Agents Take: Analyzing the 49ers Blueprint for Long Term Success

[Jikkle]

Agent's Take: Analyzing the 49ers' blueprint for long-term success - CBSSports.com

Let our decades long reign of terror begin

 

[yossarian]

That was an interesting article. Not surprisingly, they had John Clayton on the radio here in Seattle who completely disagreed -- he said that McCloughan was responsible for most of the talent drafted, not Baalke (completely forgetting that Baalke got Davis, Iupati, Kaepernick, etc.,) that they could not replace Justin Smith (forgetting about Tank Carradine), or Frank Gore (Lattimore?), and that since the defense uses so few players that the injuries to the Smiths and others means that the defense is going to wear out quickly.

I personally think that Clayton missed the big picture analysis -- those other things he mentioned about the defense is on Baalke's radar and can be corrected, and Baalke has amassed so many draft picks from this year and for next year he can restock cheaply.

 

[deep9er]

That was an interesting article. Not surprisingly, they had John Clayton on the radio here in Seattle who completely disagreed -- he said that McCloughan was responsible for most of the talent drafted, not Baalke (completely forgetting that Baalke got Davis, Iupati, Kaepernick, etc.,) that they could not replace Justin Smith (forgetting about Tank Carradine), or Frank Gore (Lattimore?), and that since the defense uses so few players that the injuries to the Smiths and others means that the defense is going to wear out quickly.

I personally think that Clayton missed the big picture analysis -- those other things he mentioned about the defense is on Baalke's radar and can be corrected, and Baalke has amassed so many draft picks from this year and for next year he can restock cheaply.

will have to agree that some players can be credited to McCloughan, referring back to 2011 season. I've always credited McCloughan for providing the 17th pick for Baalke, the one turning out to be Iupati. McCloughan is credited with the pick, Baalke the player. but McCloughan didn't provide MOST of the players (starting 2011) did he?

regarding the article.......the key is what everyone already knows......good drafting. with good drafting a GM can manage everything well. with poor drafting, you can't do anything and remain bad.

to remain a REALLY competitive SB team, it is having a franchise QB....again, what everyone already knows.

 

[yossarian]

And not just good drafting, Baalke has managed the picks well enough (including getting a ransom for Alex Smith, especially if the Chiefs do well this year), that he has enough picks to restock the roster cheaply, allowing him to resign the players the 49ers need to keep to stay at the top.

 

[deep9er]

And not just good drafting, Baalke has managed the picks well enough (including getting a ransom for Alex Smith, especially if the Chiefs do well this year), that he has enough picks to restock the roster cheaply, allowing him to resign the players the 49ers need to keep to stay at the top.

yes, these other things certainly play into it.........trades, free agency, and who to extend.

just that the main factor - key factor - is how well you draft. drafting sets the stage for your other moves, making it easier or harder?

 

[Rvnight18]

Clayton is a seahawk homer.

 

[deep9er]

Clayton is a seahawk homer.

not surprising but its ok too. in the end these two teams have to play each other, and doesn't matter who McCloughan drafted?

btw - has he done a good job for Seattle? don't know, really asking.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

not surprising but its ok too. in the end these two teams have to play each other, and doesn't matter who McCloughan drafted?

btw - has he done a good job for Seattle? don't know, really asking.

It's pretty safe to say Seattle has done a good job. It's tougher to determine how much influence McCloughan has had on that. Some reports have said he's very involved in the process, but I don't we'll ever really know.

 

[deep9er]

That was an interesting article. Not surprisingly, they had John Clayton on the radio here in Seattle who completely disagreed -- he said that McCloughan was responsible for most of the talent drafted, not Baalke (completely forgetting that Baalke got Davis, Iupati, Kaepernick, etc.,) that they could not replace Justin Smith (forgetting about Tank Carradine), or Frank Gore (Lattimore?), and that since the defense uses so few players that the injuries to the Smiths and others means that the defense is going to wear out quickly.

