2019-20 Quest for the cup(The Carter Hart era begins)

[lasgop8]

Coots is the stereotypical "don't notice him" guy. He has two 30 goal seasons in a row and is a point per game player on top of that. Not to mention he's one of the elite defensive forwards in hockey.

We can argue over lots of potential problems the Flyers have, but Couturier is not one of those problems. And I don't even like him that much, because you are right that there's very little flash in his game. But he consistently produces on both ends of the ice. Add his contract in to the equation and you'd be hard pressed to find a more valuable player in the entire NHL.

Probably the only player on the team where there is not one bad thing to say about him at this point in his career.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Fearless Forecast for the Flyers' 2019-20 season

Read the first paragraph.

That is a prediction as to what his potential can be, doesn't mean he fulfills it. I hope he does. Too many of these players disappear for long stretches. The first 10 games will be telling to me.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Coots is the stereotypical "don't notice him" guy. He has two 30 goal seasons in a row and is a point per game player on top of that. Not to mention he's one of the elite defensive forwards in hockey.

We can argue over lots of potential problems the Flyers have, but Couturier is not one of those problems. And I don't even like him that much, because you are right that there's very little flash in his game. But he consistently produces on both ends of the ice. Add his contract in to the equation and you'd be hard pressed to find a more valuable player in the entire NHL.

Problem is he and others seem to disappear when it's a super tough game. That's the trend that needs to stop. He is a good two way player, but until his all around game is consistent year in and year out I probably won't be impressed lol. Then again I don't matter much lol.

 

[awaz]

Probably the only player on the team where there is not one bad thing to say about him at this point in his career.

Yep. Agreed. He doesn't make the flashy plays or have that flashy skill set. But I don't think he's made a mistake or failed to do the "little thing" in 6 years.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Probably the only player on the team where there is not one bad thing to say about him at this point in his career.

I'm not knocking him, I'm just not overly impressed by him, lot of players in the league of his caliber.

 

[awaz]

Problem is he and others seem to disappear when it's a super tough game. That's the trend that needs to stop. He is a good two way player, but until his all around game is consistent year in and year out I probably won't be impressed lol. Then again I don't matter much lol.

As I've said a bunch, I really think the stars/vets get a lot of blame for the teams struggles that they don't deserve. The Flyers have dressed 4-5 guys that have no business playing regular NHL minutes every year since Hextall took over. The league is too good now, there are too many good players on other teams, to put that many guys out there that can't play at an NHL level. No NHL players, McDavid and Crosby included, bring their A game 60 minutes/night for 82 games/season. The teams that have depth are the ones that go far. It's all about increasing the odds that one of your good players has their A game at all times. The fewer good players you have, the higher the chances are that nobody has it that night.

Can the Flyers vets play better more often? Absolutely. But if you weren't turning to 19 year olds to back them up, or AHL caliber guys, they wouldn't have to be the best every second of every game.

 

[awaz]

I'm not knocking him, I'm just not overly impressed by him, lot of players in the league of his caliber.

That's just not correct. Sorry bud. Haha

 

[lasgop8]

Problem is he and others seem to disappear when it's a super tough game. That's the trend that needs to stop. He is a good two way player, but until his all around game is consistent year in and year out I probably won't be impressed lol. Then again I don't matter much lol.

With 30 plus goals the last few season and one of the best defensive forwards in the league who only makes 4.3 million Couts is the dream player for any team in the league. i wish we had two more Couts and less JVR's

 

[awaz]

Players that played over 20 games for the Flyers each year over the past 3 years, and where they ended up the next year.

2018-19
Corban Knight - KHL
Christian Folin - Montreal (healthy scratch last night though)
Jori Lehtera - KHL
Dale Weise - AHL
Phil Varone - AHL
Andrew MacDonald - recently cut from his PTO with the Flames

2017-18
Taylor Leier - AHL
Brandon Manning - AHL/healthy scratch
Dale Weise - (see above)
Jori Lehtera - (see above)
Andrew MacDonald - (see above)

2016-17
Chris VandeVelde - Finnish league
Andrew MacDonald - (see above)
Brandon Manning - (see above)
Dale Weise - (see above)
Roman Lyubimov - KHL
Nick Schultz - Out of hockey

You just can't be competitive in the NHL with sub-NHL talent filling your roster like this. Sure, every team has guys that aren't NHL talent, but in those seasons the Flyers had as much as 30% of their skaters as non-NHL level guys at times. And I'm not even counting the garbage the Flyers had out there for fewer than 20 games in those seasons. No amount of star power is going to overcome that. Ask McDavid and Draisatl.

 

[purdue81]

As I've said a bunch, I really think the stars/vets get a lot of blame for the teams struggles that they don't deserve. The Flyers have dressed 4-5 guys that have no business playing regular NHL minutes every year since Hextall took over. The league is too good now, there are too many good players on other teams, to put that many guys out there that can't play at an NHL level. No NHL players, McDavid and Crosby included, bring their A game 60 minutes/night for 82 games/season. The teams that have depth are the ones that go far. It's all about increasing the odds that one of your good players has their A game at all times. The fewer good players you have, the higher the chances are that nobody has it that night.

Can the Flyers vets play better more often? Absolutely. But if you weren't turning to 19 year olds to back them up, or AHL caliber guys, they wouldn't have to be the best every second of every game.

Let's accept your premise.... our top vets have had to carry too much of a load because of our lack of depth - "4-5 guys that have no business playing regular NHL minutes"....

