2021-2022 NBA Season

[raptorlife4]

It was fun when Gasol shut Embild down i

 

[fightinfunbags]

It was fun when Gasol shut Embild down i

He had the dude’s number. I’m glad Canada had something to cheer for for once. I think it’s horrible that America has stolen Lord Stanley and refuses to give it back. It’s how we Americans feel when the Japanese or the Cubans win baseball at the Olympics.

 

[Wamu]

Except the defensive metrics point to Joker and not Embiid. And the only context I’ve brought up PPG is not about the points themselves but rather in the context of him being the first 5 since Shaq to potentially do that (not likely to happen now). You’re the guy who wants to embrace the strict statistical analysis not me. So the burden is on you to own the fact that many of these metrics are nonsense. You even admit that Embiid is the better defensive player but your almighty statistics tell a different story.

Yes Embiid's the better defensive player.

But.

Who's having the better offensive season? Which player is responsible for more total ppg? Meaning points + assists.

Of course you think the metrics are nonsense. Most of them favor Jokic. If they favored Embiid you wouldn't be saying their nonsense.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Yes Embiid's the better defensive player.

But.

Who's having the better offensive season? Which player is responsible for more total ppg? Meaning points + assists.

Of course you think the metrics are nonsense. Most of them favor Jokic. If they favored Embiid you wouldn't be saying their nonsense.

Actually, I’ve been very consistent on my stance that analytics is ruining sports. Even more so in baseball. They’ve completely ruined that sport.

 

[shopson67]

No. Any metric that says Jokic is a top half of the league defender is bull shit. That’s my point.

Ignore that metric then. Jokic also rebounds more and creates more points for his team. Even if you disregard whatever he does defensively, the two are neck and neck.

I seem to remember Dwight Howard having his best game in recent memory vs Embiid, 24/8 in only 28 minutes. Embiid had similar numbers once this season, in preseason, vs the Warriors playing without ANY bigs. Not saying that defines Embiid, but this idea that he is a defensive monster is overstated.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Ignore that metric then. Jokic also rebounds more and creates more points for his team. Even if you disregard whatever he does defensively, the two are neck and neck.

I’ve never said it wasn’t close. I’ve said it’s clear. And truth be told, I think Giannis has had a better season than Jokic as well. At the same time, I value two way play.

 

[shopson67]

Some people still think he's at risk for Injury because of his size.

Sure.

But, his history doesn't apply to this year, FOR ME, because every team has lost players to covid.

No need to worry.

People thought injuries would derail Curry's career after his first few years as well.

Worked out okay.

Embiid is not Blake Griffin.

Embiid is at risk because he's Embiid. Past history projected forward with more proclivity for injury with age added.

 

[shopson67]

You're making an appeal solely based on statistics and I am poking a hole in the validity of a purely statistical approach. Don't tell me "I didn't say" because you can't comprehend what you're actually saying. No one made you adopt a purely statistical approach. You did that. So come up with a defense of metrics that say this due is a top 5 defender or own the fact that a purely statistical approach to this is ass. You choose.

Your "eyes" vs multiple different statistics isn't exactly a irrefutable argument.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Embiid is at risk because he's Embiid. Past history projected forward with more proclivity for injury with age added.

Yep. He’s a big man with feet and back issues in his history. By all rights, he should be Greg Oden. But he’s not. And part of that comes from the Sixers being careful with him for years.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Your "eyes" vs multiple different statistics isn't exactly a irrefutable argument.

It should be everybody’s eyes. If someone tries to tell you that Embiid and Jokic are close as defensive players just walk away because that person doesn’t know dick about basketball

 

[shopson67]

Actually, I’ve been very consistent on my stance that analytics is ruining sports. Even more so in baseball. They’ve completely ruined that sport.

Analytics is what has led to this new 3pt dominant version of NBA basketball. Things have backslid a little though.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Analytics is what has led to this new 3pt dominant version of NBA basketball. Things have backslid a little though.

I just wish people would be consistent. It seems like Embiid gets mocked or knocked down a peg because he scores from the line. Meanwhile, analytics are supposed to award the efficiency of a guy stopping the clock and earning points without a field goal attempt.

 

[shopson67]

I just wish people would be consistent. It seems like Embiid gets mocked or knocked down a peg because he scores from the line. Meanwhile, analytics are supposed to award the efficiency of a guy stopping the clock and earning points without a field goal attempt.

I think the impression is that he is getting bailed out by being sent to the line, getting more calls than most (at least according to those detractors you are speaking of). I like that Embiid has focused more in the paint instead of hanging out at the arc as much as past years.

 

[trojanfan12]

Actually, I’ve been very consistent on my stance that analytics is ruining sports. Even more so in baseball. They’ve completely ruined that sport.

I dont necessarily agree that they have ruined sports...but the effect hasnt been as entirely positive as a lot of the analytics folks would like us to believe.

There have been some pretty cool things that have happened in sports that may not have if the coach/manager looked at analytics instead of trusting his instincts.

For example, if analytics were used instead of Lasordas instincts in 1988, we likely dont have what has to be the least talented World Series champs in history. lol

On the other hand, it is analytics that made the 3 a much bigger part of basketball and gave us Steph Curry.

 

[shopson67]

It should be everybody’s eyes. If someone tries to tell you that Embiid and Jokic are close as defensive players just walk away because that person doesn’t know dick about basketball

Nobody is disagreeing that Embiid isn't better defensively than Jokic. You are fighting a strawman argument.

 

[Wamu]

It should be everybody’s eyes. If someone tries to tell you that Embiid and Jokic are close as defensive players just walk away because that person doesn’t know dick about basketball

What about the offensive comparison?

Oh yeah, you don't want to discuss that.

And the only head to head numbers that you pay attention to is the one Embiid has the lead in.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Nobody is disagreeing that Embiid isn't better defensively than Jokic. You are fighting a strawman argument.

Oy

I am not. I’m fighting the undue emphasis on statistics and to that end, I’m pointing out the most glaring. Of course everyone agrees that Embiid is the better defensive player. That’s why I’m arguing with an emphasis on the defensive statistics that show these guys are close and in some instances Joker is supposed to be better according to the statistic.

 

[fightinfunbags]

What about the offensive comparison?

Oh yeah, you don't want to discuss that.

And the only head to head numbers that you pay attention to is the one Embiid has the lead in.

The offensive comparison does nothing to separate these guys. Both are dominant offensive players. Didn’t we already do this?

 

[Wamu]

Jokic leads the league in...


-win shares

- box +/-

-value over replacement players

-player efficiency rating


**Is the only player in the top 10 in pts, rebs, asts. Leads the league in double-doubles & trip-dubs.**

But, but, but Embiid averages more points & is a better defender. <---somehow those are the only numbers that matter

 

[fightinfunbags]

Jokic leads the league in...


-win shares

- box +/-

-value over replacement players

-player efficiency rating

Is the only player in the top 10 in pts, rebs, asts. Leads the league in double-doubles & trip-dubs.

But, but, but Embiid averages more points & is a better defender. <---and those are the only numbers that matter

Or quite simply Joel Embiid is the better basketball player when one assesses both ends of the court.

But you can VORP all you like.