2020 Trade Chatter

[LHG]

We've already started trade discussions but I thought I'd start a new thread so we have one spot to go to, in case any of us need to refer back to something.
Here are a few threads where we've had trade discussions prior to now:
Game Thread: - 8.23 Sssss @ Cahill
So you're telling me there's a chance...?

 

[LHG]

So far, its Gausman that has the most talk going on about him, if the Giants become sellers:
https://www.sny.tv/articles/sources-yankees-call-giants-about-pitcher-kevin-gausman
Pitching likely to be focus at deadline, with Blue Jays looking to add - Sportsnet.ca

 

[stanford the manford]

Realistically, when do we think the Giants will be legit contenders for NL West.. not a fluke, but based on roster vs other NL W teams?

I can't see it happening in '21 nor '22 given where they are and where the competition is. Maybe '23 if Kapler turns out to be legit, maybe '24, '25 if they need to reset with a new FO/Mngr.

So I'm where I was in '16. You need to pick a year where they can be a contender year in - year out and make sure the roster is building for that date +3yrs. IMO we wasted 4 yrs, the horizon should have been '19->'22.

Keep some vets taht will fill positions and be good clubhouse/field guys... but get some young talent you can groom and protect. FFS determine if FZ/GK are your guys and do it quickly, otherwise we'll need to reset just as we did post BS/BBoch.

So if we're looking at a '23-'26 roster, Bart is still interesting - who else? I'm pretty sure BB9, Buster and BCraw (love 'em) will not be in the mix. Neither will Cueto, Shark, Longo and most all the current roster. Fire sale and start building - stat!

 

[calsnowskier]

Realistically, when do we think the Giants will be legit contenders for NL West.. not a fluke, but based on roster vs other NL W teams?

I can't see it happening in '21 nor '22 given where they are and where the competition is. Maybe '23 if Kapler turns out to be legit, maybe '24, '25 if they need to reset with a new FO/Mngr.

So I'm where I was in '16. You need to pick a year where they can be a contender year in - year out and make sure the roster is building for that date +3yrs. IMO we wasted 4 yrs, the horizon should have been '19->'22.

Keep some vets taht will fill positions and be good clubhouse/field guys... but get some young talent you can groom and protect. FFS determine if FZ/GK are your guys and do it quickly, otherwise we'll need to reset just as we did post BS/BBoch.

So if we're looking at a '23-'26 roster, Bart is still interesting - who else? I'm pretty sure BB9, Buster and BCraw (love 'em) will not be in the mix. Neither will Cueto, Shark, Longo and most all the current roster. Fire sale and start building - stat!

I think we can be “good” next year, and a contender by ‘22. My concern, though, is our pitching. We have a few mid-rotation prospects, but no one expected to be an ace. That means we need to find one in the draft who can move up fast or we need to buy one or more from outside the org (trade or FA).

As for wasted years, I agree. I mapped out a plan a few years ago that would have had us a serious contender by now. But that plan was assuming the Giants only consideration is winning championships and not concerned with maintaining cash flow or getting attendance. One thing us fans often forget is that the Giants are a business first. They need to make a profit, even in the lean years. Therefore, they can’t do a tear-it-down-to-the-frame rebuild. That just doesn’t make financial sense.

 

[SFGRTB]

I think we can be “good” next year, and a contender by ‘22. My concern, though, is our pitching. We have a few mid-rotation prospects, but no one expected to be an ace. That means we need to find one in the draft who can move up fast or we need to buy one or more from outside the org (trade or FA).

As for wasted years, I agree. I mapped out a plan a few years ago that would have had us a serious contender by now. But that plan was assuming the Giants only consideration is winning championships and not concerned with maintaining cash flow or getting attendance. One thing us fans often forget is that the Giants are a business first. They need to make a profit, even in the lean years. Therefore, they can’t do a tear-it-down-to-the-frame rebuild. That just doesn’t make financial sense.

I agree with this. I can see us being reasonable contenders by 2022 if some of these stud prospects pan out, but they're really going to need to address this pitching staff. At some point they're going to need to swing a trade for some high-profile pitchers.

