It just makes you look like a fool, so carry on with it.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I know your gamer, time for a different move this time now that I've called this one out before you had the chance to use it.


I also realize that my post was rude and condescending- just figured you could use a taste of your own medicine for a change...

What move is that? Saying the same thing pretty much everyone on this board knows already? It isn't a secret that you are a homer. The only bigger homer's on these boards are Kreton on the Lions board and Doug on the Tigers board. At least with Doug -- his comments are dripping with sarcasm and humor. You actually believe the stuff you type out.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

This is the condescending arrogance I referenced above. You act like you're so much smarter than the rest of us because you think one way and we think another; just who the fuck are you that you get off insulting others because we don't share your vaunted opinion?

By the numbers, and I know you'll just come up with some bitch excuse why the numbers are flawed, like you always do when hard evidence conflicts with your precious opinion, but by the numbers our OL was one of the best last year. You can laugh that off like an insecure douche all you want, but I'll go with the expert's stats and rankings over yours every time. I know you have a massive ego and think you understand the NFL better than the people who do this stuff for a living, but the rest of us don't think quite so highly of your football acumen.

As for the RBs and DL, they're both debatable as top-10 units. I know the rest of us aren't allowed to discuss that kind of stuff because our team as a whole under-achieved for the last two seasons, but it is what it is. If you don't like it, don't participate. But openly laughing at those of us who do want to discuss those topics is a straight asshole move. Just saying.

FYI -- our OL had almost identical stats in 2012 for pass protection (they gave up 6 more sacks, but Stafford threw 100 times more). 2012 -- Detroit averaged more yards per carry, which was still not very good, but better than 2013.

So in 2012 -- Detroit had one of the best OL's in the NFL? They then replaced 3 people on the OL and they were again one of the best OL's in the NFL? Stafford makes the offensive line look better than they are by not taking sacks. It is the same for teams with Peyton Manning. Are you saying every team Peyton Manning has been on has had one of the best pass blocking units in the NFL, if not the best almost every season? Of course not -- he gets rid of the ball, instead of taking the sack. The same thing Stafford does, but Stafford forces more throws, which has led to a lot of extra turnovers for the offense.

As far as laughing at you for thinking the Lions have a top 10 this and a top 5 that. I'm not laughing at all, though it is humorous to me. The only thing the Lions have had a top 10 and top 5 of the last couple years are draft picks in the 1st round.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

When you finally pull your head out of your ass and realize that your snap decisions that you seem base off your gut feelings and not much else aren't the end-all-be-all of Lions facts, you'll start to realize that there were a lot more factors in our record over the last two years than crappy players and a bad GM. More people than just me feel that the coaching staff played a pretty big role in that, but apparently not you, so therefore it can't be true because you're never wrong and know everything there is to know.

Gut feeling? THE LIONS ARE 11-21 THE LAST TWO YEARS. They had the 2nd easiest schedule in the NFL last year and still ended up with a top 10 pick. Take off the homer glasses.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Outstanding. I'll go ahead and bump you to the top of my arrogant douchebag list then. Or how about King Asshole? Either/or applies, so take your pick...

I'll pass on the King Asshole -- I hate LeBron James and he has the King nickname. So I'll take the top of your arrogant douchebag list. I'm sure it must be a long and distinguished list, as very few fans are going to see the Lions in the same light as you do. So I'm sure they are on your list too.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

That's great, but if you think for even half a second that you look at this team without bias, well that's the funniest shit I've heard all day. I don't think there's a single person on this board that views our team with more straight-up bias than you do. Get real man, just because you treat those of us who disagree with you like we're stupid doesn't mean that we actually are stupid enough to buy this crap.

What bias do I have? I'm on the record as saying Calvin Johnson is the best WR in the football. I also said Golden Tate is a perfect complement to CJ, but of course, I would have rather seen the Lions use the money on the defense.

I've said I really like Stafford and think once he matures some more and finally understands he can't force every throw into triple coverage -- he is going to be a great QB. Do I like how much they paid him? No. But they signed him after his monster season.

I've said I like our RB's as they both can catch the ball out of the backfield and they are two different types of backs. Does that mean I am going to say they are one of the best in the NFL after finishing 1st and 2nd in lost fumbles and dropping 10+ passes? No.

