All scores count

[SonnyCID]

Now, this is something that has been pissing me off. Why do people insist that only offensive touchdowns are the only scores that really matter and defensive scores, special teams scores and even some field goals are simply products of luck?

Let's look a little deeper look at Locketts punt return last Sunday...

The offense had a 9 minute drive that ended just outside of FG range... Ryan had a great punt to the 11.... A fresh defense forced a punt from the 1.... Touchdown! TEAM EFFORT!

 

[JMR]

The other part is, let's say TL hadn't made it to the end zone but got tackled at the 15 and the O punched it in for 6. Is that somewhow how more impressive of an offensive performance in the game?

Also, it isn't like our D scoring points is some freak thing. They have a track record of such plays. Lockett is building one as well.

 

[SonnyCID]

The other part is, let's say TL hadn't made it to the end zone but got tackled at the 15 and the O punched it in for 6. Is that somewhow how more impressive of an offensive performance in the game?

Also, it isn't like our D scoring points is some freak thing. They have a track record of such plays. Lockett is building one as well.

Great point jmr...

Should we also think less of offensive scores if good field position is set up by a return or turnover?

 

[JMR]

Btw, not sure if you guys caught it, but NFLN Gameday did a side-by-side of Tavon Austin and TL making their punt return TDs last week. They had Lockett at 21 mph, Austin at 19.

 

[MKHawk]

Because offensive touchdowns are more repeatable. That's just what the data says.

 

[SonnyCID]

Because offensive touchdowns are more repeatable. That's just what the data says.

The data also shows that teams that have favorable starting field position score at a higher rate of. And the higher scoring teams also have more FGs.

 

[MKHawk]

The data also shows that teams that have favorable starting field position score at a higher rate of. And the higher scoring teams also have more FGs.

Defensive and special teams touchdowns are just so much more dependent on factors the team has no (or very little) control of.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Now, this is something that has been pissing me off. Why do people insist that only offensive touchdowns are the only scores that really matter and defensive scores, special teams scores and even some field goals are simply products of luck?

Let's look a little deeper look at Locketts punt return last Sunday...

The offense had a 9 minute drive that ended just outside of FG range... Ryan had a great punt to the 11.... A fresh defense forced a punt from the 1.... Touchdown! TEAM EFFORT!

It's an excuse for the opposing teams fans to use when they lose by 8pts or less. This is the best part of the game because it's so unexpected and usually a back breaker to the oppossing team.

 

[SonnyCID]

Defensive and special teams touchdowns are just so much more dependent on factors the team has no (or very little) control of.

No, or very little control?

I disagree.

Obviously your offense is supposed to score points. But scoring in other ways is not just dumb chance. Field position, situational awareness, quality of defensive and STs effort. Like I explained with the Lockett punt return, they put themselves in position to make that play. And the same argument can be made for Williams scoop&score in the Rams game, 3Rd down, backed up against their endzone, a rare blitz. Field position was HUGE and really dictated both those plays. Not that they called them with the intent of scoring, but they set them up by managing the field position and taking advantage of repeated favorable opportunities that they created. This is why not every drive is a failure if you dont score. Call it luck if you want, but you know what they say, luck is at the crossroads of preparation and opportunity.

 

[MKHawk]

Right, and if the punter boots it out of bounds, Lockett can't score.

I'm not arguing that special teams aren't important, or that all 3 phases contribute to all points, no matter who punches the ball into the end zone. But that wasn't your initial question. It was,

"Why do people insist that only offensive touchdowns are the only scores that really matter and defensive scores, special teams scores and even some field goals are simply products of luck"

And the answer is, because defensive and special teams touchdowns aren't very repeatable or consistent, and are dependent on many more factors the team has zero control over.

 

[SonnyCID]

Right, and if the punter boots it out of bounds, Lockett can't score.

I'm not arguing that special teams aren't important, or that all 3 phases contribute to all points, no matter who punches the ball into the end zone. But that wasn't your initial question. It was,

"Why do people insist that only offensive touchdowns are the only scores that really matter and defensive scores, special teams scores and even some field goals are simply products of luck"

And the answer is, because defensive and special teams touchdowns aren't very repeatable or consistent, and are dependent on many more factors the team has zero control over.

You could say the same thing about turnovers. Hell, you could even say it about a lot of offensive scores(broken coverage, horrible tackling).

The fact is that if keep putting yourself in favorable positions, good things happen at a higher rate.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Defensive and special teams touchdowns are just so much more dependent on factors the team has no (or very little) control of.

Huh? So blocking and schemes on kick/punt returns has no impact... mentality for the defense to be aware of a turnover and push hard to go offensive has no impact?



I agree that defensive and special teams TDs are tough to RELY on to win games, but I wouldn't say they are dependent on factors the team has NO (or even very little) control of.

 

[MKHawk]

You could say the same thing about turnovers. Hell, you could even say it about a lot of offensive scores(broken coverage, horrible tackling).

The fact is that if keep putting yourself in favorable positions, good things happen at a higher rate.

Absolutely, and if you look, forced turnover numbers tend to vary pretty wildly year-to-year, even without much defensive roster turnover. Whereas offensive turnover numbers don't vary that much if the roster isn't churning.

 

[MKHawk]

Huh? So blocking and schemes on kick/punt returns has no impact... mentality for the defense to be aware of a turnover and push hard to go offensive has no impact?



I agree that defensive and special teams TDs are tough to RELY on to win games, but I wouldn't say they are dependent on factors the team has NO (or even very little) control of.

You can have the perfect blocking scheme set up for a kick/punt return...and the punter/kicker boots it out of play. It becomes literally impossible to score on that play.

I'm NOT saying the other parts of the team aren't important (critical, even) to putting up good scoring numbers. I'm NOT saying they can't contribute to high team scoring numbers. I am saying specifically that defensive and special teams scores cannot be relied upon as consistent parts of team scoring.

 

[SonnyCID]

You can have the perfect blocking scheme set up for a kick/punt return...and the punter/kicker boots it out of play. It becomes literally impossible to score on that play.

I'm NOT saying the other parts of the team aren't important (critical, even) to putting up good scoring numbers. I'm NOT saying they can't contribute to high team scoring numbers. I am saying specifically that defensive and special teams scores cannot be relied upon as consistent parts of team scoring.

I agree that they are not consistent ways to score. But they are often set up by playing disciplined field position football, thus results of what the team has done, and not blind luck. You brought up kicking oob, a punter will not kick oob from his endzone, unless they are absolutely horrified of a kick returner and willing to concede a handful of yards.

 

[JMR]

Being unpredictable doesn't make it a "product of luck."