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ALL THINGS SUH

Rollingthndr

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So it makes it easier for the Lions to give Suh the monster deal while the teams who have managed their cap better have more $ to add additional talent through FA. Does this help the team actually get better? Other than whoever we draft we will put pretty much the same team on the field as last year.

Yeah so they have more cap space, to what... Sign secondary players? FA is about 95% ROLE PLAYERS. Franchise players almost never hit the open market. The last ones that I can remember was Peyton Manning and Julius Peppers. Both were past their primes. Fact is, Suh is probably not going anywhere.
 

jalopy

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I believe we only have 3 mil in cap space right now, and put aside the hopeful Suh extension for the moment. It will take just about 6 mil for our draft if I'm not mistaken. Replacing Pettigrew, Burly and Delmas will still be costly no matter how you break it down. It's not like we're going to save 10 mil in cap space signing SUH.... Now if the rumors that the cap this year is 130 mil then that gives us approx. 7 mil before whatever happens to SUH. I think people in general assume that it's easy to replace players on the cheap and also find the money to do that.

I agree completely, I don't know the cap numbers exactly but I think we would have a tad more if Pettigrew is not re-signed. Suh is currently costing $22MM+ against the cap and it would be great to get that number down to $15-16MM. If the Lions feel comfortable going with Kellen Moore as a backup, not signing Shaun Hill would save another $2MM or so. The cash is there to do some things but you are correct in saying that fans expectations of what those $$$$'s will get is unrealistic.
 

jalopy

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Yeah so they have more cap space, to what... Sign secondary players? FA is about 95% ROLE PLAYERS. Franchise players almost never hit the open market. The last ones that I can remember was Peyton Manning and Julius Peppers. Both were past their primes. Fact is, Suh is probably not going anywhere.

Detroit Lions Salary Cap - 2014 Breakdown

Assuming a $130MM salary cap, the Lions have $7.7MM to play with before the Suh restructure.
I'm not sure how much the Lions have to allocate to newly drafted rookies but it won't leave them with much.
 

Gulf of Brazil

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Detroit Lions Salary Cap - 2014 Breakdown

Assuming a $130MM salary cap, the Lions have $7.7MM to play with before the Suh restructure.
I'm not sure how much the Lions have to allocate to newly drafted rookies but it won't leave them with much.

Exactly what I was relaying to you in my earlier posts. And the rookies will take up approx. 6 mil if my memory serves me right
 

themuzzer

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Didn't Suh give 1m or 2mil to Nebraska after signing his rookie contract? What happened to that guy? That sounded like a guy that was humble and not all about the money......If he tries to r*pe the Lions contractually then you know what kind of guy the NFL and Jay-Z have made him and I don't think I want that.

I want guys that want championships over money.
 

LPinSLC

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Didn't Suh give 1m or 2mil to Nebraska after signing his rookie contract? What happened to that guy? That sounded like a guy that was humble and not all about the money......If he tries to r*pe the Lions contractually then you know what kind of guy the NFL and Jay-Z have made him and I don't think I want that.

I want guys that want championships over money.

As a fan sure. The NFL is a business though. Players in their prime want to compensated according to value. Can't say I'd blame him.
 

jdwills126

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As a fan sure. The NFL is a business though. Players in their prime want to compensated according to value. Can't say I'd blame him.

I agree.

It's Suh's leaving his agents for Jay Z that bothers me. Jay Z needs to make a splash after getting his ass kicked by the Yankees. I think the Lions may be that ass!
 

VulturesRule

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It's Suh's leaving his agents for Jay Z that bothers me. Jay Z needs to make a splash after getting his ass kicked by the Yankees. I think the Lions may be that ass!

I believe Suh graduated with a Civil Engineering degree. He's smart enough to make his own decisions and savvy enough to get a front man to be his foil. Jay Z's agency can't afford to screw the pooch a second time, and I doubt Suh has any qualms about firing this agency, too, if he suspects they're incompetent.
 

jayfan

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Didn't Suh give 1m or 2mil to Nebraska after signing his rookie contract? What happened to that guy? That sounded like a guy that was humble and not all about the money......If he tries to r*pe the Lions contractually then you know what kind of guy the NFL and Jay-Z have made him and I don't think I want that.

I want guys that want championships over money.

I think you mean loyalty over money. If he really wants championships over money, he probably ain't signing here!
 

HaroldSeattle

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Great thread. Interesting to see the debate about Suh. Seahawks are going to have the same kind of problem with R. Sherman and Thomas.
 

jalopy

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Great thread. Interesting to see the debate about Suh. Seahawks are going to have the same kind of problem with R. Sherman and Thomas.
I don't think there are many parallels between the two situations. What frustrates Lions fans (at least this one) is that, after years of cellar dwelling, the Lions finally were gaining momentum because of successful draft picks. Yes, they were high draft picks but they were the type that Detroit had screwed up in the past. Getting Stafford, Calvin and Suh was going to be the building block Detroit could build on for a decade. Then the team had the rug pulled out from underneath them when the NFLPA negotiated the new agreement and the assets quickly became a liability. The way that contracts were structured under the old rookie format pretty much doomed the team. Not only were they saddled with the high costs of players that, if drafted only a few years later would have cost less than half as much, but the "Franchise tag" rules also changed as well. The trio's contracts were backloaded and when the rule was changed so that players franchised had to receive at least a 20% raise meant the team was behind the eight ball. The franchise tag was no longer an option in keeping the players and it cost the team significant in re-negotiating contracts.
No, I applaud the Seahawks for drafting well and getting cheap assets but the situations are not similar in any way.
 

TrustMeIamRight

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The NFL is a business though. Players in their prime want to compensated according to value.