I personally think that Clayton missed the big picture analysis -- those other things he mentioned about the defense is on Baalke's radar and can be corrected, and Baalke has amassed so many draft picks from this year and for next year he can restock cheaply.

ok, jujst looked and McCloughan did draft most of the top players for Harbaugh (2011 season). today, there are still good players left from those drafts...Gore, VD, Willis, Staley, McDonald, Crabtree, and Brown. there is also Snyder and Haralson.

 

[luckyluke22]

Clayton is biased and as such probably just picks a few trees to chop down rather than evaluate the forest. The article gives credit to McG, but also points out what Baalke did. Not to mention Baalke helped bring in Harbough, who did McG bring in? Also alluded to but not mentioned is Paraag and his mathematical genius. He writes savvy contracts and maximizes player value. We have a fantastic front office and the organization has really turned things around under Jed. Soon we will have a new stadium and host a SB. Yeah, I think the Niners are the talk of the town. Let the haters hate.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

ok, jujst looked and McCloughan did draft most of the top players for Harbaugh (2011 season). today, there are still good players left from those drafts...Gore, VD, Willis, Staley, McDonald, Crabtree, and Brown. there is also Snyder and Haralson.

There are still great players left from those drafts. McCloughan had some issues - obviously - and he had some less than stellar classes, but he added a ton of talent to the roster. He deserves a lot of credit for shaping the current team. That said, Baalke has done a lot of good things himself.

I think the '07 and '11 drafts could go down as two of the best in franchise history.

 

[Jikkle]

McCloughan deserves credit. He was a pretty solid GM that did increase the talent level of a team with a expansion team like level of talent and some of the players are very much core components to this day.

But for one Baalke was a scout and a director of player personnel under McCloughan so he did have some input in this draft. Secondly Baalke is just a plain better GM in every area than McCloughan.

Whenever Clayton is on his radio show only stupid things come from his mouth. Like Yoss said the team did address Smith and Gore with Tank and Lattimore. Whether they can actually replace Smith and Gore is completely debatable but Baalke did draft guys that potentially could. I mean both Tank and Lattimore were considered to be top 15 talents prior to injuries so it's not like he drafted talentless scrubs. Also Smith and Gore are All Pro quality players and those guys don't come around often and aren't easily replaced.

When it comes to using so few players it seems like that one is on Fangio.

Is depth lacking on 49ers' defensive line? | CSN Bay Area

So that one could easily be fixed if Fangio would rotate guys in which has been a huge pet peeve of mine when it comes to our defense.

 

[deep9er]

There are still great players left from those drafts. McCloughan had some issues - obviously - and he had some less than stellar classes, but he added a ton of talent to the roster. He deserves a lot of credit for shaping the current team. That said, Baalke has done a lot of good things himself.

I think the '07 and '11 drafts could go down as two of the best in franchise history.

true, but the '07 (Staley) was helped by the 1st rounder taken from '08. one reason why '08 is even worse, there wasn't a 1st rounder.

 

[deep9er]

true, but the '07 (Staley) was helped by the 1st rounder taken from '08. one reason why '08 is even worse, there wasn't a 1st rounder.

wait, incorrect.

we did have a 1st in '08, that was the Balmer pick. hmmm, we traded our 2nd rounder from '07 into a 1st for '08?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

wait, incorrect.

we did have a 1st in '08, that was the Balmer pick. hmmm, we traded our 2nd rounder from '07 into a 1st for '08?

Yes. It gets complicated to start viewing picks in that light, though. Easier just to think of drafts standing alone. Honestly, the Staley trade was panned pretty heavily as we ended up giving up #8 or whatever the following year, but it's looking much better today. You could just about say we got the better of the Pats in that one, even though Mayo is a good player. Though as the 4th we gave up ultimately turned into Randy Moss, the Pats did just fine too.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

McCloughan deserves credit. He was a pretty solid GM that did increase the talent level of a team with a expansion team like level of talent and some of the players are very much core components to this day.

But for one Baalke was a scout and a director of player personnel under McCloughan so he did have some input in this draft. Secondly Baalke is just a plain better GM in every area than McCloughan.

