ALL THINGS SUH

[tpaulus_2]

Also, are we talking "average" as in his level of play, or "average" as in his ranking among his peers? Not necessarily the same thing...

 

[tpaulus_2]

And also, also, several of the guards you listed as better than Sims are making more $$, but were "ranked" as worse on that BR piece... Should they all be cut, too, since they didn't rank out as highly last year as they have for the rest of their careers? The answer is no, because teams evaluate players and make those kind of decisions based on far more than just a player's level of play from the prior season...

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Ranked 49th in 2013.
This is bleacher report we're talking about, not exactly a comprehensive ranking. I linked that article because it specifically had the phrase "still a pretty good guard" in their summary.

This was specifically one of the things I wanted to address but could not verify demonstratively that you had previously disparaged Bleacher Report. But perhaps you remember recently saying this.......

Again, how do you call yourself a realist, when I point to Sims' ratings and rankings, and you counter with stuff like this? This isn't reality, this is you projecting nonsense exaggerations because I'm putting up a stiff counter argument.

How stiff is that arguement now? With the first post I quoted you just discredited the very source for which you alledged factual evidence as to why Sims is an above average G. Like you typically do you saw someone (me) saying something that wasnt a glowing post on a Lions player you view differently and off you go pulling out that "realist" jab. Here is another one for you............

I honestly don't think all of our players are awesome, that's just something the "realist" segment likes to lump on anyone who has the audacity speak up when a player is being trashed without merit.

I don't recall trashing Sims without merit. I suggested that releasing a player I view as average for the cap savings that could be rolled over into the following season was an option and would benefit the Lions next year. That is an opinion, it was never stated as a fact nor a without merit bashing.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Also, are we talking "average" as in his level of play, or "average" as in his ranking among his peers? Not necessarily the same thing...

Huh??

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

And also, also, several of the guards you listed as better than Sims are making more $$, but were "ranked" as worse on that BR piece... Should they all be cut, too, since they didn't rank out as highly last year as they have for the rest of their careers? The answer is no, because teams evaluate players and make those kind of decisions based on far more than just a player's level of play from the prior season...

I'm not talking about other teams and their roster and cap decisions, I'm talking about the Lions. We have cap issues, I consider Sims to be an average player, and there are benefits to his release and risks in trying to keep him. So my opinion was the Lions should release him.

What other teams choose to do with poor performing players that are being well paid is up to them. Might some of those players be cut as business decisions? Of course they might, that is the business side of the NFL.

Now you are going to tell me how teams evaluate their players? That's priceless. Where are you getting that inside information.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I'm not talking about other teams and their roster and cap decisions, I'm talking about the Lions. We have cap issues, I consider Sims to be an average player, and there are benefits to his release and risks in trying to keep him. So my opinion was the Lions should release him.

What other teams choose to do with poor performing players that are being well paid is up to them. Might some of those players be cut as business decisions? Of course they might, that is the business side of the NFL.

Now you are going to tell me how teams evaluate their players? That's priceless. Where are you getting that inside information.

I don't see where I'm telling you how other teams evaluate their players, aside from a little common sense in that the previous year's play is not the only factor to consider when deciding whether or not to cut a guy...

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

I don't see where I'm telling you how other teams evaluate their players, aside from a little common sense in that the previous year's play is not the only factor to consider when deciding whether or not to cut a guy...

because teams evaluate players and make those kind of decisions based on far more than just a player's level of play from the prior season...

You have no idea as to the process teams go through in evaluating the roster decisions they make. You have your opinion which you are stating as if its a fact.

A team that looks at a players poor performance from the previous year and feels that player has lost a step could most certainly use that as the sole criteria for releasing a player. Point is that you have absolutely no idea what the thinking behind the release might be unless you are a part of the group making that decison.

I'm tired of arguing about this. I stand by my first statement that releasing Sims would help the Lions, that he is an average player, and this team is going to stay right square in cap hell and be at a competitive disadvantage to teams that are run better.

 

[tpaulus_2]

And I'll stand by my statement that Sims is an above-average guard, who, with his 23 ranked salary at the position is paid right about what he's worth.


From a purely business standpoint, you're absolutely right- cutting Sims would helps the Lions.


From an overall football standpoint, we'd be taking a huge risk.


