6/16 GDT Giants @ SeaTax

[OzzieGiant]

They've got to skip Timmy next time around. If they do not skip him, the doyer series will feature Zito-Tron-Tim...we saw how well that worked out vs. the Strangers.

Yep, doing nothing would be liek like walking along a cliff edge with your eyes closed

 

[gp956]

I guess the consensus is building that Timmy's troubles can be blamed primarily on his performance out of the stretch. I don't really buy that. His fastball command sucks out of the wind-up and the stretch. That's how he gets in trouble.

The one exception is the game in AZ, where I still think the DBacks had picked something up and knew what was coming. Who knows, maybe that game really got into Timmy's head - so now he lacks confidence in throwing the fastball.

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

I guess the consensus is building that Timmy's troubles can be blamed primarily on his performance out of the stretch. I don't really buy that. His fastball command sucks out of the wind-up and the stretch. That's how he gets in trouble.

The one exception is the game in AZ, where I still think the DBacks had picked something up and knew what was coming. Who knows, maybe that game really got into Timmy's head - so now he lacks confidence in throwing the fastball.

100% agree with this. I think it's both command and confidence, not the stretch

 

[Stokes1931]

100% agree with this. I think it's both command and confidence, not the stretch

Whiteside's fault.

Notice that Timmy's miserable performance this season correlates exactly with Whiteside going to Fresneck. Coincidence or causality? :confused2:

 

[ColinCoby]

Kruk said he saw light at the end of the tunnel?

He's been saying that after each of Timmeh's last 5 starts (give or take). He needs to give it a rest.

Until Timmeh gets his mechanics figured out, it's going to remain ugly.

 

[SFAnthem]

Whiteside's fault.

Notice that Timmy's miserable performance this season correlates exactly with Whiteside going to Fresneck. Coincidence or causality? :confused2:

Extreme situations call for extreme measures...operation BBB

Bring Benjie Back

 

[msgkings322]

Extreme situations call for extreme measures...operation BBB

Bring Benjie Back

How about put him in the fucking minors like I've been saying all along? I hope Penny can pitch a bit.

And the poster above is right saying we better not face the Dodgers with Zito AND Tim.

 

[tzill]

How about put him in the fucking minors like I've been saying all along? I hope Penny can pitch a bit.

And the poster above is right saying we better not face the Dodgers with Zito AND Tim.

I don't think we can send Timmy down without his permission. He'd never accept.

 

[msgkings322]

I don't think we can send Timmy down without his permission. He'd never accept.

I know we need his consent but why he wouldn't agree is baffling to me at this point.

The anecdotal definition of insanity comes to mind.

 

[filosofy29]

I guess the consensus is building that Timmy's troubles can be blamed primarily on his performance out of the stretch. I don't really buy that. His fastball command sucks out of the wind-up and the stretch. That's how he gets in trouble.

The one exception is the game in AZ, where I still think the DBacks had picked something up and knew what was coming. Who knows, maybe that game really got into Timmy's head - so now he lacks confidence in throwing the fastball.

I don't see the stretch as his problem either. I've seen him have location problems (both walks and CRUSHED pitches) to get himself INTO the stretch too many times.

Obviously, I have no clue, but right now, I still stand by original sentiments on Timmy.....he still has DOMINANT stuff, he just doesn't have his "get out of jail free" card (the 95mph fastball) when he loses his command and starts off 2-0 in the count. When he does come in the zone, he gets hit hard because everybody knows it's a 91mph fastball right down the pipe. He's not like Cain, Bum or Vogey who can pitch to each corner of the plate with their fastball and can pitch high strike or low strike on each corner as well. Timmy also doesn't have that air of confidence anymore, he's stuck in his own mind game where as soon as a walk happens or a bad hit happens, he looks like he's struggling for answers instead of his old mindset of "fuck off" I'm getting out of this. (all of this is my perception of course, I could be way off)

How about put him in the fucking minors like I've been saying all along? I hope Penny can pitch a bit.

And the poster above is right saying we better not face the Dodgers with Zito AND Tim.

