Game Thread: 8.21 Espresso Spider Day

[calsnowskier]

Well my small chance of playoffs hope is now zero chance. Need every one of these easy wins. They simply are not one of the 6 best teams in the NL

But there’s a lot to like and look forward to next year

I think we are starting to show the bones of a decent (not powerhouse) team.

I think Ramos is a solid OFer (though, probably not a STAR). Couple him with Lee and we have 2 solid OFers without adding anything. Cycle in Yaz, Jerr-R, Matos and Crazy, I think there are decent odds that at least one of the kids “takes over” and grabs the 3rd spot. Yaz can hold on until that happens and fill in everywhere else where/when needed.

Fitz looks like he is for real. I am not ready to lock him in as an allstar level player just yet, but he has all the tools you look for in a star (speed, power, durability, passible defense).

Bailey is already one of the top handful of catchers in all of baseball. He needs to work on his stamina, though. If he continues to run out of gas in August, than he is basically worthless.

Chappy has been pretty vocal about wanting to stay in SF. Of course he can do that himself seeing that he has a player option, but he has outplayed that option, and the Giants should lock him in for the next 3 years. Let him finish his career here and help guide the kids as they take over in the next few years.

Webb/Harrison/Ray/Birdy/Whisenhunt/Beck/Winn/etc looks to be a solid start to a solid rotation. If they are able to keep Snell, than that just makes it that much more dominant.

Walker looks like he might actually be able to hold on to the closer job. Assuming Doval is able to fix whatever is wrong with him, that gives us 2 elite closer-level arms at the end of our bully, supported by the twins and Hjelle. That is a pretty kick-ass bully.

Even our “holes” at 1st and 2nd are not horrible. But I think both spots should be looked at for improvement next year. Maybe Canha can hold over for a year to split time with Wade at 1st? Maybe Lucky can actually take some reps at 2B and take that job and FINALLY deliver on the promise. Maybe Estrada, now healthy, can return to his average+ standing at 2B.

 

[calsnowskier]

@jeep99tj

Join us…

 

[msgkings322]

I think we are starting to show the bones of a decent (not powerhouse) team.

I think Ramos is a solid OFer (though, probably not a STAR). Couple him with Lee and we have 2 solid OFers without adding anything. Cycle in Yaz, Jerr-R, Matos and Crazy, I think there are decent odds that at least one of the kids “takes over” and grabs the 3rd spot. Yaz can hold on until that happens and fill in everywhere else where/when needed.

Fitz looks like he is for real. I am not ready to lock him in as an allstar level player just yet, but he has all the tools you look for in a star (speed, power, durability, passible defense).

Bailey is already one of the top handful of catchers in all of baseball. He needs to work on his stamina, though. If he continues to run out of gas in August, than he is basically worthless.

Chappy has been pretty vocal about wanting to stay in SF. Of course he can do that himself seeing that he has a player option, but he has outplayed that option, and the Giants should lock him in for the next 3 years. Let him finish his career here and help guide the kids as they take over in the next few years.

Webb/Harrison/Ray/Birdy/Whisenhunt/Beck/Winn/etc looks to be a solid start to a solid rotation. If they are able to keep Snell, than that just makes it that much more dominant.

Walker looks like he might actually be able to hold on to the closer job. Assuming Doval is able to fix whatever is wrong with him, that gives us 2 elite closer-level arms at the end of our bully, supported by the twins and Hjelle. That is a pretty kick-ass bully.

Even our “holes” at 1st and 2nd are not horrible. But I think both spots should be looked at for improvement next year. Maybe Canha can hold over for a year to split time with Wade at 1st? Maybe Lucky can actually take some reps at 2B and take that job and FINALLY deliver on the promise. Maybe Estrada, now healthy, can return to his average+ standing at 2B.

I would focus most of my attention on the pitching. Try for another 2010 pitching first. Play to the park strengths and who we got. Open the bank for Snell that’s a top 3 rotation. As you say potentially great bully. We won a title that way

That said totally agree on Chapman Fitz Ramos etc. still need to score 3-4 at least

 

[tzill]

I think we are starting to show the bones of a decent (not powerhouse) team.

I think Ramos is a solid OFer (though, probably not a STAR). Couple him with Lee and we have 2 solid OFers without adding anything. Cycle in Yaz, Jerr-R, Matos and Crazy, I think there are decent odds that at least one of the kids “takes over” and grabs the 3rd spot. Yaz can hold on until that happens and fill in everywhere else where/when needed.

Fitz looks like he is for real. I am not ready to lock him in as an allstar level player just yet, but he has all the tools you look for in a star (speed, power, durability, passible defense).

Bailey is already one of the top handful of catchers in all of baseball. He needs to work on his stamina, though. If he continues to run out of gas in August, than he is basically worthless.

