Alan Trammel vs. Ozzie Smith

[Voltaire26]

Alan Trammell Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Ozzie Smith Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Ozzie Smith elected with 91.7% of the vote. Alan Trammel not yet elected. Trammel exceeds Smith in almost every statistical category. Ozzie had 13 gold gloves and Trammel had 4. Ozzie stole more bases and Trammel hit more home runs. Maybe Trammel should have done a back flip.

And what about "Sweet" Lou Whitaker (who didn't make the 2nd ballot)?

 

[broncosmitty]

Tram should have taken gymnastics.

 

[Voltaire26]

Tram should have taken gymnastics.

I know!! But they keep bring up Jack Morris' ERA. What do they have against the 1984 Tigers? Not one Hall of Famer on a team that went wire to wire.

 

[StanMarsh51]

I know!! But they keep bring up Jack Morris' ERA. What do they have against the 1984 Tigers? Not one Hall of Famer on a team that went wire to wire.

It's ridiculous that Trammel and Whitaker both aren't in....it would also be ridiculous to put Morris in the HOF.

 

[Clayton]

Sadly my 1983 Topps set isn't worth as much as it used to be.

They should all probably be in. Ozzie is just iconic because...well, i think everybody has figured that out

 

[steveringo]

Trammel is borderline because while he was a great all around player, nothing really stands out. He wasn't really 'great' at anything. I do think his overall BR WAR (70) should give him a boost as more voters understand the value of advanced statistics. (That places him 11th for all time SS.) Unfortunately, it may be too late. I think he should be in.


And, it is an unfair comarison to Smith who was elected for his defense. (#1 BR dWAR)

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_def_career.shtml

 

[Voltaire26]

Just Bumping it because it wrong that Trammel and Whitaker are not in the Hall of Fame. They played 19 years together and had better stats than Ozzie Smith. No disrespect to Ozzie, but I would take Lou and Tram any day of the week.

 

[navamind]

Just Bumping it because it wrong that Trammel and Whitaker are not in the Hall of Fame. They played 19 years together and had better stats than Ozzie Smith. No disrespect to Ozzie, but I would take Lou and Tram any day of the week.

You're not gonna hear any arguments from me. It's ridiculous neither are in. Grich should be in as well.

 

[StanMarsh51]

You're not gonna hear any arguments from me. It's ridiculous neither are in. Grich should be in as well.

Horrendously underrated career...

 

[Voltaire26]

Whoever did not vote for Greg Maddux needs to have their vote taken away.

Back to Trammel, 20.8% .... what the FUCK?

The 1984 Detroit Tigers ... wire to wire team needs representation in the Hall of Fame. The 1981 Los Angeles Dodgers are to only other team with a player in the Hall.

 

[navamind]

Whoever did not vote for Greg Maddux needs to have their vote taken away.

Back to Trammel, 20.8% .... what the FUCK?

The 1984 Detroit Tigers ... wire to wire team needs representation in the Hall of Fame. The 1981 Los Angeles Dodgers are to only other team with a player in the Hall.

tell that to the idiots that vote for Jack Morris and Lee Smith.

 

[Voltaire26]

tell that to the idiots that vote for Jack Morris.

I can understand Morris not making it (or making it) he was a fringe Hall of Famer. But Tram and Sweet Lou? What about this shit with Craig Biggio? What does a player have to do? Perform back flips?

 

[StanMarsh51]

Whoever did not vote for Greg Maddux needs to have their vote taken away.

Back to Trammel, 20.8% .... what the FUCK?

The 1984 Detroit Tigers ... wire to wire team needs representation in the Hall of Fame. The 1981 Los Angeles Dodgers are to only other team with a player in the Hall.

I don't know why you keep insisting that wire-to-wire teams need representation? Had Frank Thomas not played a paltry 34 games for the White Sox in 2005, they wouldn't have had any player from that team in the HOF (and rightfully so).

Yes, Trammel and Whitaker deserve to be in the HOF...being on the 1984 Tigers has nothing to do with that....if the 1984 Tigers went 70-92, they should still be in the HOF and vice versa.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Back in 1981 -- I tried to convince Trammell to learn how to do a back round off, but he was too busy taking infield practice and hitting in the cage.

