49ers cease to exist

[dredinis21]

There's just too much talk about Harb's. I don't know if it's his doing, but it always seems that it's all about him when people talk about the 49ers. I can't thin of another team where the head coach gets so much attention. PC's a high profile guy but he isn't the first person that pops into anybody's head when thinking about the Seahawks. It's the players.

He's a much better college coach than a NFL coach because he can recruit with anybody and he does know the x's and o's. I just think his ego is a little bit too big to build a team from scratch on this level. He's perfect for Michigan. He's going to take the job, build a nice team in Ann Arbor, and make Michigan a contender once again.

Bolded #1 is false. Belichek and Payton come to mind right off the bat. Rex Ryan also comes to mind on the other end of that spectrum. As far as Harbaugh getting attention, this is an honest observation...how much of the "attention" is given by SEA fans trying to fuel their hatred in a rivalry by targeting a whiny coach? I don't pay attention to Harbaugh during the games other then to question his challenges, which he is terrible with. I would say most Niner fans would feel similarly.

Bolded #2 is false as well based on facts. Harbaugh has taken the Niners to three straight NFCCG in his first 3 years as coach, the first coach in the NFL EVER to do so. Harbaugh was never in contention for an NCAA Championship Game, although he had success. What he excels at is building a culture of success wherever he goes, regardless of the level.

 

[Mariners_44]

Bolded #2 is false as well based on facts. Harbaugh has taken the Niners to three straight NFCCG in his first 3 years as coach, the first coach in the NFL EVER to do so. Harbaugh was never in contention for an NCAA Championship Game, although he had success. What he excels at is building a culture of success wherever he goes, regardless of the level.

In the NFL he took an already established team to 3 NFCCG, but was able to make something out of nothing in college. Not saying he can't do it in the NFL, but as the Niners start to decline how will be able to piece together a group of his own guy's?

I think this entire situation in SF comes down to one question, why? Why is everyone picking on SF? Seriously, if there's no merit to any of this then why?

 

[dredinis21]

In the NFL he took an already established team to 3 NFCCG, but was able to make something out of nothing in college. Not saying he can't do it in the NFL, but as the Niners start to decline how will be able to piece together a group of his own guy's?

I think this entire situation in SF comes down to one question, why? Why is everyone picking on SF? Seriously, if there's no merit to any of this then why?

An established team? They were 7-9 the year before he took over and hadn't had a winning season in almost a decade. This idea that he shows up and it's plug and play is false.

As far as to the question why, the Niners had a few holdouts, a few injuries to key players, and the suspension of one of our best players. The Niners unfortunately earned the extra scrutiny. That coupled with a slow start gets people questioning our team.

Defense alone, we are currently missing our All Pro ILB, star OLB, starting NT coming off a career year, and breaking in virtually an entire secondary. On offense, we had our Pro Bowl G and TE hold out, we had our starting RT and key backup RB/KR/PR out with injury, while breaking in a new C and WR. It would make sense that continuity isn't there and the team would struggle out the gate a bit.

Again, talking heads watching from afar coming up with their own lazy, sensational narrative as to why the one of the best teams in the NFL is struggling. Because of Harbaugh's prickly personality with the media, he becomes the easy target.

 

[WizardHawk]

Harbs was asked by his own home town radio crew on his bi-weekly radio show (seriously, bi-weekly? da fuq is up with that? lolz) about if he has any regrets about letting smith go and he wouldn't give a straight answer. They pushed him 3 times and he wouldn't give a straight answer.

If you want to defend his record of taking the 9'ers to the post season with a team he largely inherited, then you must also be open to talking about the decisions he has had input in over that span and how they turned out.

He's not a bad coach. I mean most of us think he's a bad human being, or at least just a total douche, but he can coach. I'm just not going to give him all of the credit for their limited success to date. At least Carroll was a huge factor in the complete rebuild of the Seahawks.