Whenever Clayton is on his radio show only stupid things come from his mouth. Like Yoss said the team did address Smith and Gore with Tank and Lattimore. Whether they can actually replace Smith and Gore is completely debatable but Baalke did draft guys that potentially could. I mean both Tank and Lattimore were considered to be top 15 talents prior to injuries so it's not like he drafted talentless scrubs. Also Smith and Gore are All Pro quality players and those guys don't come around often and aren't easily replaced.

When it comes to using so few players it seems like that one is on Fangio.

Is depth lacking on 49ers' defensive line? | CSN Bay Area

So that one could easily be fixed if Fangio would rotate guys in which has been a huge pet peeve of mine when it comes to our defense.

There were some real extenuating circumstances in terms of our front-four depth last year, especially if we consider OLB. Haralson, a very capable backup at OLB, was lost for the year and replaced by an aging Haggans. Then when Justin Smith went down, both Dobbs and Tukuafu were hurt. Now, those guys aren't elite players, but they were our top-two DEs when healthy, particularly in passing situations. RJF was our NT backup who could also play some DE, but he's not a pass-rusher. It's tough to criticize a team for a lack of depth when they lose their #3 OLB and #3 and #4 DEs. I don't know many teams that wouldn't suffer in that situation.

Having said that, it looks like Baalke got the message and went out of his way to add DL and OLB depth this offseason.

 

[yossarian]

I do think that Clayton is correct that it seems our defensive rotation is pretty short and that MAY have contributed to some of the injuries, I think Baalke is addressing that both through the draft and probably with Fangio privately, based on his comments in the offseason about this. I just really like how Baalke has stocked up, I was frankly getting a little worried that the Seahawks had such a young talented team and a lot of our players were a little older, but Baalke has put us in a position to restock cheaply through the draft. Meanwhile the Seahawks will have some big contracts coming due with Earl Thomas, Russell Wilson, Browner and Richard Sherman to name but a few, and they just spent big on Percy Harvin and Cliff Avril.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I do think that Clayton is correct that it seems our defensive rotation is pretty short and that MAY have contributed to some of the injuries, I think Baalke is addressing that both through the draft and probably with Fangio privately, based on his comments in the offseason about this. I just really like how Baalke has stocked up, I was frankly getting a little worried that the Seahawks had such a young talented team and a lot of our players were a little older, but Baalke has put us in a position to restock cheaply through the draft. Meanwhile the Seahawks will have some big contracts coming due with Earl Thomas, Russell Wilson, Browner and Richard Sherman to name but a few, and they just spent big on Percy Harvin and Cliff Avril.

They didn't spend very big on Avril, and it's only a two-year deal. That deal won't handicap them much at all going forward.

 

[Jikkle]

There were some real extenuating circumstances in terms of our front-four depth last year, especially if we consider OLB. Haralson, a very capable backup at OLB, was lost for the year and replaced by an aging Haggans. Then when Justin Smith went down, both Dobbs and Tukuafu were hurt. Now, those guys aren't elite players, but they were our top-two DEs when healthy, particularly in passing situations. RJF was our NT backup who could also play some DE, but he's not a pass-rusher. It's tough to criticize a team for a lack of depth when they lose their #3 OLB and #3 and #4 DEs. I don't know many teams that wouldn't suffer in that situation.

Having said that, it looks like Baalke got the message and went out of his way to add DL and OLB depth this offseason.

We still could've gotten RJF, Williams, and Haggans a handful of snaps over the course of the game on early downs to give guys a breather and not over burden the guys on the front 7.

For the past two seasons our defense has faded at the end of the regular season and the lack of rotation has been a big part of that.

The Giants to me have proven that it's best to rotate guys up front and keep everyone fresher throughout the game and season.

 

[yossarian]

They didn't spend very big on Avril, and it's only a two-year deal. That deal won't handicap them much at all going forward.

Except they have some contracts that they can and should extend next year, so they may still have to let Avril go, then they're back where they started on the dline.