2024 Free agency and draft thread

[fightinfunbags]

Yet no one else was "in".

That’s not true. There was a final group. The Browns were out and then got back in by offering a contract no one else would.

 

[dtgold88]

That’s not true. There was a final group. The Browns were out and then got back in by offering a contract no one else would.

Yes...all made it as far as the Browns. No one was ever chosen. And why still a question coward? Here it is again......Can we agree all those teams going after him did so thinking he would at least be up to the standards he set in Houston at age 26-27?

 

[fightinfunbags]

Yes...all made it as far as the Browns. No one was ever chosen. And why still a question coward? Here it is again......Can we agree all those teams going after him did so thinking he would at least be up to the standards he set in Houston at age 26-27?

I don’t play games with a r*pe apologist’s agenda. I don’t care that Watson was once good and then wasn’t in Cleveland.

The Browns gave him a contract no one else was willing to give and that’s why he went to NFL hell.

 

[dtgold88]

I don’t play games with a r*pe apologist’s agenda. I don’t care that Watson was once good and then wasn’t in Cleveland.

The Browns gave him a contract no one else was willing to give and that’s why he went to NFL hell.

Why so afraid to answer questions? Is it the racist in you, just way too irrational? Both?

 

[fightinfunbags]

Why so afraid to answer questions? Is it the racist in you, just way too irrational? Both?

I already answered your question. I don’t abide by the agenda of a r*pe apologist.

 

[dtgold88]

I already answered your question. I don’t abide by the agenda of a r*pe apologist.

You actually did not answer. I get those questions scare ya, but don't be afraid little fella. You can do it.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Again, what makes it official........actual letterhead of an offer from the teams?

When it comes directly from the NFL or the team. No letterhead needed. There is no reason to think any other team came close to offering what the Browns did other then speculation.

 

[dtgold88]

When it comes directly from the NFL or the team. No letterhead needed. There is no reason to think any other team came close to offering what the Browns did other then speculation.

No reason? Other than many respected reporters telling us teams had to offer 3 firsts in order to be allowed to meet with Houston. How about a quote from Houstin GM Caserio?

Four teams ultimately jockeyed for position to secure the services of Deshaun Watson: Panthers, Saints, Falcons, and Browns. More than four were interested.

The field was cut to four based in large part on teams failing to meet Houston’s threshold trade expectations.

“I would say there was a fair amount of teams, but what we tried to do was bring the teams that had a legitimate interest, and that was based off the compensation that was presented,” Texans G.M. Nick Caserio told reporters on Saturday. “Going back to the earlier questions, I think there was a certain threshold that I had established in order to make it a legitimate discussion, and if we got to that point then we could engage further. I don’t want to get into the exact number, but there was a few more, however many teams than what everybody was reporting towards the end.”

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

But you don't know this...meaning someone might have offered the same. You certainly don't know we offered more "by a large margin".

and of course there is this.....all the teams going after him likely assumed he could still play at the very least close to the level he did in Houston right? If not the same or better since was only 26-27.

More to come if you will answer that.

You're kind of going in circles now to fit your narrative. So now you want to argue someone could've offered the same or the Browns may have not been a large margin, but you are saying 12 teams made MAJOR plays without knowing what 'major plays' means. A major play could be 3 years $100M (not fully guaranteed and with incentives). I'd consider that major. It's nowhere near what the Browns gave up. It's not even on the same planet.

Seattle IMO made a MAJOR play on Sam Darnold. Basically $33M a year. That's more than most players at any other position are getting and pretty damn good for a starting QB. It wasn't $250M over 5 years (a few years ago) fully guaranteed major though.

You can't really define major with your source, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say? It seems like you want to argue "Oh 12 teams were going to pay $200M+ and the same draft capital FULLY guaranteed! And the Browns paid just a little more."

So going back to Harold's point? All you're giving is speculation. I kind of agree if you want to argue this point, go to every single one of those 12 teams and get an official statement, or go track down an article from the NFL or a TEAM source (coaches and GMs routinely give up information).

New outlet/NFL Twitter dude: "12 teams are making a major play for Watson."

Okay... well WTF does that mean? End of day the contract the Browns gave (I was somewhat okay with the trade) was ridiculous lol. Too many flags there. And could Watson have panned out? SURE. But the Browns made a "Put everything on red and let it ride" kind of gamble. And for what it is at the time, it's a stupid thing to do.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

No reason? Other than many respected reporters telling us teams had to offer 3 firsts in order to be allowed to meet with Houston. How about a quote from Houstin GM Caserio?

Four teams ultimately jockeyed for position to secure the services of Deshaun Watson: Panthers, Saints, Falcons, and Browns. More than four were interested.

The field was cut to four based in large part on teams failing to meet Houston’s threshold trade expectations.

