ALL THINGS SUH

[Gulf of Brazil]

Everyone in here might as well look at the Lions being in a go for broke mode over the next 3 years. Mayhew will make sure to re-sign Suh (5 years 70 mil approx., or close to it). Then all you have to do is consider the facts from a player personnel standpoint and Salary Cap issues. Mayhew and Lewand have done the dumb and dumber duo for 5 years already as Pres./GM and will get another 3 years along with Caldwell and his coaching staff. Assuming Suh extends, J. Bell gets his contract, the Lions have until 2016 to get to the Super-Bowl. CJ will be 31 at the end of that season and his cap hit for 2017 will be 21+ mil or you release him for 4.857 mil cap hit (that's a lot of coin so the smart business decision is to release him no matter what). We have most of our key pieces in place until then (in some cases only thru 2015) Staff, CJ, Reiff, Warford, Waddle, Bush, Bell, Suh, Fairley, Ansah, Taylor, Tulloch, Levy, Houston, Slay, Quin... So in essence there is no way in hell dumb and dumber should extend Staff or CJ between now and 2016 and make matters worse. Caldwell will have been given 3 years to win at that point in time, which is enough time, and Mayhew and Lewand would have finished their 8th year together...If this team has gotten it done by then, you cut bait with CJ and Staff....JMO...


Hopefully Mayhew hits on his first 3 rounds of picks these next 3 years but looking at his past drafts, I think 2013 was more luck than anything else as 1st round and 3rd thru 5th round picks all had an impact and that hasn't been the norm for him.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

How many years do you guys think CJ realistically has left? 2? 3? 4 tops? At some point he is gone. Do we agree the Lions are ok this year when they re-sign Suh?

If they traded Suh, EVERYTHING this franchise sold you about winning this year is gone. You guys know that, right.

Rob - EVERYONE would want Suh back if he would sign a fair market contract. Do you want the Lions to give him a contract making him the highest paid defensive player in the NFL? Those are the fears of the fans who are speaking up about trading him right now. It has nothing to do with his talent, as I've said numerous times.

If Suh was a DE who was racking up 15-20 sacks a year -- I'd have no problem giving him a monster deal. If Suh was a CB who locked down half the field to the point teams don't even want to throw the ball his way -- I'd have no problem giving him a monster deal. The position he plays HAS to come into play when talking about his contract extension. Detroit can't hand him 15, 16, 17 million a year, when the next highest paid player at his position makes 10.665 million a year and that player has been more productive than Suh in less game played.

I will be the 1st to say -- if Suh will take the exact same contract he signed as a rookie, thus making him the highest paid player at his position still -- I hope the Lions do it in a heartbeat. If he starts asking for 4, 5, 6 million more per year over his rookie deal -- It will completely kill the team going forward.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

That is also the same reason why resigning Suh is a good idea, elite player with elite work ethic. What more do you want out of your highest paid players?

Detroit should make Suh the highest paid DT. The only problem Detroit has is -- HE ALREADY IS the highest paid DT because of his rookie contract. Offer Suh the same contract and hope he accepts. If you go up to 70 million over 5 years -- that is actually 80 million when you add in the cap hit rolled over. That means over the next 5 years -- Suh will be taking up 5 million more in cap space than the next highest paid DT. That is crazy.

To put it in perspective -- Darrell Revis makes 13 million a year. Is Suh more valuable than a shut down CB?

 

[RobBase]

Suh is a million times better than Revis, who isn't a shut down corner anymore. Tampa really botched trading for him and that's why their GM was fired.

Yes, I expect Suh will be paid as the highest D player in the league and yes he is worth every penny. He makes everyone on the defense better. If the Lions get even ONE capable CB in this draft, the defense is set.

We also have our QB and his top target. What more do we need? We have Ansah for 3 more years before he needs to resign. Fairley won't command a contract so large we can't resign him.

Where do you guys want to throw all this extra money? We have the pieces to win with him. We need the coaching, not a bunch of other players to replace him.

 

[Valion78]

My first thought when asking what compensation would be was trade him to the Bills. Schwartz would surely want him for his scheme and we could probably get their Second rounder this year and their First next year. Eating the dead money would suck but once this season is done the road ahead looks brighter.

I love Suh and won't be upset if he is resigned, but how effective was our D line this season? We didn't have a huge amount of sacks. We were good against the run. We played against a few teams whose O lines were having horrible seasons and nearly every one of them stepped up against us.

 

[jalopy]

Suh is a million times better than Revis, who isn't a shut down corner anymore. Tampa really botched trading for him and that's why their GM was fired.

Yes, I expect Suh will be paid as the highest D player in the league and yes he is worth every penny. He makes everyone on the defense better. If the Lions get even ONE capable CB in this draft, the defense is set.

We also have our QB and his top target. What more do we need? We have Ansah for 3 more years before he needs to resign. Fairley won't command a contract so large we can't resign him.