 

[SFGRTB]

So far, its Gausman that has the most talk going on about him, if the Giants become sellers:
https://www.sny.tv/articles/sources-yankees-call-giants-about-pitcher-kevin-gausman
Pitching likely to be focus at deadline, with Blue Jays looking to add - Sportsnet.ca

Wonder if the Giants could pry Clint Frazier away from the Yankees. Get that man out of New York already!

 

[stanford the manford]

I think we can be “good” next year, and a contender by ‘22. My concern, though, is our pitching. We have a few mid-rotation prospects, but no one expected to be an ace. That means we need to find one in the draft who can move up fast or we need to buy one or more from outside the org (trade or FA).

As for wasted years, I agree. I mapped out a plan a few years ago that would have had us a serious contender by now. But that plan was assuming the Giants only consideration is winning championships and not concerned with maintaining cash flow or getting attendance. One thing us fans often forget is that the Giants are a business first. They need to make a profit, even in the lean years. Therefore, they can’t do a tear-it-down-to-the-frame rebuild. That just doesn’t make financial sense.

Coupla things.... A solid staff without an ace can be a perfectly good strategy IMO. Need to be solid top to bottom including bully

IMO, more than players the organization need to commit to the FO and managerial staff. They will set the tone. Again love him to death, but Boch was not going to be around in '19+, so we wasted 3yrs while he was a 'placeholder'. And I know how rough that sounds. Point is FZ/GK need to be anointed or we need to move on. Doyers (and rightfully so) are all in with their FO and Roberts and thats the only way to move forward.

Somewhat disagree on Biz-first-can't-tear-it-down. It's going to happen sooner or later. I prefer sooner. FWIW I've been involved in this discussion re: Silicon Valley companies and startups for the better part of 3 decades. Have a plan, take your pill, and eat your own ASAP... IMO Giant's season tix holders are pissed (I know I am) and have no reason to renew in '21. I expect to walk up day of the game and get my same season holder seat for $.10 on the dollar. Corporate money has shifted to Chase Center... Oracle/ATT/PacBell is no longer the shiny object. I would have loved to see a non-retread roster in '17- '18-'19 while drinking $13 beers

 

[SFGRTB]

On the 'buying' side, I wonder if the Giants would look to swing a trade for Mike Clevinger. Not sure what it would take, but certainly a decent price.

 

[LHG]

On the 'buying' side, I wonder if the Giants would look to swing a trade for Mike Clevinger. Not sure what it would take, but certainly a decent price.

I have to think that the fallout from his bucking the team's COVID procedures has to damage his value but what I don't know is how many teams are really going to be buyers. That would really set the baseline for what the Indians would end up taking (or whether they would be taking). My question, though, is if the Giants are buyers, why would the Indians be sellers? They are 18-12 and only 1.5 games out of Minnesota (tied with the White Sox). I would think they'd be more serious about at least standing pat. Their rotation could possible give them the advantage in the playoffs.

 

[LHG]

Wonder if the Giants could pry Clint Frazier away from the Yankees. Get that man out of New York already!

Do you like him more than Jaylin Davis?

 

[LHG]

I think we can be “good” next year, and a contender by ‘22. My concern, though, is our pitching. We have a few mid-rotation prospects, but no one expected to be an ace. That means we need to find one in the draft who can move up fast or we need to buy one or more from outside the org (trade or FA).

As for wasted years, I agree. I mapped out a plan a few years ago that would have had us a serious contender by now. But that plan was assuming the Giants only consideration is winning championships and not concerned with maintaining cash flow or getting attendance. One thing us fans often forget is that the Giants are a business first. They need to make a profit, even in the lean years. Therefore, they can’t do a tear-it-down-to-the-frame rebuild. That just doesn’t make financial sense.

I agree with this. I can see us being reasonable contenders by 2022 if some of these stud prospects pan out, but they're really going to need to address this pitching staff. At some point they're going to need to swing a trade for some high-profile pitchers.