I have my opinion about this, but I'm going to start a poll asking our fans if they want to see Harbs leave and go to Michigan (or anywhere else). The answer to that might tell you something.

 

[MrS]

The miners talent was established, they were perrenial preseason favorites because of it. Bad coaching led them to losing seasons, not lack of talent.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

An established team? They were 7-9 the year before he took over and hadn't had a winning season in almost a decade. This idea that he shows up and it's plug and play is false.

As far as to the question why, the Niners had a few holdouts, a few injuries to key players, and the suspension of one of our best players. The Niners unfortunately earned the extra scrutiny. That coupled with a slow start gets people questioning our team.

Defense alone, we are currently missing our All Pro ILB, star OLB, starting NT coming off a career year, and breaking in virtually an entire secondary. On offense, we had our Pro Bowl G and TE hold out, we had our starting RT and key backup RB/KR/PR out with injury, while breaking in a new C and WR. It would make sense that continuity isn't there and the team would struggle out the gate a bit.

Again, talking heads watching from afar coming up with their own lazy, sensational narrative as to why the one of the best teams in the NFL is struggling. Because of Harbaugh's prickly personality with the media, he becomes the easy target.

I think by established team he meant that Harbaugh didn't come in and make a bunch of personnel changes. He just took a team with basically the same players and won. At Stanford he actually had to rebuild the program.

 

[dredinis21]

Harbs was asked by his own home town radio crew on his bi-weekly radio show (seriously, bi-weekly? da fuq is up with that? lolz) about if he has any regrets about letting smith go and he wouldn't give a straight answer. They pushed him 3 times and he wouldn't give a straight answer.

If you want to defend his record of taking the 9'ers to the post season with a team he largely inherited, then you must also be open to talking about the decisions he has had input in over that span and how they turned out.

He's not a bad coach. I mean most of us think he's a bad human being, or at least just a total douche, but he can coach. I'm just not going to give him all of the credit for their limited success to date. At least Carroll was a huge factor in the complete rebuild of the Seahawks.

I have my opinion about this, but I'm going to start a poll asking our fans if they want to see Harbs leave and go to Michigan (or anywhere else). The answer to that might tell you something.

If not Harbaugh, who gets credit for turning this ship around? Virtually the same personnel people have been in place with the exception of McDrunkan from the Nolan days, when those teams went 7-9 like 2-3 consecutive years (didn't fact check this, but I know they stunk). I have said it already in this thread. He creates a culture of success. That's what he has done. You will marginalize what he has done by saying he inherited this team full of talent. But three coaches prior to him did exactly ZERO with said talent and he turned it around IN A LOCKOUT SEASON in less then one. If you want to go talk about decisions he has made, feel free. Here are some that I think played HUGE dividends. He created an offensive and defensive identity. He brought back Alex Smith and built our offense around his strengths and to hide his weaknesses. As a matter of fact, he has done that with quite a few players and have gotten the most out of them. Then he gave the ok to trade Smith for 2 2nd round picks!

There are plenty of things I could nitpick him on, like clock management and his use of challenges. I will never question trading away Alex Smith because a) we got two 2nd round picks out of the deal b) we drafted Kap in the 2nd rd, who was waiting in the wings c) Alex was set to cash in as a FA in a year he was making 8+ mil and d) Alex Smith handcuffed our offense by NOT throwing to his WRs...hence his nickname amongst Niner fans as Captain Dump-off. Alex took care of the ball and was a decent decision maker, but his conservative nature stunted the growth of our offense. Exhibit A would be the NFCCG vs NYG, where exactly ONE pass was caught by a WR.

Lastly, you brought up Carroll and I have no idea why. I never compared or contrasted their respective roles in the organization and I think we can agree that they are different. As far as a SEA fan poll, I don't think I will get much out of a poll of SEA fans as to what they think of Harbaugh. Some will want him to stay because they believe the bullshit being spewed, others will realize what he has done with this team and what a good coach can do and would wish him gone to make the path to the SB easier for the Hawks. Either way, there will be obvious bias that tells me nothing.