“I would say there was a fair amount of teams, but what we tried to do was bring the teams that had a legitimate interest, and that was based off the compensation that was presented,” Texans G.M. Nick Caserio told reporters on Saturday. “Going back to the earlier questions, I think there was a certain threshold that I had established in order to make it a legitimate discussion, and if we got to that point then we could engage further. I don’t want to get into the exact number, but there was a few more, however many teams than what everybody was reporting towards the end.”

Nothing in that statement that even implies another team was close to offering what the Browns gave or that they were willing or considering giving 3 firsts. The statement is purposely vague with things like "I think there was a certain threshold". This type of statement is what leads to the type of speculation you have bought into or what you are using to spin what the Browns did as reasonable.

 

[dtgold88]

You're kind of going in circles now to fit your narrative. So now you want to argue someone could've offered the same or the Browns may have not been a large margin, but you are saying 12 teams made MAJOR plays without knowing what 'major plays' means. A major play could be 3 years $100M. I'd consider that major. It's nowhere near what the Browns gave up. It's not even on the same planet.

Seattle IMO made a MAJOR play on Sam Darnold. Basically $33M a year. That's more than most players at any other position are getting and pretty damn good for a starting QB. It wasn't $250M over 5 years (a few years ago) fully guaranteed major though.

You can't really define major with your source, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say? It seems like you want to argue "Oh 12 teams were going to pay $200M+ and the same draft capital FULLY guaranteed! And the Browns paid just a little more."

So going back to Harold's point? All you're giving is speculation. I kind of agree if you want to argue this point, go to every single one of those 12 teams and get an official statement, or go track down an article FROM the NFL or FROM someone on the team (coaches and GMs routinely give up information) from the FO of what every team offered.

Major plays meant in order to meet with him had to meet Houston asking price of at least 3 first rounders. Have said that many times. Might they also have offered to guarantee a lot more in his deal? sure.

So how about answer my question.......do you believe all the teams who went after Watson did so under the assumption he would at least play as well as he did in Houston if not better? Simple yes or no would be great.

To your last point found comments from the Houston GM if that was ok (listed above).

 

[dtgold88]

Nothing in that statement that even implies another team was close to offering what the Browns gave or that they were willing or considering giving 3 firsts. The statement is purposely vague with things like "I think there was a certain threshold". This type of statement is what leads to the type of speculation you have bought into or what you are using to spin what the Browns did as reasonable.

he said there was a certain threshold to be considered...you think, what he would take less from other teams and demand more from the Browns?

Knind of new even with pretty clear proof still would not accept it.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

So how about answer my question.......do you believe all the teams who went after Watson did so under the assumption he would at least play as well as he did in Houston if not better? Simple yes or no would be great.

Picking this point out because it's something new you brought up (that I've seen anyway).

Sure, I think some teams did think they may get the Houston version of Watson. I think that's okay. I think Seattle is hoping Sam Darnold will be what he was in Minny (exception of last couple games). Teams do that all the time. But how much risk are you going to carry with a player? Eagles gave Vick 2 years $7M lol.

Now again, if I look at a guy who has been out of football for 1 year (with a projected possible out for another season), it's a poor investment. This is not an injury where you can have doctors confirm he's good to go. This is something different. You don't know how this will mentally impact the player, locker room, coaching staff, fans (it's a business after all), etc. There's no way to medically evaluate that.

Point being, that's a HUGE risk for an organization to take and since the NFL owners only care about one color (Green) is that a poor move? Most would argue yes. It's showing all your chips on red or black and letting the dealer drop the ball.

Do organizations take big risks? Well, yah. One that sizeable? I mean... the Browns did. Show me another team that's done something like that or was willing to do something like that? I don't think many other organizations were willing to do that. If you told me: "Confirmed by Houston GM that 12 teams met with Houston and the requirement was 3 1st rounders and $200M guaranteed for Watson" - fine... ya got me.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

he said there was a certain threshold to be considered.

Actually what he said is "I think there is a certain threshold that I established" without giving so much as a hint at what that so called threshold is or if it was plainly established with numbers (otherwise no need to say -"I think"). Obviously in talks you can get a feel at who is most interested and narrow down the field if you wish but what teams were willing to offer is a complete unknown that produced some crazy speculation from the media and fans. I would go as far as saying the teams that check in on trading for Watson weren't even sure what they would be willing to give as there were so many factors to consider like health,suspension, Watson competitive desire, his contract demands, PR backlash and so on.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Actually what he said is "I think there is a certain threshold that I established" without giving so much as a hint at what that so called threshold is or if it was plainly established with numbers (otherwise on need to say -"I think"). Obviously in talks you can get a feel at who is most interested and narrow down the field if you wish but what teams were willing to offer is a complete unknown that produced some crazy speculation from the media and fans. I would go as far as saying the teams that check in on trading for Watson weren't even sure what they would be willing to give as there were so many factors to consider like health,suspension, Watson competitive desire, his contract demands, PR backlash and so on.

