All I can say is wow!!!

[TDs3nOut]

I get that part of it, but would have cared much that no longer had Moreno? I wouldn't have. I thought it was a mistake to draft him anyway, so cutting our losses and moving on at the time I don't think would have been viewed as a bad thing. Of course the other difference here is that the Browns have a new regime in place than the one that drafted Richardson. So I guess a better analogy would be Elway trading Moreno for a first round pick after his second season. I think we all would have been ok with that. Well, everyone except CALI anyway.

I've always thought that Moreno had great potential, though injuries, fumbling, and a sometimes very tentative running style have been frustrating at times. I think that Denver fans got pretty spoiled by late round RBs who had great success when Shanahan was our coach and that there was a lot of animosity toward the little fella who picked Moreno, so that pick was kind of unduly disliked from the beginning. In short, I've always considered myself a sort of "Moreno apologist", so, yeah, I would have cared if we traded Moreno after his first or second year.

 

[Broncos6482]

In short, I've always considered myself a sort of "Moreno apologist", so, yeah, I would have cared if we traded Moreno after his first or second year.

I guess that makes you and CALI the two guys then. Personally, while I've always felt that Moreno has gotten a bad rap (and I thought the people who thought the Broncos should just cut him were being ridiculous), up until he came back after the McGahee injury last year I would have gladly taken a mid first round pick for him. Heck, if someone offered the Broncos a mid first round pick for Moreno this offseason, I'd still probably take it!

 

[Morpheus]

I guess that makes you and CALI the two guys then. Personally, while I've always felt that Moreno has gotten a bad rap (and I thought the people who thought the Broncos should just cut him were being ridiculous), up until he came back after the McGahee injury last year I would have gladly taken a mid first round pick for him. Heck, if someone offered the Broncos a mid first round pick for Moreno this offseason, I'd still probably take it!

I have always held out that Moreno has a good upside and that he would factor in the Broncos offense, even before the season started when everyone said Hillman was #1, Ball #2 and Moreno mat not even make the roster.

 

[xBxtxDx]

I've always thought that Moreno had great potential, though injuries, fumbling, and a sometimes very tentative running style have been frustrating at times. I think that Denver fans got pretty spoiled by late round RBs who had great success when Shanahan was our coach and that there was a lot of animosity toward the little fella who picked Moreno, so that pick was kind of unduly disliked from the beginning. In short, I've always considered myself a sort of "Moreno apologist", so, yeah, I would have cared if we traded Moreno after his first or second year.

I would have been more upset about the waste of the pick. In those years, too many draft picks were wasted and the overall talent on the team was dwindling away and another waste of a first round pick probably sent me into a complete mental breakdown. Strangely enough though, our first round picks from the 2009 draft are the only ones that have managed to stick around.

I am also a Moreno apologist and more of one since he has started running harder. It is not his fault where the team drafted him, if he was selected in the 3rd or 4th round, most people would probably at least like him. Since he was a first round pick he is labeled a bust. Imho, since he is still with the team and still producing, he is not.

 

[Broncos6482]

I get what you guys are all saying, but let's not forget that just a year ago Moreno was thought so little of that he was inactive on game days and was running the scout team plays during the week in practice. Without the injury to McGahee, Moreno's career as a Bronco is probably over.

The point is, although we still think he can be productive, not even his biggest fans think he was worth a first round pick. I'm thinking that's what the Browns current regime thinks of Trent Richardson (and I agree with them, the way the NFL is now I would never draft a running back in the first round), but they found someone who obviously thinks he was worth a first round pick, so they traded him. Now they've got 2 first round picks next year, one which will probably be either first or second, the other probably around 20. Now they can get a qb in the first round that really can make a difference.

 

[Malibu]

The problem with the Browns is they are starting over it seems every year. Stick to a plan and go with it. Under new management I give it 3-4 years until they start over again.

 

[Malibu]

I get what you guys are all saying, but let's not forget that just a year ago Moreno was thought so little of that he was inactive on game days and was running the scout team plays during the week in practice. Without the injury to McGahee, Moreno's career as a Bronco is probably over.

The point is, although we still think he can be productive, not even his biggest fans think he was worth a first round pick. I'm thinking that's what the Browns current regime thinks of Trent Richardson (and I agree with them, the way the NFL is now I would never draft a running back in the first round), but they found someone who obviously thinks he was worth a first round pick, so they traded him. Now they've got 2 first round picks next year, one which will probably be either first or second, the other probably around 20. Now they can get a qb in the first round that really can make a difference.