Where do you guys want to throw all this extra money? We have the pieces to win with him. We need the coaching, not a bunch of other players to replace him.

RB, you realize you are talking about a team that didn't even make the playoffs, right. It's not like they are one piece of the puzzle away from winning it all. Granted, they have top 10 physical talent but are a little short between the ears. I like Suh on the field and he seems like an intelligent guy off the field but he has done some bonehead things.
The fact is his contract status make him untradeable and, for PR reasons, he can't be released so that team has to succumb to his demands (mostly). The team isn't in horrible position if someone can coach these knuckleheads into a team.

 

[lionstop1]

I think Atkins might be better. Revis was better when he was healthy. He shut down half the field. Thats my opinion though.

I'm surprised that nobody seems to care about the fate of other players on this team. Signing Suh to huge money wont allow the Lions to pay some of the other top positions that they are currently paying a fairly low amount for. Im talking about DE and OT.

 

[lionstop1]

Packers, Bears and the Vikings will be building their teams while the Lions will be depending on 3 players. Packers have 30 mfn million bucks to spend with a healthy Rodgers coming back. Smh

 

[gvsulaker82]

RB, you realize you are talking about a team that didn't even make the playoffs, right. It's not like they are one piece of the puzzle away from winning it all. Granted, they have top 10 physical talent but are a little short between the ears. I like Suh on the field and he seems like an intelligent guy off the field but he has done some bonehead things.
The fact is his contract status make him untradeable and, for PR reasons, he can't be released so that team has to succumb to his demands (mostly). The team isn't in horrible position if someone can coach these knuckleheads into a team.

I think they are a lot closer to being a contender than you think..and Im known around here for being negative.

 

[gvsulaker82]

I think Atkins might be better. Revis was better when he was healthy. He shut down half the field. Thats my opinion though.

I'm surprised that nobody seems to care about the fate of other players on this team. Signing Suh to huge money wont allow the Lions to pay some of the other top positions that they are currently paying a fairly low amount for. Im talking about DE and OT.

I cant speak for anyone else, but Im always concerned. Unfortunately the lions are in a lose lose situation and the only reality here is that they need to hit their draft picks regardless of if they sign suh to an extension. If they dont sign suh they will be rebuilding when he leaves and if they do sign him they will be rebuilding many other positions they cant afford.

 

[RobBase]

Packers, Bears and the Vikings will be building their teams while the Lions will be depending on 3 players. Packers have 30 mfn million bucks to spend with a healthy Rodgers coming back. Smh

Try to remember this please, because it's been repeated several times. Your Packer argument doesn't work.

Your Packer argument doesn't work because they currently have the highest paid O player in the NFL and the 3rd highest D player in the NFL.

They have 30 million in cap space because they know how to draft in later rounds. We tried to talk about this earlier in the year and even supported it with a Lions draft vs. Packers draft ESPN analysis, and fans here didn't want to hear it. Nobody drafts well in late rounds they said. Well, the Packers do.

Looking closer at Martin Mayhew's drafts - Detroit Lions Blog - ESPN

So what I decided to do is draw up a comparison between the Lions/Mayhew and the team that most NFL observers consider the most draft-driven in the league...the Green Bay Packers

• The Packers' roster as of Sunday morning includes 26 of the 44 players they drafted between 2009-2013. That does not include two first-round picks, lineman Bryan Bulaga and Derek Sherrod, who are on various injury-related lists. Still, that's 59 percent. The Lions' percentage on the 21-of-38 figure is 55.2 percent.
• The Packers' likely 24-man starting lineup (including kickers) features 11 players Thompson has drafted in the past five years. (Seven more were drafted between 2005-08.) The Lions' likely lineup also includes 11 Mayhew draft picks. (Two others were drafted before 2009.)
• So in total, regardless of time period, the Packers drafted 18 of their 24 starters. The Lions have drafted 13.
• The Packers' 53-man roster includes a total of 34 players they once drafted. That works out to 64 percent. The Lions' includes 23, or 42 percent.

 

[tpaulus_2]

And nobody is truly wanting to trade him for the sake of trading him. It's a topic for discussion because paying him such an astronomical premium (50%+) to the next All-Pro DT's contract is simply not realistic without absolutely hurting the team in the long run.

Where on Earth is that figure coming from? You really think his camp would even consider asking for 50% over what Atkins just signed for last year? No offense, but that's nuts. We're already talking huge salary figures here, no need to try to add fuel to the fire by throwing out grossly inflated estimates of how much he will want. Of course Suh will get more than Atkins did, that's how the industry works, but a 50% jump is way beyond what is reasonable...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Suh is a million times better than Revis, who isn't a shut down corner anymore. Tampa really botched trading for him and that's why their GM was fired.

U are missing my point. When Revis signed his contract, he was far and away the best CB in the NFL. He makes 13 million a year. Are you saying Suh deserves a contract that would pay him 20% more than the highest paid CB in the league?