I have to think that, in order to get the kind of rotation needed to be serious, a few of the top prospects would be the trade bait. Signing older guys off the free agent market seems much more risky but it at least provides the team with more hitting depth than trading two or three of the top hitting prospects for pitching.

 

[SFGRTB]

I have to think that the fallout from his bucking the team's COVID procedures has to damage his value but what I don't know is how many teams are really going to be buyers. That would really set the baseline for what the Indians would end up taking (or whether they would be taking). My question, though, is if the Giants are buyers, why would the Indians be sellers? They are 18-12 and only 1.5 games out of Minnesota (tied with the White Sox). I would think they'd be more serious about at least standing pat. Their rotation could possible give them the advantage in the playoffs.

I think the thought about Clevinger is more about what your alluding to, completely breaking the team rules. He may have thrown his last pitch for the Indians.

But just in general, the Indians are pretty cheap and may not want to pay Clevinger the big bucks he's soon to be owed.

 

[SFGRTB]

Do you like him more than Jaylin Davis?

Yes, but this does bring up an interesting point. How much more do I like Frazier compared to Davis? Enough to trade Gausman and a lower-end prospect? Sure. Enough to trade a top prospect? No way

 

[SFGRTB]

I have to think that, in order to get the kind of rotation needed to be serious, a few of the top prospects would be the trade bait. Signing older guys off the free agent market seems much more risky but it at least provides the team with more hitting depth than trading two or three of the top hitting prospects for pitching.

There are some decent pitchers hitting the free agent market in the next few years that are on the younger side. Noah Syndergaard, Trevor Bauer, Mike Clevinger, Eduardo Rodriguez come to mind off the top of my head.

 

[LHG]

Yes, but this does bring up an interesting point. How much more do I like Frazier compared to Davis? Enough to trade Gausman and a lower-end prospect? Sure. Enough to trade a top prospect? No way

The Yankees have been kind of weird with Frazier. They refuse to trade him but go past him to fill out the roster or replace guys on the IL. He wasn't the first guy to get the nod when an outfielder went down. It took two outfielders and an infielder for him to get any kind of playing time this year.

 

[LHG]

There are some decent pitchers hitting the free agent market in the next few years that are on the younger side. Noah Syndergaard, Trevor Bauer, Mike Clevinger, Eduardo Rodriguez come to mind off the top of my head.

Syndergaard comes with huge red flags about his injury prone arm. Bauer I like but would he be willing to reconsider his idea of only signing 1 year deals as a free agent? Clevinger is, I think, the most intriguing of the bunch. Rodriguez seems pretty meh to me.

 

[SFGRTB]

The Yankees have been kind of weird with Frazier. They refuse to trade him but go past him to fill out the roster or replace guys on the IL. He wasn't the first guy to get the nod when an outfielder went down. It took two outfielders and an infielder for him to get any kind of playing time this year.

He could be a total nut-case, but the Yankees do have an embarrassment of riches. And knowing Stanton's injury history, and more recently Judge's injury history, they've have just enough reason to keep him around. Eventually they will need to move him or commit to him though.

 

[SFGRTB]

Syndergaard comes with huge red flags about his injury prone arm. Bauer I like but would he be willing to reconsider his idea of only signing 1 year deals as a free agent? Clevinger is, I think, the most intriguing of the bunch. Rodriguez seems pretty meh to me.

Unfortunately that's free agent pitching in a nutshell. Rarely is there ever an ideal scenario.

 

[LHG]

He could be a total nut-case, but the Yankees do have an embarrassment of riches. And knowing Stanton's injury history, and more recently Judge's injury history, they've have just enough reason to keep him around. Eventually they will need to move him or commit to him though.

Yes they do but not playing him the first chance that they get (Tauschman seems to be a higher priority for playing time), I think, hurts his trade value and doesn't make sense if they value him as much as they say that they do.

 

[LHG]

Unfortunately that's free agent pitching in a nutshell. Rarely is there ever an ideal scenario.

Thus my point. Better pitching can generally be found on the trade market but its more rare and costs a lot in terms of prospects.