Who knows, maybe Rodney Austin beats him out fair and square in camp and we can release him with far less worry, or possibly even get a late round pick for him...

 

[broncosmitty]

Is there an opening for a Big LaR from BB_72


Did you miss me Smitty ?

Yes! Id been wondering where you were.....

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Is there an opening for a Big LaR from BB_72


Did you miss me Smitty ?

Yes! Id been wondering where you were.....

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I see absolutely no reason whatsoever to keep Suh at this point, after the upcoming season ends. Let him walk and take the lumps, get a 3rd round comp pick (GB and Bal do it well by letting players go). He's not the be all, end all, JMO. If he gets an extension, say for 5-6 yrs at an avg of 13.5 mil per yr and you add on that 22 mil cap hit for this yr, it simply puts this team into a much worse position $$$-wise than it already is. That money could be used better elsewhere, JMO.


And Fairley can walk too, even IF he has a lights out year. He'll most likely return to his normal, "I'll play when I feel like it. "


Mayhew could have addressed the DT issue by drafting "Aaron Donald". the Rams sure as hell didn't need a DT but they were smart enough to see his potential versus a GM drafting another highly questionable hands TE. JMO.

 

[tpaulus_2]

because teams evaluate players and make those kind of decisions based on far more than just a player's level of play from the prior season...

You have no idea as to the process teams go through in evaluating the roster decisions they make. You have your opinion which you are stating as if its a fact.

A team that looks at a players poor performance from the previous year and feels that player has lost a step could most certainly use that as the sole criteria for releasing a player. Point is that you have absolutely no idea what the thinking behind the release might be unless you are a part of the group making that decison.

I'm tired of arguing about this. I stand by my first statement that releasing Sims would help the Lions, that he is an average player, and this team is going to stay right square in cap hell and be at a competitive disadvantage to teams that are run better.

Ahh sweet victory!

 

[Old Lion]

I don't think releasing Sims is a bad idea. We have Austin and Swanson. Those guys will be starting in the next year or 2 anyway. It would make us a little thin in the middle this year though.


I am withholding judgement on whether we need to resign Suh. I need to see Austins new system first. Not sure how important a DT will be in it. It is possible we may not need a $100 mil DT to be successful on defense even with our CB issues.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Ahh sweet victory!

How come the Lions havent extended your above average player who wants to be here and will sign a cap friendly deal? You seem to have ignored that question.

I wonder if the Lions dont see him as the player that you do. It makes perfect sense to have extended him already otherwise. Unless you have some other reason as to why they shouldnt have.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Lol, figured you'd like that.


As for why they haven't extended Sims- who knows? Maybe they want him to play out this year to see if last season's dip in his performance is the start of a decline, or just a one year regression? Maybe they want to see what Rodney Austin does in camp and preseason this summer before they decide which of the two they want to hitch their wagon to?

 

[gandydancer]

And I'll stand by my statement that Sims is an above-average guard, who, with his 23 ranked salary at the position is paid right about what he's worth.


From a purely business standpoint, you're absolutely right- cutting Sims would helps the Lions.


From an overall football standpoint, we'd be taking a huge risk.


Who knows, maybe Rodney Austin beats him out fair and square in camp and we can release him with far less worry, or possibly even get a late round pick for him...

Would this prove the last 2 days as useless debating on your part?

 

[tpaulus_2]

Would this prove the last 2 days as useless debating on your part?

Not at all. If he gets beat out by a better player in camp that's a whole different animal than cutting him for non-performance-related reasons.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

As for why they haven't extended Sims- who knows? Maybe they want him to play out this year to see if last season's dip in his performance is the start of a decline, or just a one year regression? Maybe they want to see what Rodney Austin does in camp and preseason this summer before they decide which of the two they want to hitch their wagon to?

I thought he was an above average guard? Why would a team let a quality player move closer and closer to being an UFA and not only risk losing him or having to pay much more should he have a good season.

While I am not a part of the roster making decision process I feel pretty darn confident that teams do not cut above average players who are very reasonably compensated. Nor do those players lose their spots to 3rd round rookies or a two year practice squad player. That has been your aggressive arguement. And certainly when that above average player is on record as saying he wants to stay with the team and isnt looking for a top dollar new deal those players get extensions.

However, the average player who is overpaid does not get a contract extension. Those are the players who get released every single year on every single team and are replaced by rookies and former practice squad guys.

