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2021-2022 NBA Season

Mecca of the “B” Team

ClipGangOrDontBang
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@Mecca makes a lot of valid points. Having said that, if Lebron's not bought in, the rest of the roster won't follow suit. You'd have to be an elite established coach to turn that thing in LA around; only Pop, Spo and maybe Kerr have any type of cache to stand up to Lebron in terms of active coaches given their respective resumes. Vogel's not in the same league as those guys. In the end, he'll be gone.
Exactly.

This isn't hard to understand.

I'm not going to shit on Vogel. He's a decent Coach.

But, he has clearly lost this roster.

LeBron checks in and out at will.

LeBron decides if he plays.

LeBron decides on play calls.

Is some of that well deserved Superstar treatment?

Yes.

Guy is the 2nd best player EVER.

But, when that treatment undermines the authority of the Head Coach, its a problem.

Vogel might as well be David Blatt. You know, the guy they fired because he couldn't hold LeBron accountable?

He's allegedly a pretty good Coach too.

Still got fired.
 

bksballer89

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Dude, I am perfectly capable of seeing there is some shared blame here.

It's not all on Vogel.

2/3 of the blame goes to other issues.

But, stop acting like we are talking about Phil Jackson, Red or John Wooden.

This guy was your 3rd choice.

He's a average overall coach who has a good reputation for defense.

Nothing more.

The Lakers might not have had to overcome his blunders to win despite him.

But, they most certainly didn't win a championship because of him.

He's a nuttered puppy who simply kisses Lebron's ring.

It's not rocket science why his team quit him.

He was so bad that they hired kidd with him and guaranteed the job to him when the Lakers decide to fire vogel
 

Mecca of the “B” Team

ClipGangOrDontBang
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Let’s be serious here, Lebron is not going to play for a coach that tries much out of the norm, not at this point in his career. Spoelstra was the last guy he played for with much of a backbone.
Ty Lue?

The guy they didn't want to pay the extra year and wanted to pick assistants?
 

thunderc

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Guy is the 2nd best player EVER.
So I have decided to make a life change. Anytime anyone mentions the top players of all time I am going to say Kareem has to be in the conversation. So I am willing to concede Lebron is top 3.
 

Mecca of the “B” Team

ClipGangOrDontBang
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A part of it is. Roster construction isn't on him. The ability to make changes on the fly is coaching? The team frequently coming out looking like ass to start the game or 2nd half is coaching also.

Has he done anything to help the defense? Did he realize most of these guys can't stay in front of man so let's try to implement a zone? How about lets try a little full court press here and there so when the offense get into their offense, they may have only 14 or 15 seconds to work with
He makes some wacky ass rotations at times.

But, that is because he's trying to make wine out of sewer water.

The motivation?

Well, if the stories about everyone outside of Vogel and the player in question believing that Westbrick should be benched and he won't do it are true....

Well, I'd be a bit mutinous myself.

As for making adjustments?

I can honestly say at least 3 of the Clippers wins against the Lakers can be chalked up to the fact that TY Lue absolutely out coached him.

Again: When you start cooking with toilet water, no matter how much seasoning you add, everything still tastes like shit.
 

Mecca of the “B” Team

ClipGangOrDontBang
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So I have decided to make a life change. Anytime anyone mentions the top players of all time I am going to say Kareem has to be in the conversation. So I am willing to concede Lebron is top 3.
Agree.

I waffle between the two.

But, when he passes Kareem, the debate will be settled for me.
 

trojanfan12

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But, stop acting like we are talking about Phil Jackson, Red or John Wooden.

Why does have to be like we're talking about any coaches like those when sayibng a coach who isn't the problem doesn't deserve to be fired?

All I've seen as far as reasons he should be fired are "because that's what you do even if it's not the coaches fault".

They should have been better. Yeah, they should have, they also shouldn't have had 10 guys who were supposed to be in the rotation miss a combined total of 229 games 68 games into the season.

There is a whole laundry list of shit that has gone wrong with this team before you ever get close to who the coach is.

And exactly who are they going to hire? Last I heard, Pop, Spo and Kerr already have jobs.
 

trojanfan12

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Well, if the stories about everyone outside of Vogel and the player in question believing that Westbrick should be benched and he won't do it are true....

They aren't. Vogel had to get the okay when he did bench Westbrook for a game. He has also held himout late in a coupleofgames when he was playing like hammered shit.
 

tlance

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Why does have to be like we're talking about any coaches like those when sayibng a coach who isn't the problem doesn't deserve to be fired?

All I've seen as far as reasons he should be fired are "because that's what you do even if it's not the coaches fault".