How many on our roster today, in your opinion, have no business playing regular NHL minutes ? If the answer is zero, then we should expect our vets, over the long haul of the season, play, say 60 games "all out" ?

 

[awaz]

Let's accept your premise.... our top vets have had to carry too much of a load because of our lack of depth - "4-5 guys that have no business playing regular NHL minutes"....

How many on our roster today, in your opinion, have no business playing regular NHL minutes ? If the answer is zero, then we should expect our vets, over the long haul of the season, play, say 60 games "all out" ?

Looking at it today, I have doubts that Bunnaman and Twarynski are NHL caliber guys. Obviously I'm hopeful they are, and they're young so maybe they develop in to good bottom of the lineup guys. That was always the hope with them as 4th and 3rd rounders respectively. But they weren't anything special in the AHL last year, it'd be pretty optimistic to expect them to be good NHL-ers today.

On defense, I think Hagg is a fringe NHL guy at best. Morin isn't, certainly not at this stage of the season given his last two years. And I think Elliot is hanging by a thread in net. Hopefully they don't need him to carry a heavy load.

But that's what had me so optimistic for this year. That's only 3 skaters, compared to the 4-6 we've had the last 3 years (see previous post). And there's potential that some high-end prospects/young guys take all 3 of those spots in the coming months. When Patrick is healthy, he kicks Bunaman down. If/when Farabee or Frost blow the doors off, they kick Twarysnki down. And hopefully at some point Myers (or longshot Morin, IMO) can take back his spot from Hagg. It's relying on young guys stepping up, but at least with those young guys there's some history of dominating at lower levels. And I think we've all seen enough skill from Patrick, Frost, Farabee, and Myers to feel good about their ability to take a period or a game over. It might not be every night or even frequently, they're not stars, but maybe one of them carries the team one night when the rest of the group doesn't have it.

The guys I listed in this post and the previous one don't have the ability. And even worse, they're a net-negative most nights. So the other guys on the team, the one's that are NHL caliber, have to at least make up for the dead weight on the roster to be competitive each night. If we could go back and look at the last 3 seasons and identify the games where Giroux, Couturier, and Voracek all didn't have it in the same game, I would bet my savings the Flyers won less than 10% of those games.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

With 30 plus goals the last few season and one of the best defensive forwards in the league who only makes 4.3 million Couts is the dream player for any team in the league. i wish we had two more Couts and less JVR's

I never said I didn't want Coots on the team and maybe a couple more because besides him and Laughton we have no defensive minded forwards. Coots has plenty of room to shut me up for good. I guess maybe I just expect a little more flourish out of him.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

That's just not correct. Sorry bud. Haha

Do you really want to do a stats analysis on this lol. Lots of players have his numbers.

 

[awaz]

Do you really want to do a stats analysis on this lol. Lots of players have his numbers.

Please do. Make sure you filter out the ones that aren't consistently top 10 in Selke voting.

 

[lasgop8]

Looking at it today, I have doubts that Bunnaman and Twarynski are NHL caliber guys.l they are, and they're young so maybe they develop in to good bottom of the lineup guys. That was always the hope with them as 4th and 3rd rounders respectively. But they weren't anything special in the AHL last year, it'd be pretty optimistic to expect them to be good NHL-ers.

On defense, I think Hagg is a fringe NHL guy at best. Morin isn't, certainly not at this stage of the season given his last two years. And I think Elliot is hanging by a thread in net. Hopefully they don't need him to carry a heavy load.

But that's what had me so optimistic for this year. That's only 3 skaters, compared to the 4-6 we've had the last 3 years (see previous post). And there's potential that some high-end prospects/young guys take all 3 of those spots in the coming months. When Patrick is healthy, he kicks Bunaman down. If/when Farabee or Frost blow the doors off, they kick Twarysnki down. And hopefully at some point Myers (or longshot Morin, IMO) can take back his spot from Hagg. It's relying on young guys stepping up, but at least with those young guys there's some history of dominating at lower levels. And I think we've all seen enough skill from Patrick, Frost, Farabee, and Myers to feel good about their ability to take a period or a game over. It might not be every night or even frequently, they're not stars, but maybe one of them carries the team one night when the rest of the group doesn't have it.

You praised Hextall over the last few years and he is responsible for 90% of those guys.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Please do. Make sure you filter out the ones that aren't consistently top 10 in Selke voting.

Wouldn't matter if I did or didn't, the fact that players have the same stats doesn't mean their the same caliber of player either way.
I'll look it all up for you soon, we are now under pre evacuation here so I'll be in and out.

 

[lasgop8]

Please do. Make sure you filter out the ones that aren't consistently top 10 in Selke voting.

and only make 4.3 million per year.

 

[lasgop8]

Wouldn't matter if I did or didn't, the fact that players have the same stats doesn't mean their the same caliber of player either way.
I'll look it all up for you soon, we are now under pre evacuation here so I'll be in and out.

Please be safe and Gooooo Flyers!!!

 

[awaz]

Wouldn't matter if I did or didn't, the fact that players have the same stats doesn't mean their the same caliber of player either way.
I'll look it all up for you soon, we are now under pre evacuation here so I'll be in and out.

Safety first! Good luck man, hope everything works out for you and your family.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Please be safe and Gooooo Flyers!!!

Safety first! Good luck man, hope everything works out for you and your family.

Thank guys, everyone but me is gone. We've done this before unfortunately, I don't think it gets this far but with the winds here you never know.

As far as the convo goes, I like Coots a lot, love having him here, just kind of stirring the pot some.