Series Thread: 2nd Round: Memphis Grizzlies vs Golden State Warriors

[wildturkey]

Duncan, Bosh/Birdman, Tyson Chandler**, Pau Gasol/Odom/Bynum, Perkins/Garnett, Duncan, Shaq, Duncan, Wallace Brothers, Duncan/Robinson, Shaq, Shaq, Shaq, Duncan/Robinson....

Every team that wins a title even in the 3 point era wins with low post offense with the possible exception of 2011 Dallas

San Antonio hit more 3 pointers than ever last year, but the offense was still run through Duncan at the rim.
He could easily have won Finals MVP just as much as Kawahi.

The Clippers are finally a threat because Blake Griffin developed into a guy who can score down low in the halfcourt alongside Jordan.

The game is still played in the paint.

And it always will be.

You realize the Spurs have been playing motion for the last 3 to 4 years (not dump it down post play), right? And that the reason the Clips have gotten better offensively is because Griffin has expanded his game beyond the 10 feet around the rim. The post play stuff died years ago. Space is what's important. Now the champions typically have a good 4 or 5 man, but if you paid closer attention you'd see the trend isn't about just great post play, but roster balance. Those champions have good production across the board and use that to space the floor. Heck, even Memphis, the only team that does still play a more post heavy game, has more floor spacing with Courtney Lee and Vince Carter (who has dropped off a cliff in 2015) and often goes smaller with Jeff Green at the 4 (who is more of a face up wing) than it has in the past. Even they have adapted. You're equating production at the 4 or 5 with post play. The two are no longer exclusive to each other and haven't been for some time.

BTW, your list at the top is messed up. The Lakers are really the only team in the last 5 years that generated a good chunk of post heavy offense. The Spurs facilitate thru Duncan but its still motion heavy and quite often Duncan is pulled away from the post to generate looks for himself and others. Pop specifically made this change around 2010 because A) He saw the way the league was going and B) To take the load off Duncan as he aged. The Heat played Bosh up around the FT line more often than not (Birdman, really? You're pushing it). So much so that even as the Heat were winning, people would still bitch saying "The Heat can't win because Bosh needs to play down low". You admitted Chandler is a non post threat option. And then with Boston, Garnett took tons of midrange shots. They didn't just dump it down and let him go to work like its 1998 (why even list Perkins?).

 

[Hambombs]

MVP is Choking. Playoffs are a different animal.

He's only had 2 bad shooting games. But he's not the reason we are losing IMO. Curry is very very good in the playoffs actually

 

[Hambombs]

You realize the Spurs have been playing motion for the last 3 to 4 years (not dump it down post play), right? And that the reason the Clips have gotten better offensively is because Griffin has expanded his game beyond the 10 feet around the rim. The post play stuff died years ago. Space is what's important. Now the champions typically have a good 4 or 5 man, but if you paid closer attention you'd see the trend isn't about just great post play, but roster balance. Those champions have good production across the board and use that to space the floor. Heck, even Memphis, the only team that does still play a more post heavy game, has more floor spacing with Courtney Lee and Vince Carter (who has dropped off a cliff in 2015) and often goes smaller with Jeff Green at the 4 (who is more of a face up wing) than it has in the past. Even they have adapted. You're equating production at the 4 or 5 with post play. The two are no longer exclusive to each other and haven't been for some time.

BTW, your list at the top is messed up. The Lakers are really the only team in the last 5 years that generated a good chunk of post heavy offense. The Spurs facilitate thru Duncan but its still motion heavy and quite often Duncan is pulled away from the post to generate looks for himself and others. Pop specifically made this change around 2010 because A) He saw the way the league was going and B) To take the load off Duncan as he aged. The Heat played Bosh up around the FT line more often than not (Birdman, really? You're pushing it). So much so that even as the Heat were winning, people would still bitch saying "The Heat can't win because Bosh needs to play down low". You admitted Chandler is a non post threat option. And then with Boston, Garnett took tons of midrange shots. They didn't just dump it down and let him go to work like its 1998 (why even list Perkins?).

Wow great post. I tell everyone this all the time but they tell me it's a big mans game first even though since 2010 that's changed

 

[69er]

Live by the 3, die by the 3 is starting to come true.

