Game Thread: 5.9.2017 Hahaha @ LOL

[SFGRTB]

I think I've let the past two games cloud my understanding of Nunez' production. Its not great, but he is slashing .280/.321/.440 for the month of May so far.

Regarding Morse and Ruggiano, if they aren't going to hit, I'd rather find out now and clear room for guys like Slater and Williamson.

Good time to trade him then, while he's hot

 

[SFGRTB]

I would not be shocked to see Gorkys DFA'd in favor of Mac.

Seriously. Why is he here?

And I was a HUGE Gorkys apologist early in the season.

I was gonna say, this is a big 180 for you haha.

Ruggiano would be the everyday CFer in that case, which wouldn't be the end of the world until Span returns.

Mac hit another BOMB today. I think the Giants are close to bringing him up, they just wanted him to get his swing going, you could say he was still in ST mode.

 

[SFGRTB]

If they move Johnson over to the 60, they gotta pay him MLB money. I doubt that will happen unless they REALLY want to add someone.

That said, Bum can still be moved, so in essence, they do have a 40-spot available. But would you rather Rogers over Alvarado?

They have to pay him MLB money AND he accrues MLB service days AND loses an option year.

 

[SFGRTB]

at this point in time, the only untouchable players imo are posey, craw, mad bum, and arroyo

if g'nts can better their '19 lineup... you've my blessing

My problem with this... how much better will the alternative to Panik and Belt be? Those are 2 proven All-Stars. Shaw maybe? I love Shaw, but he's still just a prospect, unproven. Giants save some money if they trade Belt to spend it..... where? On a more expensive free agent that will have more red flags than Belt (and frankly may not exist looking at the free agent market)? In a trade, where you'd have to give up prospects?

 

[calsnowskier]

They have to pay him MLB money AND he accrues MLB service days AND loses an option year.

The option year is not an issue. He was "optioned" out of ST, so he has already spent an option this year. As for accruing time, I am not 100% that DL time counts...

 

[calsnowskier]

My problem with this... how much better will the alternative to Panik and Belt be? Those are 2 proven All-Stars. Shaw maybe? I love Shaw, but he's still just a prospect, unproven. Giants save some money if they trade Belt to spend it..... where? On a more expensive free agent that will have more red flags than Belt (and frankly may not exist looking at the free agent market)? In a trade, where you'd have to give up prospects?

Trading Panik frees 2B for Arroyo, which frees 3B for Hwang. It also brings in a pretty massive haul of prospects for a young, AS, GG, cheap, controllable 2B.

I like Panik, A LOT, but he may be the type of asset that is a perfect storm of talent and organizational strength to make him expendable.

 

[calsnowskier]

My problem with this... how much better will the alternative to Panik and Belt be? Those are 2 proven All-Stars. Shaw maybe? I love Shaw, but he's still just a prospect, unproven. Giants save some money if they trade Belt to spend it..... where? On a more expensive free agent that will have more red flags than Belt (and frankly may not exist looking at the free agent market)? In a trade, where you'd have to give up prospects?

Trading Belt (and his contract) does not ONLY free the team up to sign FAs. It also frees the team up to make a trade while eating contract instead of giving up prospects.

Salary room is a lot of strength...

 

[SFGRTB]

The option year is not an issue. He was "optioned" out of ST, so he has already spent an option this year. As for accruing time, I am not 100% that DL time counts...

God damn it where's Marco when you need him.

Regardless, we're talking about a reliever here so it's not a huge difference monetarily. It would be nice to know though.

 

[stanford the manford]

My problem with this... how much better will the alternative to Panik and Belt be? Those are 2 proven All-Stars. Shaw maybe? I love Shaw, but he's still just a prospect, unproven. Giants save some money if they trade Belt to spend it..... where? On a more expensive free agent that will have more red flags than Belt (and frankly may not exist looking at the free agent market)? In a trade, where you'd have to give up prospects?

1:1 i agree... at this point i'd expect 1 starter and 1 or 2 prospects for a panik, belt, etc. we're not going anywhere with status quo

 

[SFGRTB]

Trading Panik frees 2B for Arroyo, which frees 3B for Hwang. It also brings in a pretty massive haul of prospects for a young, AS, GG, cheap, controllable 2B.

I like Panik, A LOT, but he may be the type of asset that is a perfect storm of talent and organizational strength to make him expendable.

But that's kinda my point.... trade a young, AS, GG, cheap, controllable (proven) player for...... younger, cheap, controllable, unproven group of players.

I'm just in the group that thinks we don't need to take the risk of a drastic rebuild to be good again.

 

[calsnowskier]

But that's kinda my point.... trade a young, AS, GG, cheap, controllable (proven) player for...... younger, cheap, controllable, unproven group of players.

I'm just in the group that thinks we don't need to take the risk of a drastic rebuild to be good again.

But you are not looking at the big picture. We have Arroyo. We have Hwang. We have Howard (a few years away, granted). We have Hinojosa. We have KT. Panik is a HUGE asset that can bring back a HUGE haul. Maybe we get a stud OF prospect and a couple big time bully prospects. And we imediately fill his spot with an MLB starting caliber player in Arroyo.

The fact that we have a million options at 2B is a strength we need to capitalize on. Let's fill some of those weaknesses with that strength.