I bet he regrets not taking my advice now. If he would have done a back round off while running out to the shortstop position -- he would have been a 1st ballot HOF'er.

 

[Voltaire26]

Ozzie Smith got a larger percentage of votes than Christy Mathewson, Rod Carew, Roberto Alomar, Frank Robinson, Joe DiMaggio, Al Kaline, Mickey Mantle, Mel Ott, Carl Hubbell, Sandy Koufax and many others. Maybe the writers with votes should be tested for drugs.

Biggio >>> Trammel >>> Ozzie Smith

THE POWER OF THE BACKFLIP​

 

[bravesfan]

some things about ozzie smith that never show up on a stat sheet


1) his range was insane, and he played on astroturf (which was equivalent to a concrete surface with a thin layer of carpet); extremely agile and would just rob hitters of basehits. Trying to use stats to define his defense does no justice


2) he was a first to third baserunner, if the ball got through the infield you could almost bet the Ozzie would be at third base


3) he was abnormally clutch, it seemed like anytime the Cards needed a crucial basehit or a stolen base, he would deliver


Alan Trammell was a good SS that did a lot of things well, but he's not as influential to a ball game like Ozzie Smith was. Smith was a game changer!

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Ozzie also played a ton more. You seem to be forgetting that. Trammell's biggest issue is his injury history. Trammell belongs in the Hall along with Whitaker. It's a travesty that Whitaker fell off the ballot after only one year. But don't blame that on Ozzie. Blame it on the overall ineptitude of the voters.

 

[StanMarsh51]

some things about ozzie smith that never show up on a stat sheet


1) his range was insane, and he played on astroturf (which was equivalent to a concrete surface with a thin layer of carpet); extremely agile and would just rob hitters of basehits. Trying to use stats to define his defense does no justice


2) he was a first to third baserunner, if the ball got through the infield you could almost bet the Ozzie would be at third base


3) he was abnormally clutch, it seemed like anytime the Cards needed a crucial basehit or a stolen base, he would deliver


Alan Trammell was a good SS that did a lot of things well, but he's not as influential to a ball game like Ozzie Smith was. Smith was a game changer!

Yet he hit .236 in the playoffs, and .173 in the 21 World Series games he played in.

And if you look at his career numbers in high those 'big' situations:
RISP - .257 AVG, .668 OPS
RISP w/2 outs - .216 AVG, .624 OPS
Late & Close - .257 AVG, .674 OPS

This 'abnormally' clutchness appears to be exaggerated.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Alan Trammell was a good SS that did a lot of things well, but he's not as influential to a ball game like Ozzie Smith was. Smith was a game changer!

Trammell won 5 gold gloves and 3 silver sluggers. Was a 6 time all-star and was the MVP of the World Series his team won. He also finished in the top 20 in MVP voting 7 times, with a runner up finish in 1987. His offensive numbers are better than Ozzie Smith and his 236 career stolen bases tells you he wasn't a station to station base runner either.

Ozzie Smith was better defensively, but Trammell was no slouch with his glove. Offensively -- it isn't even close when you try and compare the two players.

If Trammell did a back flip on the way to his position -- He'd be in the HOF already.

 

[bravesfan]

Yet he hit .236 in the playoffs, and .173 in the 21 World Series games he played in.

And if you look at his career numbers in high those 'big' situations:
RISP - .257 AVG, .668 OPS
RISP w/2 outs - .216 AVG, .624 OPS
Late & Close - .257 AVG, .674 OPS

This 'abnormally' clutchness appears to be exaggerated.

First, the walk off HR in the 85 NLCS might be one of the most clutch moments in MLB history. and it's cute how you only pointed out world series stats when he batted 500 in the 82 and 85 NLCS's...just sayin'

Second, of those stats that are highlighted...that distinguished nothing b/c whenever that Cards were in a playoff race and needed someone to get on base and get into scoring position, Ozzie would answer the call more times then not

Finally, I speak from growing up and watching him play; the impressions that he left on me and the fans. It does no justice to pull a stat sheet and use that alone to evaluate a player