Chappy has been pretty vocal about wanting to stay in SF. Of course he can do that himself seeing that he has a player option, but he has outplayed that option, and the Giants should lock him in for the next 3 years. Let him finish his career here and help guide the kids as they take over in the next few years.

Webb/Harrison/Ray/Birdy/Whisenhunt/Beck/Winn/etc looks to be a solid start to a solid rotation. If they are able to keep Snell, than that just makes it that much more dominant.

Walker looks like he might actually be able to hold on to the closer job. Assuming Doval is able to fix whatever is wrong with him, that gives us 2 elite closer-level arms at the end of our bully, supported by the twins and Hjelle. That is a pretty kick-ass bully.

Even our “holes” at 1st and 2nd are not horrible. But I think both spots should be looked at for improvement next year. Maybe Canha can hold over for a year to split time with Wade at 1st? Maybe Lucky can actually take some reps at 2B and take that job and FINALLY deliver on the promise. Maybe Estrada, now healthy, can return to his average+ standing at 2B.

Agreed on all points. Maybe LWJ doesn't get hurt and puts up an all-star level year as he looked to be doing this year. Also, don't forget about Hicks: Back For More Starts. Add Black to the "etc." Miller and RanRod look like good young relievers as well. So thats a potential bully of Doval/Walker/Taylor/Tyler/Hjelle/Miller/RanRod....not a weak arm there. Matzek is an intriguing possibility as a third lefty, Small may be a contender for that spot as well.

I've not given up on Sabol or Schmitt either. VR isn't ancient. Wisely might be a piece. The six of Yaz/Ramos/McCray/Matos/Lee/Carney should yield a decent OF and Meckler is still pretty young.

Add in the potential of Whiz, Black, Crawford, Arteaga, McDonald, and Seymour, the near future could be really fun.

Further out I'm excited to see Eldridge, Tibbs, Whitman, Ahuna, Velazquez, Harris, Choate, Cox, Bostick and Perez.

Of course not all will pan out, but you'd think that some will. For all the grief we give FZ he's done a damn good job of deepening the minors and it's starting to produce some nice talent.

 

[filosofy29]

x.com

x.com

 

[LHG]

x.com

x.com

The phrase needs to be changed from getting Cained to getting Webbed

 

[msgkings322]

The phrase needs to be changed from getting Cained to getting Webbed

It's uncanny he even kinda looks a little like Matt Cain

 

[SF11704]

I would focus most of my attention on the pitching. Try for another 2010 pitching first. Play to the park strengths and who we got. Open the bank for Snell that’s a top 3 rotation. As you say potentially great bully. We won a title that way

That said totally agree on Chapman Fitz Ramos etc. still need to score 3-4 at least

While I agree with the sentiment I'm so sure it will hold true. Getting Snell gives us an wlite pitching staff but does nothing for a very weak offense. Snell wull ONLY be an asset in games that he pitches in. I'd rather keep a rotation without Snell and spend the 120M over 4 years on some offence that can help us in all our games. Sneel makes a good rotation elite but does nothing to addrees any offensive needs. It alll depend on how big a spending budget we really have. For me personally I'd go after Pete Alonso

 

[msgkings322]

While I agree with the sentiment I'm so sure it will hold true. Getting Snell gives us an wlite pitching staff but does nothing for a very weak offense. Snell wull ONLY be an asset in games that he pitches in. I'd rather keep a rotation without Snell and spend the 120M over 4 years on some offence that can help us in all our games. Sneel makes a good rotation elite but does nothing to addrees any offensive needs. It alll depend on how big a spending budget we really have. For me personally I'd go after Pete Alonso

Free agent sluggers WILL NOT TAKE OUR MONEY dude. Alonso included.

We have to replicate 2010 to win. And they can and should spend on both Snell and whoever else they can bring in. You won't get the big money guys anyway. You have to bring in hitters the way we got Chapman, or non sluggers like Lee. And you have to hope you bring more in through the draft (Ramos, Fitz). And maybe we can trade some of our no-longer-can't-miss guys like Matos and Luciano and Schmitt with a stud pitching prospect (Whisenhunt?) for a veteran hitter on a bad team that doesn't need him (Luis Robert?)

 

[calsnowskier]

While I agree with the sentiment I'm so sure it will hold true. Getting Snell gives us an wlite pitching staff but does nothing for a very weak offense. Snell wull ONLY be an asset in games that he pitches in. I'd rather keep a rotation without Snell and spend the 120M over 4 years on some offence that can help us in all our games. Sneel makes a good rotation elite but does nothing to addrees any offensive needs. It alll depend on how big a spending budget we really have. For me personally I'd go after Pete Alonso

Pete Alonso Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Pete Alonso. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

I admit I don’t watch Mutts games, so I can only speak to his numbers, but is he as good as his rep? He typically hits at about an .820 clip, yet he made 20M this year. He could demand a contract something like 6/200.

