2022 New Head Coach - Candidates and Favorites

[SpringStein]

I am really looking at Hackett and like what he would bring. After Fangio's ho hum personality an energetic guy like Hackett could be exactly what we need. Rodgers gave him a ringing endorsement yesterday and praised not only his work in GB but what he did with that Jacksonville offense a few years back. He is rising to my first choice regardless of whether that brings Rodgers in or not.

Let me feed your appetite:

Nathaniel Hackett Has What It Takes—and a Lot More

The Packers’ offensive coordinator could have been a doctor or a dancer. This winter, he will be among the NFL’s most sought-after coaches.

www.si.com

 

[megalodon30]

Best way to rank Roethlisberger's career, IMO is probably a tier between the elite guys and good guys... So something like between (Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc) and Philip Rivers/Matt Ryan (In their prime). In the middle of this spectrum.

He has as many rings as Rodgers and Brees combined. He may not quite have their numbers, but if you’re a Saints or Packers fan, wouldn’t you trade getting to watch an “elite” QB for getting to watch a top 10 QB that gets you an extra ring?

 

[SpringStein]

He has as many rings as Rodgers and Brees combined. He may not quite have their numbers, but if you’re a Saints or Packers fan, wouldn’t you trade getting to watch an “elite” QB for getting to watch a top 10 QB that gets you an extra ring?

I don't agree that rating QBs by rings has great merit. Supporting cast has a lot to do with rings - and the Steelers have been called the Iron Curtain for a long time, and that had nothing to do with their QB. Is the QB key to a great team? Almost always. But there are always other facors. Put Ben on the same Packers teams and I don't believe they would have won more than they have won with Rodgers.

My eyeballs tell me that Ben was an outstanding QB for a long time, but I also wouldn't consider him elite,

 

[Draft Crazy]

He has as many rings as Rodgers and Brees combined. He may not quite have their numbers, but if you’re a Saints or Packers fan, wouldn’t you trade getting to watch an “elite” QB for getting to watch a top 10 QB that gets you an extra ring?

Of course anyone would want a Super Bowl ring over not having one... But we aren't talking about Super Bowl rings. We are talking about what QB is better.

That's like saying I would rather have Trent Dilfer then Dan Marino because Dilfer won a Super Bowl. Of course I would rather a Super Bowl but Marino is still the WAY better player.

 

[megalodon30]

I don't agree that rating QBs by rings has great merit. Supporting cast has a lot to do with rings - and the Steelers have been called the Iron Curtain for a long time, and that had nothing to do with their QB. Is the QB key to a great team? Almost always. But there are always other facors. Put Ben on the same Packers teams and I don't believe they would have won more than they have won with Rodgers.

My eyeballs tell me that Ben was an outstanding QB for a long time, but I also wouldn't consider him elite,

Put Ben on the Packers of the past 15 seasons and do they win less than they have with Rodgers? Possibly. But I doubt they lose considerably more. I’m betting Ben wouldn’t end up far off pace of Rodgers.

And who’s to say Roethlisberger couldn’t get them a 2nd ring? Could play the what if scenario all day long, but the fact is Ben got 2 rings and has nice stats to match. Maybe not “all-time” great numbers, but he was certainly a top 5-10 QB every year in his prime. He was great, even if not all-time great.

 

[Orange Crush77]

Ben is as tough as they come, there might not be anyone tougher. He’s played through some pretty bad injuries. I just can’t get over his sexual assault allegations. If they were true it makes him the lowest form of life

 

[megalodon30]

Of course anyone would want a Super Bowl ring over not having one... But we aren't talking about Super Bowl rings. We are talking about what QB is better.

That's like saying I would rather have Trent Dilfer then Dan Marino because Dilfer won a Super Bowl. Of course I would rather a Super Bowl but Marino is still the WAY better player.

Well I don’t mean to just compare rings alone. Ben’s stats may have him just on the cusp of elite status, but I think it’s fair to say the rings can give him that leeway, if someone wanted to put him in the status of elite.

If it were just about rings, we’d have to talk about how Eli was just as great as Ben and even Peyton considering he won just as much as they did.