They shouldhave been better. Yeah, they should have, they also shouldn't have had 10 guys who were supposed to be in the rotation miss a combined total of 229 games 68 games into the season.

There is a whole laundry list of shit that has gone wrong with this team before you ever get close to who the coach is.

And exactly who are they going to hire? Last I heard, Pop, Spo and Kerr already have jobs.

It is his fault though.

It is also the front office, it is ownership, it is LeBron, it is Russ and pretty much every other player on the team.

They are all part of it, they are all guilty to varying degrees.

Vogel is far from an innocent victim in all this. He has not done his job well at all.

What added value does he bring to this team?
 

thunderc

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Agree.

I waffle between the two.

But, when he passes Kareem, the debate will be settled for me.
I too got MJ as the goat but Kareem is in that conversation too for me. He was just so unique and he had it all.
 

thunderc

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It is his fault though.

It is also the front office, it is ownership, it is LeBron, it is Russ and pretty much every other player on the team.

They are all part of it, they are all guilty to varying degrees.

Vogel is far from an innocent victim in all this. He has not done his job well at all.

What added value does he bring to this team?
It’s the NBA too, allowing these guys to gang up doesn’t always work out.
 

The Q

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tenor.gif

That right there is why weed shouldn’t be legal

Dude high af making that offer lol
 

trojanfan12

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It is his fault though.

It is also the front office, it is ownership, it is LeBron, it is Russ and pretty much every other player on the team.

They are all part of it, they are all guilty to varying degrees.

Vogel is far from an innocent victim in all this. He has not done his job well at all.

What added value does he bring to this team?

Vogel didn't insist on Westbrook, he didn't injure anyone and he's done his best to put some kind of consistent groupon the floor,but can't because guys keepgoing inand out of the lineupand some of the guys they've needed have played like ass when they've had the chance to play.

I've watched most of every game,I have yet to see Vogel miss a shot, commit a turnover or have someone blow past him on defense.

As for added value, exactly what coach are the Lakers going to get that is going to be better?
 

trojanfan12

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I too got MJ as the goat but Kareem is in that conversation too for me. He was just so unique and he had it all.

Also had the most unblockable shot in history. He could probably still hit 3 or 4 in agame. lol
 

The Q

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It is his fault though.

It is also the front office, it is ownership, it is LeBron, it is Russ and pretty much every other player on the team.

They are all part of it, they are all guilty to varying degrees.

Vogel is far from an innocent victim in all this. He has not done his job well at all.

What added value does he bring to this team?

Vogel didn't insist on Westbrook, he didn't injure anyone and he's done his best to put some kind of consistent groupon the floor,but can't because guys keepgoing inand out of the lineupand some of the guys they've needed have played like ass when they've had the chance to play.

I've watched most of every game,I have yet to see Vogel miss a shot, commit a turnover or have someone blow past him on defense.

As for added value, exactly what coach are the Lakers going to get that is going to be better?

You both are right

Its probably not his best work

But who is available and better?

And he did put a banner when he may not have had the best team in his own city
 

tlance

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You both are right

Its probably not his best work

But who is available and better?

And he did put a banner when he may not have had the best team in his own city

It doesn’t even matter.

You have to change the coach. Absolute must.

Failing to change the coach is punting the 2023 season also.
 

Mecca of the “B” Team

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Why does have to be like we're talking about any coaches like those when sayibng a coach who isn't the problem doesn't deserve to be fired?

All I've seen as far as reasons he should be fired are "because that's what you do even if it's not the coaches fault".

They should have been better. Yeah, they should have, they also shouldn't have had 10 guys who were supposed to be in the rotation miss a combined total of 229 games 68 games into the season.

There is a whole laundry list of shit that has gone wrong with this team before you ever get close to who the coach is.

And exactly who are they going to hire? Last I heard, Pop, Spo and Kerr already have jobs.
Well, yeah...

You got me there.

Those guys are the elite of the elite.

I'm not saying fire Vogel just to do something..... ANYTHING.

I'm saying fire him because the team has quit on him.

Fire him because his words clearly hold no weight with anyone on the team.

Fire him to see if a new, more respected voice, can provide a spark.

You notice I have not mentioned Fizdale?

Because we've seen that movie already.

I have repeatedly said see what you have with Handy.

If he isn't Head Coach material, clean house this Summer.
 

Mecca of the “B” Team

ClipGangOrDontBang
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You both are right

Its probably not his best work

But who is available and better?

And he did put a banner when he may not have had the best team in his own city
We don't know if Handy can be better.

But, we know Vogel's words hold no weight.
 
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