 

[SFGRTB]

Trading Belt (and his contract) does not ONLY free the team up to sign FAs. It also frees the team up to make a trade while eating contract instead of giving up prospects.

Salary room is a lot of strength...

Obviously, being a well-documented Belt supporter, I don't think there are many available players out there that would make any deal worth it. They're not finding a hitter on the free agent market that will replicate Belt's production at his price level. It's possible a prospect haul could be worth it, but again, I'm not sure the risk outweighs the reward.

 

[calsnowskier]

Obviously, being a well-documented Belt supporter, I don't think there are many available players out there that would make any deal worth it. They're not finding a hitter on the free agent market that will replicate Belt's production at his price level. It's possible a prospect haul could be worth it, but again, I'm not sure the risk outweighs the reward.

And of course, when I advocate for a Belt trade, it is because I acknowledge he has value, and we would get a lot back for him. I never recommend that we simply dump him. I feel that side of the argument often gets forgotten.

 

[1phlapdown]

28 at bats? Really?

Team batting average down to .224

And Posey's .360 might be the softest in baseball. He might even get to double digit RBI's by the ASB. Good to see him homer, though. Otherwise we'd have another shutout.

Gerald hitting .238 risp and .412 with no one on and .300 with runners on.

 

[calsnowskier]

Gerald hitting .238 risp and .412 with no one on and .300 with runners on.

The .238 is almost certainly SSS.

And I am not surprised to see his numbers with runners on 1st or no one on to be better. I am sure pitchers are more willing to give him meaty pitches in those situations.

 

[SFGRTB]

But you are not looking at the big picture. We have Arroyo. We have Hwang. We have Howard (a few years away, granted). We have Hinojosa. We have KT. Panik is a HUGE asset that can bring back a HUGE haul. Maybe we get a stud OF prospect and a couple big time bully prospects. And we imediately fill his spot with an MLB starting caliber player in Arroyo.

The fact that we have a million options at 2B is a strength we need to capitalize on. Let's fill some of those weaknesses with that strength.

Okay, so the OF is the major problem here. We are getting SEVERELY underproduction from all of these guys, but I think there's a good shot the Giants can find one asset out of the group we have now, fair to say?

Then you're trading Cueto. I think it's pretty likely they'd be targeting a young OF in that deal. Ian Happ on the Cubs? Kyle Tucker on the Astros? Pence probably isn't going anywhere, but he's a FA and will save some money in the 2018 offseason.

So, assuming the Giants can muster up SOMEONE league average in the OF, and manage to get a stud OFer for Cueto.... do you have to deal Panik and Belt? I can concede trading one, but I don't think you have to.

 

[1phlapdown]

The .238 is almost certainly SSS.

And I am not surprised to see his numbers with runners on 1st or no one on to be better. I am sure pitchers are more willing to give him meaty pitches in those situations.

34-94 overall and 5-21 risp. Among mlb leaders the avg xbh is 16 and he has 8. He has 94 ab and the avg is about 113.

 

[calsnowskier]

Okay, so the OF is the major problem here. We are getting SEVERELY underproduction from all of these guys, but I think there's a good shot the Giants can find one asset out of the group we have now, fair to say?

Then you're trading Cueto. I think it's pretty likely they'd be targeting a young OF in that deal. Ian Happ on the Cubs? Kyle Tucker on the Astros? Pence probably isn't going anywhere, but he's a FA and will save some money in the 2018 offseason.

So, assuming the Giants can muster up SOMEONE league average in the OF, and manage to get a stud OFer for Cueto.... do you have to deal Panik and Belt? I can concede trading one, but I don't think you have to.

Talking about trading X and Y does not mean we have to trade BOTH X and Y. We are just identifying X and Y and tradable assets. Trading one probably removes the need to trade the other.

As for the current crop of OFers, I don't see a stud, outside of MAYBE Shaw, but calling him an OFer is a real stretch. I think, BCS, Mac is a Nate(+) type player. If he is your savior, I think you are in trouble.

 

[SFGRTB]

Talking about trading X and Y does not mean we have to trade BOTH X and Y. We are just identifying X and Y and tradable assets. Trading one probably removes the need to trade the other.

As for the current crop of OFers, I don't see a stud, outside of MAYBE Shaw, but calling him an OFer is a real stretch. I think, BCS, Mac is a Nate(+) type player. If he is your savior, I think you are in trouble.

I'm talking everyone in the system, OF or no OF, Reynolds, Quinn, Duggar, Slater, Shaw, Jones, Davis, Gomez.... Someone.

And fair enough, I'm just not convinced trading younger players is the answer when their not part of the problem, when there are other tradeable players who aren't in the long term plans.

 

[calsnowskier]

I'm talking everyone in the system, OF or no OF, Reynolds, Quinn, Duggar, Slater, Shaw, Jones, Davis, Gomez.... Someone.

And fair enough, I'm just not convinced trading younger players is the answer when their not part of the problem, when there are other tradeable players who aren't in the long term plans.

Outside of Cueto, what non-part-of-the-future player could actually bring anything back? Nunez' value is falling faster than tz' depends stockpile. Pence may have some value, but if you thought that the Duffy trade hurt, you haven't seen anything yet. Sammy? Maybe, if he starts to really burn and the SP market blows up.

But none of those (Cueto included) would demand the haul that Panik would get.