 

[Draft Crazy]

Well I don’t mean to just compare rings alone. Ben’s stats may have him just on the cusp of elite status, but I think it’s fair to say the rings can give him that leeway, if someone wanted to put him in the status of elite.

If it were just about rings, we’d have to talk about how Eli was just as great as Ben and even Peyton considering he won just as much as they did.

If we compared rings alone it would mean Mike Lodish was a Hall of Famer.... I think Ben makes a good argument for being "elite", but in my world I wouldn't call him "elite", like I said I would have him in that category between elite and Rivers/Ryan. Which means he is close to elite but not in the same category as guys like Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Marino, Elway, Unitas, Montana, etc... I just can't put him in that same category because he just simply doesn't belong there, IMO.

We have elite
Then guys like Roeth
Then guys like Rivers/Ryan
Then guys like Derek Carr
Then guys like Tyrod Taylor
Then crud!

 

[megalodon30]

If we compared rings alone it would mean Mike Lodish was a Hall of Famer.... I think Ben makes a good argument for being "elite", but in my world I wouldn't call him "elite", like I said I would have him in that category between elite and Rivers/Ryan. Which means he is close to elite but not in the same category as guys like Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Marino, Elway, Unitas, Montana, etc... I just can't put him in that same category because he just simply doesn't belong there, IMO.

We have elite
Then guys like Roeth
Then guys like Rivers/Ryan
Then guys like Derek Carr
Then guys like Tyrod Taylor
Then crud!

That’s fair. I can see the argument for why some would call him elite, but certainly see your reasoning for him being just behind those guys.

All in all, he’ll go down in NFL history as the only QB to lose to Tim Tebow in the postseason, so I’ll never forget him, that’s for sure…

 

[SpiritOf77]

While I agree that there is more that goes into defining a player's career than SB rings, IMHO, there is much more that goes into defining a career than what immediately catches the eye in the way of stats or arm strength or quick release, etc

Ben Roethlisberger has defined a franchise, defined an entire city, for nearly two decades with his style of football - he could be counted on both physically and mentally to deliver the goods, and there is absolutely no way to try to determine whether if Dan Marino or Aaron Rodger were with the Steelers how they would have fared ..

I am a big believer in chemistry - not simply the "rah rah" in the locker room, but in how a player fits with a system, how a system can be fit around a player, how a QB can influence a running game, a defense, a fanbase, a coaching staff, etc etc

I remember watching a halftime show years back, and someone said "you;ve got to have a running game to win" and Dan Marino quipped "WHY?" and then laughed .... The conversation quickly became uncomfortable when someone else chimed in with a "you wouldn't understand, you've never won a SB" type comment .. How would Dan Marino be viewed today had he played on a team that did not tailor an offense around him ?? .. Would he be viewed in the regard his is now if he were in a more balanced offense ??

My best friend Mike is a lifelong Fins fan, and we often have discussions about football -- he laments "if only Dan Marino had Terrel Davis or a running game" .. I counter with "He wouldn;t have been the Dan Marino you know had the Fins employed that offense" - as much as Marino had to do with their success, he also was a big factor in their limitations and failure to win a SB ..

Dan Marino was not really a QB who could make a RB better ... He never did it, so I say that with some confidence .. John Elway was .. Would the Broncos have won a SB without Davis ?? .. The logical answer is "no" - we had not won one without TD to that point, and when Elway left, the team fell apart, even though Elway was far from his prime .. We were what, 0-4 before Davis was injured ??

They complimented each other, and that is an elite trait in itself

That is part of the CHEMISTRY factor ...

"Elite" is more than stats or flash .. Elite can be grit, can be intelligence, can be anything that helps create a SB winning team

Elite can mean something different in every situation ...

Is the "elite" guitarist the guy who can sit in a Guitar Center by himself and play blazing fast, or is it the guy who understands how to put his talents into a composition and create something more than just sound ?? .. Someone who has an inpact on those around him .. He makes people better and can make other elite

The face of one of the NFL most stories franchises for nearly two decades, a leader on the field, two SB rings, great arm, great escape ability throughout most of his career, fans love the guy to death - that, in my book is "elite" ..

With that said, as OC mentioned, if the old accusations are true, the on field stuff and face of the city deal is meaningless to me ..