I've said I like our DL and Suh is one of my favorite players. Do I think he should be the highest paid defensive player in the NFL? Absolutely not. I don't think he should get a dime more than he signed his original contract for. If he wants more than that -- I'd rather see him walk and see the Lions use the money to upgrade multiple positions on the defense. Does that makes me biased because I don't want the Lions to re-sign my favorite player on the team?

You see TP -- I have no issues talking about the good with the Lions. When the team has 11 wins in their last 32 games -- there is a lot more wrong with the team than right. Talking up a team who has drafted in the top 10 back to back years is useless unless they fix the issues they had. We needed to upgrade in our secondary and we didn't. We needed to upgrade at Safety and IMO, we didn't. Ihedbigo could prove me wrong though -- I just can't hang my hat on a guy who will be 31 or whatever and has been a full time starter for one season. We needed to get a 3rd WR and in a draft where 1st round talent could be had in the 2nd and 3rd rounds -- we don't draft a WR til the 6th round and instead, draft a TE who had the highest drop rate of any player in the NCAA to add to a team who led the NFL by double digits in drops last season.

I have no problem speaking my mind when I don't agree with how the Lions handled their draft or their free agent signings. I'm not going to pass blame off on a coaching staff or a scheme -- Tennessee was a top 5-10 defense for multiple years running the wide 9 and Schwartz was looked at as one of the best defensive minds in the NFL (he was hired immediately by Buffalo after leaving Detroit) -- Yet it fails in Detroit and it is his fault. Linehan, if i'm not mistaken, was the OC of the Minnesota teams who put up points in bunches. The Lions offense struggles and it is Linehan's fault.

Schwartz can't make his RB's hold onto the football. Linehan can't make his WR's catch the ball. Cunningham can't go out and play CB for the team. The results the Lions have had the last few years is on the players and they have even come out and said as much, at least Reggie Bush did.

That is why I can't stand hearing people put blame on a coaching staff. Are you saying the Lions have had 50 years of piss poor coaches, as they have one playoff win in that time frame?

 

[gandydancer]

 

[themuzzer]

Give me some of that popcorn! It's been awhile since we got into one of these.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Give me some of that popcorn! It's been awhile since we got into one of these

there is no popcorn needed. the teams 11-21 record speaks volumes i would hope.

 

[themuzzer]

there is no popcorn needed. the teams 11-21 record speaks volumes i would hope.

No doubt......The one and only stat that i actually give a shit about is win and losses......Not about how many games we lost by 3 points.....Not how many turnovers, Not the sacks, Not INT to Yards passing ratio...Etc Etc Etc......


This team has been flipping dys-FUNK-shun-ALL for 50 years plus........I'll believe the hype when I see it on the field and it produces wins and losses......

I'm a old fart, This isn't my first rodeo with the hype machine that ramps up before every season to only be laughed at again by the rest of the NFL.......As you guys get older and more scorned, it's ok to come to the dark side.......Doesn't mean you love the Lions any less, You just learn not to get fooled and duped into silly shit like buying season tickets etc etc......

 

[tpaulus_2]

there is no popcorn needed. the teams 11-21 record speaks volumes i would hope.

Yep- it speaks volumes as to the crappy job the coaching staff did over those last two years. Way too much talent to have that kind of winning percentage- as such they were fired. Seems pretty obvious to everyone except you.


Also, save the crap about me insulting you- you started that shit plain as day on this thread, everyone can see it, so there's no sense trying to lie your way out of it. If you're going to come out of the blue just to insult me, don't act like a bitch when I return in kind, that's just weak...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Yep- it speaks volumes as to the crappy job the coaching staff did over those last two years. Way too much talent to have that kind of winning percentage- as such they were fired. Seems pretty obvious to everyone except you.


Also, save the crap about me insulting you- you started that shit plain as day on this thread, everyone can see it, so there's no sense trying to lie your way out of it. If you're going to come out of the blue just to insult me, don't act like a bitch when I return in kind, that's just weak...

Ahhh -- there are the excuses, we've all come to know and love. It isn't a lack of talent, it is the coaching staff. It isn't the players fault, it is the scheme.

So are you saying the Lions have had 50 years of bad coaching and schemes? Whose fault was it when the Lions went from 0-16 to 10-6 in 3 years?