Kind of goes to some of my above posts (don't expect you to read my novels) where I've summarized: "You don't know what 'major' means and you're talking about not only draft picks but the contract too, so why are you trying to justify something you know nothing about? What does 'interested' mean or what is the 'threshold'?"

I mean I have 29 forum members interested in the stuffed human head I have of my first Florida surfing victim... I don't like @All-Star Benchwarmer but now he's willing to give up $291K and 41 pairs of used swim shorts, so I've contacted my legal team to draft up the contracts.

 

[Shanemansj13]

That’s not true. There was a final group. The Browns were out and then got back in by offering a contract no one else would.

Yeah I am not sure the exact teams that were in the final group…I remember Atlanta and New Orleans I believe those were the main two or only two in the final group.

Watson either didn’t want to go to CLE or they were out…makes more sense Watson was out NOW.

CLE offers the new deal. I’m sure his agent gives the other teams a chance to match (it makes sense) and they didn’t apparently.

The end is history. I want to forget it all

 

[dtgold88]

Picking this point out because it's something new you brought up (that I've seen anyway).

Sure, I think some teams did think they may get the Houston version of Watson. I think that's okay. I think Seattle is hoping Sam Darnold will be what he was in Minny (exception of last couple games). Teams do that all the time. But how much risk are you going to carry with a player? Eagles gave Vick 2 years $7M lol.

Now again, if I look at a guy who has been out of football for 1 year (with a projected possible out for another season), it's a poor investment. This is not an injury where you can have doctors confirm he's good to go. This is something different. You don't know how this will mentally impact the player, locker room, coaching staff, fans (it's a business after all), etc. There's no way to medically evaluate that.

Point being, that's a HUGE risk for an organization to take and since the NFL owners only care about one color (Green) is that a poor move? Most would argue yes. It's showing all your chips on red or black and letting the dealer drop the ball.

Do organizations take big risks? Well, yah. One that sizeable? I mean... the Browns did. Show me another team that's done something like that or was willing to do something like that? I don't think many other organizations were willing to do that. If you told me: "Confirmed by Houston GM that 12 teams met with Houston and the requirement was 3 1st rounders and $200M guaranteed for Watson" - fine... ya got me.

Maybe I'm missing something here but Watson was not an injury risk at time he was up to be dealt. Had not missed a game due to injury since his rookie season?

Never said 12 teams met with Houston......said maybe a half dozen teams (confirmed as at least 4) by Houston as those were the teams Watson was willing to go to. Honestly was surprised found something from the actual GM confirming this...but did (figured would only be the reports from the reputable sources so many knew about).

 

[Xeliou66]

I’m so glad my Falcons didn’t get Watson, I know we had strong interest. We really dodged a massive bullet. Sure we had to suffer through the awfulness of Mariota/Ridder/Heinicke at QB for 2 years, but now things look to be on track for us, while the Browns are still in chaos because of the Deshaun trade.

 

[dtgold88]

Actually what he said is "I think there is a certain threshold that I established" without giving so much as a hint at what that so called threshold is or if it was plainly established with numbers (otherwise no need to say -"I think"). Obviously in talks you can get a feel at who is most interested and narrow down the field if you wish but what teams were willing to offer is a complete unknown that produced some crazy speculation from the media and fans. I would go as far as saying the teams that check in on trading for Watson weren't even sure what they would be willing to give as there were so many factors to consider like health,suspension, Watson competitive desire, his contract demands, PR backlash and so on.

He actually gave a much bigger hint than I expected here as most GMs are like the CIA and don't give away any trade intel. any team that met with him (and we know at least 4..likely 5-6) had to be willing to offer three firsts.

Would more offer close to as much in guarantees? Not sure. But anyone willing to trade the haul they were assumed the guy could play and play well (like he had in Houston). Assuming that the guarantee was really a nonissue as the Browns would have been glad to oay it as he would be underpaid within a year or 2 and likely wanting another extension (which would have been paid). Cannot make a deal thinking a 26-year-old guy would forget how to play football.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Maybe I'm missing something here but Watson was not an injury risk at time he was up to be dealt. Had not missed a game due to injury since his rookie season?

Never said 12 teams met with Houston......said maybe a half dozen teams (confirmed as at least 4) by Houston as those were the teams Watson was willing to go to. Honestly was surprised found something from the actual GM confirming this...but did (figured would only be the reports from the reputable sources so many knew about).

I never said that either. I said the red flags he carried due to his misconduct carried a TON of red flags for an organization. The player itself (character/mentality), locker room, coaching staff, fanbase, etc. certainly carried a monetary and trade impact for the player. And regardless of injury, any player out of football for almost 2 years... you're likely just not going to come back the same (just conditioning, keeping up on concepts, the character prob. means that person doesn't care... etc.).

That should have a severe impact on what a team is trading/paying someone like that. The Browns didn't see that the same, they said "Fuck it, we're paying anyway." Fine... your entire notion which we just keep going over and over that other teams were going to give the same compensation is kind of laughable.