If I were a GM, and Big Ben and Drew Brees were both on the board, I'd have to give some serious thought to the pick

 

[SpringStein]

When I think of elite QBs, I think of players like;
Starr
Staubach
Montana
Marino
Elway
Manning
Brees
Rodgers
Brady
Rodgers

i don’t mean for this list to be exhaustive (I’m sure I’ve left off some obvious ones) or in order - or Brady would have been at the top.

The one thing most of these had that I never was impressed with Ben was leadership. I think his last several years he became more of a leader, but I didn’t see that for the majority of his career.

Just my opinion, and there’s no shame in being a very good to great QB. I just can’t consider him elite.

 

[SpringStein]

Current betting odds on the new coach:

• Nathaniel Hackett +300
• Dan Quinn +400
• Brian Callahan +400
• Jerod Mayo +500
• Kevin O’Connell +600
• Luke Getsy +800
• Eric Bieniemy +1000
• Jonathan Gannon +1200
• Doug Pederson +1200
• Kellen Moore +1500

 

[MileHigh64]

I personally don't want an offensive or defensive mind.. I think everyone gets caught up into your coach has to be an offensive or defensive mind, most likely because most are on or another.

I want a leader of men.

Which is why I probably have Jerod Mayo and Aaron Glenn higher than most will have them on their list. I don't think either will get the job though. Most would be unhappy because Glenn's D with Lions was ranked #31 but he had NOTHING there to support him. Most would be unhappy because Mayo is from the Patriots "coaching tree", they are leaders... I think in today's NFL that is really what you look for more then anything... Coaches who are respected, leaders and players will run through a brick wall for then surround them with good coordinators. That's really a recipe for success in the NFL today, IMO. Find a good leader to lead and find good coordinators.

I think this is why you see guys like Mike Martz fail so often in the NFL... Guy is an offensive genius but he is a stick in the mud jerk and players don't run through a brick wall for him as a Head Coach but he calls a nice play down on the field.

No offense but this reminds me of the communication spin running through Dove Valley when the Broncos hired Vance Joseph. I seem to recall a lot of the same story, "yeah, he doesn't have a lot of experience or any great accomplishments to hang his hat on but Vance Joseph is a LEADER OF MEN."

If one of these young guns is that guy and can actually do something with it, I'll be impressed. However, my preference would be someone who has a little more time in the foxhole. Mostly, I would just like the Broncos to start scoring points in games again. That would be nice. Seems like so long ago. Sigh....

 

[Draft Crazy]

I'm sorry but because one person fails (without good resources too) doesn't mean EVERY other person is going to fail.
I can name you plenty of offensive minds, defensive minds and leader of men that have failed. Does that mean we can't hire anyone? What do we hire then? Someone that likes to sniff glue?

 

[MileHigh64]

I'm sorry but because one person fails (without good resources too) doesn't mean EVERY other person is going to fail.
I can name you plenty of offensive minds, defensive minds and leader of men that have failed. Does that mean we can't hire anyone? What do we hire then? Someone that likes to sniff glue?

I'm sure that there are some leader of men out there that could come in here and get the team on the right track. It was just that particular phrase brought back some bad memories for me. All good!

By the way, glue sniffing is under-rated.

 

[Mingo]

I'm sorry but because one person fails (without good resources too) doesn't mean EVERY other person is going to fail.
I can name you plenty of offensive minds, defensive minds and leader of men that have failed. Does that mean we can't hire anyone? What do we hire then? Someone that likes to sniff glue?

@LGM? Pronounced Galoo

 

[Mingo]

I was also thinking Vance got hired as a "leader of men." VJ - though got told by Elway who his coaches were going to be - immediately under cutting VJ's leadership stature among the coaches and players.

 

[CEH]

so what exactly is a “leader of men “ and during an interview how to you determine that?

 

[fightinredantz]

so what exactly is a “leader of men “ and during an interview how to you determine that?

The “leader of men” is probably determined by talking to others that have worked with or for these coaches.

 

[Draft Crazy]

I'm sure that there are some leader of men out there that could come in here and get the team on the right track. It was just that particular phrase brought back some bad memories for me. All good!

By the way, glue sniffing is under-rated.

I figure if a coach will sniff glue he’s got that crazy aspect to him.