If Sims is an above average player as you have contended and the Lions are managed by highly qualified and knowledgable people with jobs that couldn't done by the average Joe, as you have also argued, wouldnt it most certainly appear that either the Lions dont view him as above average or that mgmt are a bunch of idiots? Would you please pick one or come up with a better justification as to why he hasnt been extended than you previously gave?

What you put forth in that response effectively supported my case which also very clearly stated that either Austin or Swanson would need to step into that role. I could have sworn you said that you don't cut a guy one year removed from being one of the best in the league at his position. Yeah, here that is........

If he gives us a second consecutive year of average and the coaches think Austin or Swanson are ready to step in, that's when you make the change, not one season remove from him being one of the best in the league at his position. That's jumping the gun at it's finest right there.

Now you would be ready to cut him cause this above average player, only recently one of the best in the league, might be beaten out for the spot by a rookie or practice squad player? Would you be so good as to pick a stance and stay with it instead of flopping back and forth like a fish out of water.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I don't think releasing Sims is a bad idea. We have Austin and Swanson. Those guys will be starting in the next year or 2 anyway. It would make us a little thin in the middle this year though.


I am withholding judgement on whether we need to resign Suh. I need to see Austins new system first. Not sure how important a DT will be in it. It is possible we may not need a $100 mil DT to be successful on defense even with our CB issues.

Austin has had 2 training camps to date so it's either a make or break year for him. Mayhew and Schwartz surely had a lot of positive things to say about him during those 2 camps. If he proves himself to be worthy of starting at LG this year then the proper business decision is cutting Sims loose. The cap savings can go forward to 2015.

Maybe Sims is on a decline or maybe his prior good play was due to having a seasoned vet like Backus next to him, IDK. The other side of the coin might simply be the fact that Reiff and him have yet to iron out any chemistry, ie. properly reading what the defense shows pre-snap and how they are going to attack individual assignments from there. once again IDK.

I'd rather see Austin move into that starting role at LG, if he's ready, to complete 4/5 of the O-line transition now, while giving Swanson the time needed to learn from Raiola on how to diagnose reads and make the proper line calls in order to become the qb of the line (Center).

 

[tpaulus_2]

I thought he was an above average guard? Why would a team let a quality player move closer and closer to being an UFA and not only risk losing him or having to pay much more should he have a good season.

While I am not a part of the roster making decision process I feel pretty darn confident that teams do not cut above average players who are very reasonably compensated. Nor do those players lose their spots to 3rd round rookies or a two year practice squad player. That has been your aggressive arguement. And certainly when that above average player is on record as saying he wants to stay with the team and isnt looking for a top dollar new deal those players get extensions.

However, the average player who is overpaid does not get a contract extension. Those are the players who get released every single year on every single team and are replaced by rookies and former practice squad guys.

If Sims is an above average player as you have contended and the Lions are managed by highly qualified and knowledgable people with jobs that couldn't done by the average Joe, as you have also argued, wouldnt it most certainly appear that either the Lions dont view him as above average or that mgmt are a bunch of idiots? Would you please pick one or come up with a better justification as to why he hasnt been extended than you previously gave?

What you put forth in that response effectively supported my case which also very clearly stated that either Austin or Swanson would need to step into that role. I could have sworn you said that you don't cut a guy one year removed from being one of the best in the league at his position. Yeah, here that is........



Now you would be ready to cut him cause this above average player, only recently one of the best in the league, might be beaten out for the spot by a rookie or practice squad player? Would you be so good as to pick a stance and stay with it instead of flopping back and forth like a fish out of water.

Just because I think he's an above-average guard doesn't mean that he can't still be beat out by a younger player.

That's not flopping back and fourth at all. Why is it that the realist camp seems to take such hard-line stances and rely so much on an either-or argument all the time? There's not necessarily a singular right answer to this one, or most of the debates we have. The majority of this stuff is completely subjective, yet from my perspective you're trying to take a grey issue and paint it black and white. There's a lot of variables and moving parts here, and for my money I simply don't see cutting Sims as a wise move right now- at least wait till training camp to see what unfolds. That extra $1.5 million in saving we're talking about is better spent right now, imo, ensuring that we'll have at least one quality option at LG without having to rely on the "what-ifs" of an inexperienced player at the position...