A QB that can make a difference with a crap o line on the right side and no wr's and a capable RB.

 

[Broncos6482]

A QB that can make a difference with a crap o line on the right side and no wr's and a capable RB.

If the qb is good it won't matter. Look at Aaron Rodgers, he's had a bad line for years and he's consistently got the Packers as one of the top teams in the NFL.

The Browns can draft a qb with their pick, an offensive lineman or a receiver with the pick from the Colts, and pick up a running back that can duplicate Richardson's numbers in the late second or third round.

I just don't think Richardson is that special. I think the Browns made a good move.

 

[Broncosr0k]

The problem with the Browns is they are starting over it seems every year. Stick to a plan and go with it. Under new management I give it 3-4 years until they start over again.

The same with the raiders. They were rotating coaching staff quickly. Unfortunately cutting dead weight is only step 1. Step 2 needs to be bringing in talent. They had a chance a couple years ago when they traded their draft pick for several of the falcons when they wanted Julio Jones. Those chose poorly with those picks. If the browns can use these picks to finally get that QB of the future and a couple weapons for him it will finally get them competitive in the division.

Can the browns finally make some good personnel decisions? We will see but I think this works out for both teams (colts and browns) right now.

 

[xBxtxDx]

I get what you guys are all saying, but let's not forget that just a year ago Moreno was thought so little of that he was inactive on game days and was running the scout team plays during the week in practice. Without the injury to McGahee, Moreno's career as a Bronco is probably over.

The point is, although we still think he can be productive, not even his biggest fans think he was worth a first round pick. I'm thinking that's what the Browns current regime thinks of Trent Richardson (and I agree with them, the way the NFL is now I would never draft a running back in the first round), but they found someone who obviously thinks he was worth a first round pick, so they traded him. Now they've got 2 first round picks next year, one which will probably be either first or second, the other probably around 20. Now they can get a qb in the first round that really can make a difference.

I am not sure I agree completely on not drafting a RB first round, I believe in taking the best overall player at a position of need, especially in the first. If it so happens it is a RB, then so be it, he just may turn into the second coming of Barry Sanders, LT, Little, TD, Walter Peyton, AP, or Jim Brown (in other words, a game changer).

 

[BroncoInCALI]

Is this where I am supposed to come in and say "How do you expect Moreno to put up better numbers as a rookie with Kyle FREAKING Orton as the QB? lol

(I know we are not arguing Moreno's numbers. I was just feeling nostalgic for all of the arguing on the cbs boards. lol)

 

[Morpheus]

]I get what you guys are all saying, but let's not forget that just a year ago Moreno was thought so little of that he was inactive on game days and was running the scout team plays during the week in practice. Without the injury to McGahee, Moreno's career as a Bronco is probably over.[/B]

The point is, although we still think he can be productive, not even his biggest fans think he was worth a first round pick. I'm thinking that's what the Browns current regime thinks of Trent Richardson (and I agree with them, the way the NFL is now I would never draft a running back in the first round), but they found someone who obviously thinks he was worth a first round pick, so they traded him. Now they've got 2 first round picks next year, one which will probably be either first or second, the other probably around 20. Now they can get a qb in the first round that really can make a difference.

That was also after the DUI in the off season and McGahee was coming off the huge year in 2011 when Denver was the #1 rushing team in the NFL. He was in the doghouse with the team.

I heard an observation yesterday that made a lot of sense. Moreno running with the scout team actually made him a better running back since he ran a bunch of different styles of offense. It made him well versed in a number of different techniques and schemes and improved his pass blocking and decision making.

It is really showing. Being on the scout team may have been the best thing that happened to his career along with McGahee going down last season and him getting a shot to show his newly honed skills last season.

As someone else said already, you can't hold Moreno accountable for McDaniels taking him too high in the draft.

 

[TDs3nOut]

I am not sure I agree completely on not drafting a RB first round, I believe in taking the best overall player at a position of need, especially in the first. If it so happens it is a RB, then so be it, he just may turn into the second coming of Barry Sanders, LT, Little, TD, Walter Peyton, AP, or Jim Brown (in other words, a game changer).