 

[dredinis21]

I think by established team he meant that Harbaugh didn't come in and make a bunch of personnel changes. He just took a team with basically the same players and won. At Stanford he actually had to rebuild the program.

That's a cop out. He made HUGE SCHEMATIC CHANGES! He gave a legitimate offensive and defensive identity to what they were doing. He also did it in a lock out year, where he had minimal contact with his players to start off the season. These are things that hawk fans like to marginalize as if it doesn't mean a thing. How would Carroll have faired his first year assessing his team with HALF of a normal pre-season? My guess is that it would have affected his ability in some way to assess and develop his team as well.

In terms of success, isn't wins/losses and how far you go in your respective divisional/conference/championship play the determining factor to success? In college, the HC is given different duties from HC in the NFL. Even Carroll, who has a huge hand in player personnel in the NFL, still has the GM to do some of the heavy lifting. You or anyone trying to make the argument that Harbaugh is more successful in college without using what the respective records are and how far they went in their fields is simply comparing apples and oranges by using college recruitment as opposed to NFL draft to determine success.

 

[WizardHawk]

If not Harbaugh, who gets credit for turning this ship around? Virtually the same personnel people have been in place with the exception of McDrunkan from the Nolan days, when those teams went 7-9 like 2-3 consecutive years (didn't fact check this, but I know they stunk). I have said it already in this thread. He creates a culture of success. That's what he has done. You will marginalize what he has done by saying he inherited this team full of talent. But three coaches prior to him did exactly ZERO with said talent and he turned it around IN A LOCKOUT SEASON in less then one. If you want to go talk about decisions he has made, feel free. Here are some that I think played HUGE dividends. He created an offensive and defensive identity. He brought back Alex Smith and built our offense around his strengths and to hide his weaknesses. As a matter of fact, he has done that with quite a few players and have gotten the most out of them. Then he gave the ok to trade Smith for 2 2nd round picks!

There are plenty of things I could nitpick him on, like clock management and his use of challenges. I will never question trading away Alex Smith because a) we got two 2nd round picks out of the deal b) we drafted Kap in the 2nd rd, who was waiting in the wings c) Alex was set to cash in as a FA in a year he was making 8+ mil and d) Alex Smith handcuffed our offense by NOT throwing to his WRs...hence his nickname amongst Niner fans as Captain Dump-off. Alex took care of the ball and was a decent decision maker, but his conservative nature stunted the growth of our offense. Exhibit A would be the NFCCG vs NYG, where exactly ONE pass was caught by a WR.

Lastly, you brought up Carroll and I have no idea why. I never compared or contrasted their respective roles in the organization and I think we can agree that they are different. As far as a SEA fan poll, I don't think I will get much out of a poll of SEA fans as to what they think of Harbaugh. Some will want him to stay because they believe the bullshit being spewed, others will realize what he has done with this team and what a good coach can do and would wish him gone to make the path to the SB easier for the Hawks. Either way, there will be obvious bias that tells me nothing.

You are trying way too hard and taking this way too seriously.

This is the hawks board and tearing down the 9'ers is sort of a thing that is always going to happen up here.

Not sure what part of "He's a good coach" you didn't get, but you spent entirely too many words saying basically the same thing.

Why did I bring up Carroll? Wasn't that obvious? I said Carroll had to entirely rebuild the hawks from the ground up (well he and RS together of course) while Harbs didn't do more than have some input in draft choices. The core of the team was already in place.

As for the questions about dismissing Smith, it was your own radio hosts asking the question and all I did was comment on Harbs ducking it despite them pushing him on it. But since you want to discuss it, are you still happy about that move now knowing what you have in Kaep and seeing how Smith has progressed with KC? Because in my eyes the 9'ers with Smith is a more dangerous team than the one with Kaep, but that's my opinion.