If Suh was a shut down CB -- I'd be all for breaking the bank to keep him. If he was DE who was getting 15-20 sacks year after year -- I'd be all for breaking the bank to keep him.

He play DT though and you don't make a DT the highest paid defensive player in the NFL, when arguably, he isn't the best DT in the NFL. Geno Atkins contract should be the type of contract Suh should be offered by the Lions.

I LOVE Suh and he is the last person on the Lions I would want to lose with the exception of Megatron, but if he wants a contract that would make him the highest paid defensive player in the NFL -- Detroit is going to suffer, as a team, if they do. I have no issue making him the highest paid DT. Give him another 5 year 60 million dollar deal. If it gets up to 70, 75 or 80 million -- they are grossly overpaying him.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Tpaul


Suh's rookie contract grossed 51.8 mil over a 4 year period, making him the most money ever for a rookie on avg during that 4 yr span.... Simple division means 51.8 divided by 4 = 12.950 mil per year avg... If you don't think he'll be seeking at LEAST the same avg per year, then we're nuts... This will be his 2nd contract and regardless of Atkins deal, Suh's agent will have a compelling argument in as to how vital he is for this defense. Too many avenue's to state as everyone in this forum knows already

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Of course Suh will get more than Atkins did, that's how the industry works, but a 50% jump is way beyond what is reasonable...

I think the number he is coming up with has to do with, not only the fact Suh is still playing on a contract where he is making over 12 million a year from his rookie deal. Atkins just signed his deal and I believe it was for 10.665 million a year over 5 years. So right there is 15% jump over Atkins and we haven't even talked the extension yet.

If the Lions give him a 20% raise to 5 years 72 million -- That is now 35% over what Atkins is getting. When you add in the addition cap hit (the 9.8 million carried over the 5 years, so almost 2 million more a year) -- that puts Suh at over 50% higher than what the Bengals are paying Atkins.

If you looks at the stats between the two players -- Atkins was drafted the same year, I believe, and has more sacks and tackles in less games. So is Suh worth a contract where he'd have a cap hit of 16, 17, 18 million a year, when the next highest at his position is slightly less than 11 million?

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Where on Earth is that figure coming from? You really think his camp would even consider asking for 50% over what Atkins just signed for last year? No offense, but that's nuts. We're already talking huge salary figures here, no need to try to add fuel to the fire by throwing out grossly inflated estimates of how much he will want. Of course Suh will get more than Atkins did, that's how the industry works, but a 50% jump is way beyond what is reasonable...

Did you even read the fucking thread before you came on here popping off and calling me nuts, throwing fuel on the fire, and using grossly inflated numbers? You know me well enough, am I likely to respond well to that?

The entire thread is about Suh being paid as the highest paid defensive player in the league. It's been said about 1000 times on this and other threads. I didn't just grab that out of my ass in an effort to sensationalize my post, it was put forth by others. I had nothing to do with where it came from.

The highest paid defensive player in the league is a $16m/yr deal for Mario Williams. So if I need to take you back to second grade math here you go. If Atkins deal averages $10.67m/yr and the talk is Suh at $16m/yr that is a 50% premium. Buy a calculator before you blast me next time.

You might be the only person who doesn't think that Suh and his agent will ask for $16m/yr+. He owns the Lions right now and has every bit of leverage to get himself that type of contract. That has been the debate here for about 10 pages as to whether or not he's worth it and what other options the Lions might have.

 

[themuzzer]

Ouch. Glad others are doing the math......I just continue to say we can't afford him and not fuck up the rest of the roster.

Keep him and try and win it all fast then blow up the team, or get rid of him and the re-building just starts earlier.

 

[lionstop1]

Can anybody give any good reason why Suh wouldn't ask for 16 million or more? This is a business and the players understand that. How do you think Suh reacted when he saw what Megatron got? I'm pretty sure he couldn't wait for his turn.

Can anyone give a good reason why Suh would settle for the same contract he already has? I can see Suh thinking along the same lines as the fans- he's the best defensive player in the league.

 

[jalopy]

Can anybody give any good reason why Suh wouldn't ask for 16 million or more? This is a business and the players understand that. How do you think Suh reacted when he saw what Megatron got? I'm pretty sure he couldn't wait for his turn.

Can anyone give a good reason why Suh would settle for the same contract he already has? I can see Suh thinking along the same lines as the fans- he's the best defensive player in the league.

Depends, the business part of me says that if I am Suh, I have the leverage and should put the screws to the Lions. The competitor part of me says that I have wanted dreamed of winning a championship since I was a child and I should be satisfied with fair market value if the Lions can show they will do everything possible to achieve that. In my opinion, they have tried to do that (and failed miserably).

 

[lionstop1]

Anybody think Mayhew is considering Caldwell's input on the situation?