Totally agree with that. People get the mistaken idea that because some RBs taken later in the draft have great success it means that using a first round pick on a RB is never worth it. That's too dogmatic. Too many good backs taken in the first for that to make any sense. For example, only last year three of the top five RBs in the league -- AP, Lynch, and Martin -- were first round picks. One of the five (Charles) was taken in the third and the fifth guy was taken in the 6th round (Morris, by Shanahan, of course!). If a guy is able to consistently get first round talent in the sixth round, then fine, but even Shanahan knew that a talent like Portis was worthy of a pick at the top of the second round. I know ... doesn't explain Tatum Bell!

 

[Morpheus]

Totally agree with that. People get the mistaken idea that because some RBs taken later in the draft have great success it means that using a first round pick on a RB is never worth it. That's too dogmatic. Too many good backs taken in the first for that to make any sense. For example, only last year three of the top five RBs in the league -- AP, Lynch, and Martin -- were first round picks. One of the five (Charles) was taken in the third and the fifth guy was taken in the 6th round (Morris, by Shanahan, of course!). If a guy is able to consistently get first round talent in the sixth round, then fine, but even Shanahan knew that a talent like Portis was worthy of a pick at the top of the second round. I know ... doesn't explain Tatum Bell!

Doug Martin is more recent, and has proven he is a 1st round talent, at least for last year.

But the others, Lynch, AP and others like Steven Jackson, Michael Turner have been in the league a few years and the climate is changing.


With the recent rule changes, throwing the football is more dominant.

You don't need a RB who carries 35+ times a game for 100 yards anymore. Hardly anyone can take that pounding and stay healthy.

You just need to sell the play action and have the threat of a run game to keep defenses honest.

Rotating 2 or 3 good backs from the 2nd or 3rd round is a lot easier on the salary cap and if one of them goes down you are not totally without any running game.

And Jackson and Turner have seen a drop in production lately. It is risky to take a RB in the first. How long will he play at a high level with 30+ carries a game and how much do you have to pay him as a 1st round pick?

Not worth it if you have a QB who can move the chains in the passing game.

 

[Broncos6482]

I heard an observation yesterday that made a lot of sense. Moreno running with the scout team actually made him a better running back since he ran a bunch of different styles of offense. It made him well versed in a number of different techniques and schemes and improved his pass blocking and decision making.

It is really showing. Being on the scout team may have been the best thing that happened to his career along with McGahee going down last season and him getting a shot to show his newly honed skills last season.

I was most impressed with Moreno's attitude about it. A lot of guys would have pouted, become a distraction, not worked hard, etc. Not Moreno. He put his head down, didn't complain, and went to work. He's totally rejuvenated.

As someone else said already, you can't hold Moreno accountable for McDaniels taking him too high in the draft.

I'm not trying to. I don't think he was worth a first round pick. So if after his rookie season, someone had offered the Broncos a mid first round pick for him (which is probably what the Browns will get for Richardson), I would have had no problem with them doing it. That's all that I'm saying.

 

[Broncos6482]

You don't need a RB who carries 35+ times a game for 100 yards anymore. Hardly anyone can take that pounding and stay healthy.

You just need to sell the play action and have the threat of a run game to keep defenses honest.

Rotating 2 or 3 good backs from the 2nd or 3rd round is a lot easier on the salary cap and if one of them goes down you are not totally without any running game.

This is exactly why I wouldn't take a running back in the first round. The value just isn't there.

 

[xBxtxDx]

This is exactly why I wouldn't take a running back in the first round. The value just isn't there.

I agree with you on the most part. Most RB's are not worth taking in the first round, but sometimes there is that gamechanger or unicum and if you can get him, you take him.

 

[Morpheus]

I agree with you on the most part. Most RB's are not worth taking in the first round, but sometimes there is that gamechanger or unicum and if you can get him, you take him.

A rare confluence of events, position of need along with the best player available at that pick.

 

[WalkerBoh]

A rare confluence of events, position of need along with the best player available at that pick.

I'd say if that kind of player fell in our laps, then take him regardless of need (with exception of QB if you already have a strong, established vet in is prime there).

 

[xBxtxDx]

Great take for Cleveland's perspective:

Gut Reaction:  Browns trade Trent Richardson to Colts - It's All Over, Fat Man!