 

[dredinis21]

You are trying way too hard and taking this way too seriously.

This is the hawks board and tearing down the 9'ers is sort of a thing that is always going to happen up here.

Not sure what part of "He's a good coach" you didn't get, but you spent entirely too many words saying basically the same thing.

Why did I bring up Carroll? Wasn't that obvious? I said Carroll had to entirely rebuild the hawks from the ground up (well he and RS together of course) while Harbs didn't do more than have some input in draft choices. The core of the team was already in place.

As for the questions about dismissing Smith, it was your own radio hosts asking the question and all I did was comment on Harbs ducking it despite them pushing him on it. But since you want to discuss it, are you still happy about that move now knowing what you have in Kaep and seeing how Smith has progressed with KC? Because in my eyes the 9'ers with Smith is a more dangerous team than the one with Kaep, but that's my opinion.

Saying the same thing due to you and others deflecting credit. Same cast of characters, completely different result. If Harbaugh doesn't get credit, who should? The fact that he didn't have to strip a roster down is irrelevant to the success he has brought.

As far as Smith, I disagree with you. The Smith-led Niners also had the best defense in the league, so I would ask you how much of your "more dangerous" 9er idea is wrapped around having an all-world defense at the time? A Smith-led offense was frustrating because of his unwillingness to throw downfield in order to clear room for Gore. His roll-outs seemingly always were just throw-aways. The core of his throws went to Gore or VD.

A Kap-led offense is FAR more dangerous while being slightly less efficient and its not even close just based on his legs alone.

 

[Uhsplit]

Saying the same thing due to you and others deflecting credit. Same cast of characters, completely different result. If Harbaugh doesn't get credit, who should? The fact that he didn't have to strip a roster down is irrelevant to the success he has brought.

As far as Smith, I disagree with you. The Smith-led Niners also had the best defense in the league, so I would ask you how much of your "more dangerous" 9er idea is wrapped around having an all-world defense at the time? A Smith-led offense was frustrating because of his unwillingness to throw downfield in order to clear room for Gore. His roll-outs seemingly always were just throw-aways. The core of his throws went to Gore or VD.

A Kap-led offense is FAR more dangerous while being slightly less efficient and its not even close just based on his legs alone.

dred, you make many good arguments. Without looking up stats I think Kaep is more turnover prone than Alexis is. IMO, the 2011 SF team that did not make the SB was the best team out of the last 3.
The better D and a careful QB was a better mix.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

There are about 20 NFL gigs that would pay top dollar to have him as HC. It's not like the Michigan job would be the only choice he would have.

That's true, Harb's would have many choices to choose from but I think Michigan heads the list and will pay top dollar to land him there first.

 

[WizardHawk]

Saying the same thing due to you and others deflecting credit. Same cast of characters, completely different result. If Harbaugh doesn't get credit, who should? The fact that he didn't have to strip a roster down is irrelevant to the success he has brought.

As far as Smith, I disagree with you. The Smith-led Niners also had the best defense in the league, so I would ask you how much of your "more dangerous" 9er idea is wrapped around having an all-world defense at the time? A Smith-led offense was frustrating because of his unwillingness to throw downfield in order to clear room for Gore. His roll-outs seemingly always were just throw-aways. The core of his throws went to Gore or VD.

A Kap-led offense is FAR more dangerous while being slightly less efficient and its not even close just based on his legs alone.

I said he's a good coach. What more do you want?

If you don't see that there is a difference between reaching the playoffs with a team you inherit vs completely turning over a team and not only making the playoffs, but winning it all, then I'm not sure what more can clear that up.

And as he's adding more of his own pieces and time is going on he went from SB loser to NFCCG loser and this year's team hasn't exactly been lighting it up.

Spare me the drivel about injuries and suspensions.

I like the direction your team is going. That should say something. I know it won't, but it should.