Again, hard for me to have a strong opinion on a guy I haven’t watched play more than a couple times, but he seems like a “headline, no story” type of player.

 

[LHG]

Pete Alonso Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Pete Alonso. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

I admit I don’t watch Mutts games, so I can only speak to his numbers, but is he as good as his rep? He typically hits at about an .820 clip, yet he made 20M this year. He could demand a contract something like 6/200.

Again, hard for me to have a strong opinion on a guy I haven’t watched play more than a couple times, but he seems like a “headline, no story” type of player.

I think he is overrated. If the Giants are going to target a big name hitter, go after Soto. Although I am afraid that may be a fool’s errand

 

[LHG]

If the team really needs a slugging 1st baseman, Christian Walker is similar to Alonso but will probably be a lot cheaper

 

[calsnowskier]

If the team really needs a slugging 1st baseman, Christian Walker is similar to Alonso but will probably be a lot cheaper

4 years older who has put up much more pedestrian numbers in a hitters park.

 

[LHG]

4 years older who has put up much more pedestrian numbers in a hitters park.

Didn’t compare age but I thought the numbers were similar. Probably not worth pursuing either one

 

[calsnowskier]

Didn’t compare age but I thought the numbers were similar. Probably not worth pursuing either one

I think looking into Alonso is a good idea. I am just not convinced he would be a good sign. He hits lots of HRs, true. But look at his supporting numbers, and he really isnt much of a player. Again, I haven’t seen him play enough to really know, though, so I am willing to be wrong on that stance.

Walker, though, would be an afterthought signing, imho. Decent bat, but really only to temporarily fill a hole. Not to sign as any kind of centerpiece and nothing longer than 1 year.

 

[Stokes1931]

Does the Giants' offense have an identity? Think of the Bash Brothers back in their heyday in Oakland. Or the hit and wait for the 3 run homer in the Orioles' heyday under Earl Weaver.

BLB was a unicorn, and with our park, looking for a bunch of mashers is probably not the way to go.

The station to station approach isn't working, either.

Perhaps we try and add some speed?

We just seem unable to manufacture runs. Clutch hitting does not exist with this team.

Maybe the team is too young and needs some maturing. Maybe the hitting approach is off. Maybe the hitting approach being taught is sound but the hitters are not listening or cannot do what is asked of them anyway.

A full year of a healthy Lee might help. While I appreciate LWJ's OBP wizardry, there has to be far more production out of the 1B position.

It just seems like whatever they are doing hitting-wise is not working.

 

[tzill]

The phrase needs to be changed from getting Cained to getting Webbed

"getting Cained" always makes me think of this song:

 

[tzill]

Does the Giants' offense have an identity? Think of the Bash Brothers back in their heyday in Oakland. Or the hit and wait for the 3 run homer in the Orioles' heyday under Earl Weaver.

BLB was a unicorn, and with our park, looking for a bunch of mashers is probably not the way to go.

The station to station approach isn't working, either.

Perhaps we try and add some speed?

We just seem unable to manufacture runs. Clutch hitting does not exist with this team.

Maybe the team is too young and needs some maturing. Maybe the hitting approach is off. Maybe the hitting approach being taught is sound but the hitters are not listening or cannot do what is asked of them anyway.

A full year of a healthy Lee might help. While I appreciate LWJ's OBP wizardry, there has to be far more production out of the 1B position.

It just seems like whatever they are doing hitting-wise is not working.

I don't know about this "identity" thing. Did 2010, 2012, or 2014 offenses have an "identity?"

 

[Stokes1931]

I don't know about this "identity" thing. Did 2010, 2012, or 2014 offenses have an "identity?"

Well, they did what they could. back in the day. That isn't happening today. Or maybe it is and they just can't.

Was interested in the recent Athletic article that looked at Baltimore's integration of hitting philosophy all the way through the org.

We just seem to keep looking for that 30 HR guy (Soler?) and keep plodding along with station to station. I can imagine someone who has speed and some contact skills, with the wide open spaces of the stadium, could do a lot of damage without having to put the ball over the wall.

 

[calsnowskier]

Well, they did what they could. back in the day. That isn't happening today. Or maybe it is and they just can't.

Was interested in the recent Athletic article that looked at Baltimore's integration of hitting philosophy all the way through the org.

We just seem to keep looking for that 30 HR guy (Soler?) and keep plodding along with station to station. I can imagine someone who has speed and some contact skills, with the wide open spaces of the stadium, could do a lot of damage without having to put the ball over the wall.

I have said for a while that we need to focus on acquiring athletic, speedy players. Think the ‘80s/‘90s Cardinals. If we get a bopper, great, but that should not be the focus of this teams roster construction.