Because it's not as easy as that. The Giants FO has to look at every factor here. Bochy, Righetti and Sabean are talking (seemingly) every day, or at least after every start about what to do with Timmy. The FO also has a image to project/protect. If they are willing to just send down Timmy after his bad start to the season without his permission (a guy who has won 2 Cy's and a WS MVP), what will they do to other players who struggle? When FA's are considering teams, the FO sometimes has a large part in why or why not (if money and term are relatively equal). I often have to catch myself when I think about what would have happened to me when I played ball. Sure the coach may have benched me, but I'm not a superstar player who can ask to be traded or go to FA. These guys have ego, pride and a competitive blood in them.....it's hard to immasculate them in front of their peers and not cause any waves. In my opinion, Timmy is going to have to offer it up, otherwise, it'll just be a skipped start.

I know we need his consent but why he wouldn't agree is baffling to me at this point.

The anecdotal definition of insanity comes to mind.

Locker Room mentality and pride/competitive people. It's why most people in their jobs (especially All-Star caliber employees) wouldn't voluntarily accept a temporary demotion until their numbers picked back up.

 

[Heathbar012]

I don't see the stretch as his problem either. I've seen him have location problems (both walks and CRUSHED pitches) to get himself INTO the stretch too many times.

Obviously, I have no clue, but right now, I still stand by original sentiments on Timmy.....he still has DOMINANT stuff, he just doesn't have his "get out of jail free" card (the 95mph fastball) when he loses his command and starts off 2-0 in the count. When he does come in the zone, he gets hit hard because everybody knows it's a 91mph fastball right down the pipe. He's not like Cain, Bum or Vogey who can pitch to each corner of the plate with their fastball and can pitch high strike or low strike on each corner as well. Timmy also doesn't have that air of confidence anymore, he's stuck in his own mind game where as soon as a walk happens or a bad hit happens, he looks like he's struggling for answers instead of his old mindset of "fuck off" I'm getting out of this. (all of this is my perception of course, I could be way off)



Because it's not as easy as that. The Giants FO has to look at every factor here. Bochy, Righetti and Sabean are talking (seemingly) every day, or at least after every start about what to do with Timmy. The FO also has a image to project/protect. If they are willing to just send down Timmy after his bad start to the season without his permission (a guy who has won 2 Cy's and a WS MVP), what will they do to other players who struggle? When FA's are considering teams, the FO sometimes has a large part in why or why not (if money and term are relatively equal). I often have to catch myself when I think about what would have happened to me when I played ball. Sure the coach may have benched me, but I'm not a superstar player who can ask to be traded or go to FA. These guys have ego, pride and a competitive blood in them.....it's hard to immasculate them in front of their peers and not cause any waves. In my opinion, Timmy is going to have to offer it up, otherwise, it'll just be a skipped start.



Locker Room mentality and pride/competitive people. It's why most people in their jobs (especially All-Star caliber employees) wouldn't voluntarily accept a temporary demotion until their numbers picked back up.

I agree with you on everything but the bolded. You can dismiss a lot of Edgar Renteria's Giants' portion of his career, but you can't take away his hardware.

 

[msgkings322]

Obviously, I have no clue, but right now, I still stand by original sentiments on Timmy.....he still has DOMINANT stuff, he just doesn't have his "get out of jail free" card (the 95mph fastball) when he loses his command and starts off 2-0 in the count. When he does come in the zone, he gets hit hard because everybody knows it's a 91mph fastball right down the pipe. He's not like Cain, Bum or Vogey who can pitch to each corner of the plate with their fastball and can pitch high strike or low strike on each corner as well. Timmy also doesn't have that air of confidence anymore, he's stuck in his own mind game where as soon as a walk happens or a bad hit happens, he looks like he's struggling for answers instead of his old mindset of "fuck off" I'm getting out of this. (all of this is my perception of course, I could be way off)

Really good post, you bring up good points about how the FO has to handle this gingerly, and Timmy's pride, etc.

But the quoted part above frankly scares me. Because I agree, his ++ velocity is gone and it isn't coming back. So his 'get out of jail free' is indeed gone, and now he has to learn to LOCATE his slower fastball, like Vogey and Cain and Bum do.

And either he literally won't be able to learn to pitch like that (kind of like Tiger Woods breaking down and rebuilding his swing, and he hasn't really returned to his past skill level) and will thus be 'done'. Or it will take him a while, in fact it IS taking him a while, and he's doing it in games that count and killing the team (what are we 2-12 in his starts? We're tied for first if we were 7-7). If it takes him all year to do this, so much for 2012. And that seems like a high price to pay.