Curry does need to step up but Kerr also needs to realize, team ball isnt exactly winning shit in these playoffs. If the role players shots arent going in, Id rather run my offense through Curry, double teamed, chucking or whatever.

Hopefully he can switch the lineup. Might be better off bringing Speights out earlier if need be.

This matchup is about Zbo/Gasol vs Steph/Klay and the big guys are obviously winning out. I cant believe how badly Draymond and Bogut are getting beat up, they are not on this team for their offense, their main job is to protect the paint, cant believe I have to see the perimeter help them out.

And Harrison Barnes is the XFactor into helping GSW win imo

 

[69er]

He's only had 2 bad shooting games. But he's not the reason we are losing IMO. Curry is very very good in the playoffs actually

He can be but damn it sucks when his shots arent going in. Joergers done his homework, Pop and Doc do a good job in game planning against Curry. But when hes hot, the guy is unguardable. Hope he shows up, if he doesnt, GSW are fucked.

 

[wildturkey]

Live by the 3, die by the 3 is starting to come true.

Curry does need to step up but Kerr also needs to realize, team ball isnt exactly winning shit in these playoffs. If the role players shots arent going in, Id rather run my offense through Curry, double teamed, chucking or whatever.

Hopefully he can switch the lineup. Might be better off bringing Speights out earlier if need be.

This matchup is about Zbo/Gasol vs Steph/Klay and the big guys are obviously winning out. I cant believe how badly Draymond and Bogut are getting beat up, they are not on this team for their offense, their main job is to protect the paint, cant believe I have to see the perimeter help them out.

And Harrison Barnes is the XFactor into helping GSW win imo

Speights is hurt and out at least a week. Gonna have to hope Lee has gotten himself into shape coming off his injury.

Also, I'm confused by the bolded part. Where exactly is team ball not winning? You're saying you'd rather just let Curry let them fly? Because that's the exact opposite of what needs to happen and also not how GS played all year. GS shoots a lot of 3s but they've been one of the more balanced teams from top to bottom all year. The ball movement has been a thing of beauty. It hasn't been just one guy.

You're right about Green getting beat up. I think I said here if Green couldn't hold his own against the front court, Memphis could get a couple of games and that's happened. Some of it is he's been outmuscled. Some of it is Green just needs slow down and play smarter. That's the youth factor and its more a reason of why the series has gone the way it has moreso than anything else. Memphis is getting its shots, which is to be expected from teams the deeper you go in the playoffs, and GS players will get rattled for periods of time which leads to dumb turnovers or misses of hesitation despite the fact that they still got a good shot that they've gotten all year. The basketball is the same, their mentality isn't. If they can tighten that up and focus on the in the moment play, they can easily get back to what they're use to.

 

[oaktown]

Steph and the rest of the Warriors remind me of how Peyton Manning (MVP, prolific offense, etc.) and the Broncos did against that Seattle Defense in the 2014 Super Bowl. Warriors are a rhythm team that look out of whack against a great D. Hoping that they find a way to win!

 

[trojanfan12]

Duncan, Bosh/Birdman, Tyson Chandler**, Pau Gasol/Odom/Bynum, Perkins/Garnett, Duncan, Shaq, Duncan, Wallace Brothers, Duncan/Robinson, Shaq, Shaq, Shaq, Duncan/Robinson....

Every team that wins a title even in the 3 point era wins with low post offense with the possible exception of 2011 Dallas

San Antonio hit more 3 pointers than ever last year, but the offense was still run through Duncan at the rim.
He could easily have won Finals MVP just as much as Kawahi.

The Clippers are finally a threat because Blake Griffin developed into a guy who can score down low in the halfcourt alongside Jordan.

The game is still played in the paint.

And it always will be.

Current playoffs:

Horford, Pau, Gibson, Noah, Marc Gasol, Z-Bo, Nene, Gortat, Griffin, Jordan, Howard, Smith, Mozgov, Thompson.....

Looks like the only team lacking a true post presence is GSW.

 

[Hambombs]

Warriorstook off of practice to get there heads right. Hopefully that helps.

 

[Hambombs]

Current playoffs:

Horford, Pau, Gibson, Noah, Marc Gasol, Z-Bo, Nene, Gortat, Griffin, Jordan, Howard, Smith, Mozgov, Thompson.....