Also -- when is the last time a coach led the league in drop passes by double digits? who is the last set of coaches to finish 1st and 2nd in lost fumbles as RB's?

My final question is -- since Detroit is loaded with talent and the only thing holding them back is their coaching staff and scheme. How can you possibly predict they will finish 8-8 now, when they got rid of what was holding them back? They finished 7-9 last season. The new coaching staff is only going to get the team to .500?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Also, save the crap about me insulting you- you started that shit plain as day on this thread, everyone can see it, so there's no sense trying to lie your way out of it. If you're going to come out of the blue just to insult me, don't act like a bitch when I return in kind, that's just weak...

Where did I insult you before your usual rant? Saying Detroit has a better chance of Suh signing for a hometown discount than you admitting you are wrong? You yoopers have some thin skin if that upset you.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Yep- it speaks volumes as to the crappy job the coaching staff did over those last two years. Way too much talent to have that kind of winning percentage- as such they were fired

No argument they were bad. But, they weren't on the field and didn't teach penalties, turnovers, dropped passes, etc. That's on the players, not the staff.

I've said many times I'm a fact based realist, and the facts say a lot more than coaching as a problem. Last year we led the league in dropped passes, were 3rd in fumbles (2nd in lost fumbles), our T/O margin was -12, and we were top 10 in penalties on the offensive side of the ball. Those numbers are going to make winning hard.

Yet despite that were 13th in points and held on to the ball an average of 32:22 min per game. Imagine what those numbers could be if we did stop committing penalties, hung on to the ball, caught the damn thiing and got more accuracy and better decision making out of our QB.

I think you could also question the leadership of the guys wearing the C's on their uniforms. Until the team and new staff shows us differently 11-21 is reality. Anything else is pure speculation.

Should they be better than that? Absolutely. Can they be better than that? Absoltuely. Will they be better than that? ??????? TBD

 

[gvsulaker82]

I see I havent missed much.


Hello TP.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Doesn't mean you love the Lions any less, You just learn not to get fooled and duped into silly shit like buying season tickets etc etc......

Simmer down now Muzz, simmer down.

Realistically loving to hate this team doesn't mean renewing tickets and buying the new jerseys, etc. changes anything. I'll want those tickets and jerseys when I finally do get to attend a home playoff game or NFC Championship game.

I don't know when that might be and if I have to spend my social security check to do so I will. I am not happy with this team right now but if they get their acts together and we get a couple of surprises in the defensive backfield (or simply a better scheme) this team "could" surprise everyone.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I've said I like our RB's as they both can catch the ball out of the backfield and they are two different types of backs. Does that mean I am going to say they are one of the best in the NFL after finishing 1st and 2nd in lost fumbles and dropping 10+ passes? No.

Bush finished 8th in the league in yards from scrimmage for RBs with 1,512 yards. Bell put up over 1,000 yards from scrimmage as well. They were the first pair of NFL RBs to ever go over 500 yards receiving each in the same season.

The discussion that you're referring to, with them being "one of the best" in the NFL (you use vague language a lot to give you extra wiggle room in your arguments, I've noticed) was actually whether or not they were a top-10 RB pair last year. Unless you're very biased and jaded, they were absolutely a top-10 pair. Bush alone was a top-10 back. Bell was one of the best back-ups in the league. Together there's no way they don't form a top-10 tandem.

And save it with the fumbles. Yes, they sucked. Yes you like to make fun of me for comparing a RBs fumbles-per-touch to a QBs INTs-per-touch, because, apparently QBs are allowed and expected to turn the ball over, but RBs never, ever, ever are- at least according to the logic you like to use. Anywho, Bush had the same amount of fumbles as Adrian Peterson last season, but since AP doesn't play for the Lions he still gets a pass from you as a great RB. If he played for us and had to suffer your "Lions players suck because they're Lions players" bias, I'm sure you'd be arguing with us why AP isn't a top ten RB because he had the same amount of fumbles last year as Bush, and that's exactly the logic you're using to tell us why Bush isn't as good as we think he is.

That's kind of how you operate in a nutshell, though- things that you'll use to make an argument against a Lions player don't seem to apply to the rest of the league. The Lions are apparently held to a higher standard than the rest of the league, that or because our team wasn't successful as a unit that means any individual accomplishments are null and void. Only players from playoff teams can be considered among the league's best, right?