Agreed. Suh's value is that of one of the top DT, which equates to roughly 10-11 million dollars a year. If the conversation goes up to the 14, 15, 16 million dollar mark -- you are grossly overpaying a player at his position.

We will find out soon enough what Suh is all about. Atkin's has put up better numbers than Suh and he signed for 10.665. Atkin's didn't have the luxury of a record rookie contract, as Suh had. Suh already has more money than he could possibly spend, so if he truly wants to be a Lion and wants to help the Lions continue to get better -- His asking price won't be the absurd amounts of 14-16 million a year many of us believe he will ask for.

Only time will tell. I just don't want the Lions to handcuff themselves by paying a DT the kind of money you give to lock down CBs or dominate DE's.
 

LPinSLC

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Agreed. Suh's value is that of one of the top DT, which equates to roughly 10-11 million dollars a year. If the conversation goes up to the 14, 15, 16 million dollar mark -- you are grossly overpaying a player at his position.

We will find out soon enough what Suh is all about. Atkin's has put up better numbers than Suh and he signed for 10.665. Atkin's didn't have the luxury of a record rookie contract, as Suh had. Suh already has more money than he could possibly spend, so if he truly wants to be a Lion and wants to help the Lions continue to get better -- His asking price won't be the absurd amounts of 14-16 million a year many of us believe he will ask for.

Only time will tell. I just don't want the Lions to handcuff themselves by paying a DT the kind of money you give to lock down CBs or dominate DE's.

From a business perspective, you're worth what someone will pay. Market value is merely common ground for negotiations to begin.
 

Microwahevo

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Atkin's has put up better numbers than Suh
Atkins:136 comb tackles, 29 sacks, 6FF, 2Fum rec, 5 PD
Suh:186 comb tackles, 27.5 sacks, 2FF, 1fum rec, 12 PD, 1 int.

Has he really put up better numbers? I'd say they're pretty equal. Nothing really stands out and screams "he's better" based on their career totals. One leads in certain categories while the other leads in others.
 

Microwahevo

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Ndamukong Suh of Detroit Lions expected to sign contract extension - ESPN

Looks like a contract extension may get done soon. Mayhew has stated he'd like to get it done around the start of FA. But he isn't too concerned if it doesn't happen ASAP. He said there's no real danger of a cap crunch if it doesn't happen right away.

Also, it is even verified if Suh has signed with Roc Nation for contract negotiations or just marketing as Suh hasn't even named who his new agent is. Roc Nation has only one certified NFL contract negotiator to date, and her only client is Geno Smith. So she's basically an inexperienced one. Not saying he couldn't work out a great deal through them, but it is hardly guaranteed like it's being reported by many on is board.
 

gvsulaker82

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Didn't Suh give 1m or 2mil to Nebraska after signing his rookie contract? What happened to that guy? That sounded like a guy that was humble and not all about the money......If he tries to r*pe the Lions contractually then you know what kind of guy the NFL and Jay-Z have made him and I don't think I want that.

I want guys that want championships over money.

Do you have any sources that hes going to r*pe the lions? Just wondering because I havent seen his asking price yet. So if you havent isnt it a bit early to judge him, and if you have I apologize. He deserves to be paid, especially being one of the best just hitting his prime. Now if hes asking for 50 percent more than atkins I agree with you.
 

gvsulaker82

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Article today on nbc indicates the lions are for sure planning on extending him before free agency starts which I believe is the 11th. It is really the only possible solution financially and as lions fans we can only hope suh takes the going rate.
 

gvsulaker82

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I agree.

It's Suh's leaving his agents for Jay Z that bothers me. Jay Z needs to make a splash after getting his ass kicked by the Yankees. I think the Lions may be that ass!

Im not sure why that bothers people, maybe his agent sucked or they had a falling out? Why does everyone seem to hate jay z so much and think suh is just in it for the money because he switched agents?
 

gvsulaker82

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So it makes it easier for the Lions to give Suh the monster deal while the teams who have managed their cap better have more $ to add additional talent through FA. Does this help the team actually get better? Other than whoever we draft we will put pretty much the same team on the field as last year.

Except that right now the defense is clearly not as good since we've gone from Delmas to Don Carey and lord only knows who replaces Burleson or the future of Pettigrew.

Am I really the only one who as of now, obviously the draft hasnt happened yet so its early, but who thinks this team could very easily enter the season looking to be in worse shape than it ended last season? I certainly cant see us adding any type of talent that can replace what is curerntly gone other than how good the draft goes in an attempt to fill the gaping holes, let alone actually improve upon them.

If we cant resign Pettigrew (I dont think we can) we will be weaker at TE. If we draft Dennard we hopefully get better at CB but he is a rookie and its pretty much agreed upon that rookie CB's struggle early on. Can a third or fourth round S be an improvement over Delmas? I doubt that so we drop off at that spot. Improvement (hopefully) at CB but weaker at S, is that a wash?

I dont relish the role of being negative (another apology shout out to TrustMe for the crap he took last offseason) but I have no problem being called a realist and realistically I'm looking for ways to us improve enough to truly be a contender. People cant honestly think we can stand with the Hawks, Niners, Panthers, Packers, Saints. I'd put us more in line with perhaps Philly, Cards, Bears, and probably the Rams after they add two more first rounders.

Not sure how a little more cap room helps us other than we might not have to cut guys like Hilliard, Palmer, Leshoure, etc. Maybe if they do get a Suh deal done and shove those astronomical cap hits back we might have some $ this year. Where would you spend it?


It really just depends on the draft in my opinion. Im usually not very optimistic about the lions but ill reserve judgement until after the draft. Hey, akers wont be back, thats a good thing. Delmas may be back if they retain him at a cheaper price, burleson is washed up and they needed a second wideout anyhow. They had an excellent draft last year and if they have another one couple with stafford playing like the 2011 stafford anything can happen.
 
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