Looks like the only team lacking a true post presence is GSW.

A lot of those guys aren't post players

 

[trojanfan12]

A lot of those guys aren't post players

Uh, every one of them is a post player to some extent. Those are all power forwards and centers.

 

[Hambombs]

Uh, every one of them is a post player to some extent. Those are all power forwards and centers.

Griffin, Gasol brothers, zbo that's it

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

Yes Nene, Gortat, Mozgov, Howard, and Jordan are all well known for drifting out to the 3 pt line and taking jumpers

 

[Hambombs]

Yes Nene, Gortat, Mozgov, Howard, and Jordan are all well known for drifting out to the 3 pt line and taking jumpers

They aren't true post players. Guys just eat glass and put the ball back in on a broken play

 

[trojanfan12]

Griffin, Gasol brothers, zbo that's it

Smith, Nene, Noah, Gibson and Thompson are all power forwards.

Horford, Jordan, Gortat, Mozgov and Howard are all centers.

Give it up dude. You said that GSW didn't need a strong post presence to win a title and it's not looking good for you. Quit trying to change guys positions. Every guy I named is a post player to some degree or another and every one of them is a stronger post presence than GSW has.

You may ultimately end up being proven right and GSW may end up winning the whole thing. It just isn't looking too good for them right now.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yes Nene, Gortat, Mozgov, Howard, and Jordan are all well known for drifting out to the 3 pt line and taking jumpers

Pretty sure they're all point guards.

 

[69er]

Speights is hurt and out at least a week. Gonna have to hope Lee has gotten himself into shape coming off his injury.

Also, I'm confused by the bolded part. Where exactly is team ball not winning? You're saying you'd rather just let Curry let them fly? Because that's the exact opposite of what needs to happen and also not how GS played all year. GS shoots a lot of 3s but they've been one of the more balanced teams from top to bottom all year. The ball movement has been a thing of beauty. It hasn't been just one guy.

You're right about Green getting beat up. I think I said here if Green couldn't hold his own against the front court, Memphis could get a couple of games and that's happened. Some of it is he's been outmuscled. Some of it is Green just needs slow down and play smarter. That's the youth factor and its more a reason of why the series has gone the way it has moreso than anything else. Memphis is getting its shots, which is to be expected from teams the deeper you go in the playoffs, and GS players will get rattled for periods of time which leads to dumb turnovers or misses of hesitation despite the fact that they still got a good shot that they've gotten all year. The basketball is the same, their mentality isn't. If they can tighten that up and focus on the in the moment play, they can easily get back to what they're use to.

The only true scorers on this team is Steph, Klay, Speights, Barbosa and Lee (not this season tho). And I use the term scorer loosely.

If the shots arent going in for the role players, then yes, as egregious as it sounds, Id rather Steph chuck it. These guys cant score for shit when they arent playing at a fast pace or are wide open.

But hopefully they prove me wrong, I will gladly stfu.

 

[trojanfan12]

They aren't true post players. Guys just eat glass and put the ball back in on a broken play

This is what being a GSW fan does to you apparently. It renders you inbcapable of knowing what a post player is.

 

[Hambombs]

Smith, Nene, Noah, Gibson and Thompson are all power forwards.

Horford, Jordan, Gortat, Mozgov and Howard are all centers.

Give it up dude. You said that GSW didn't need a strong post presence to win a title and it's not looking good for you. Quit trying to change guys positions. Every guy I named is a post player to some degree or another and every one of them is a stronger post presence than GSW has.

You may ultimately end up being proven right and GSW may end up winning the whole thing. It just isn't looking too good for them right now.

I'm well aware of what positions they play. I'm talking about true 100% post players not what position they play

 

[Hambombs]

Smith, Nene, Noah, Gibson and Thompson are all power forwards.

Horford, Jordan, Gortat, Mozgov and Howard are all centers.

Give it up dude. You said that GSW didn't need a strong post presence to win a title and it's not looking good for you. Quit trying to change guys positions. Every guy I named is a post player to some degree or another and every one of them is a stronger post presence than GSW has.

You may ultimately end up being proven right and GSW may end up winning the whole thing. It just isn't looking too good for them right now.

Clips were down 2-1 they look fine now.
We will see what happens I guess