2019-20 Off Season Thread

[pete6835]

I don't think Blues/Sharks matter, the Boston Juggernaut is running strong.

 

[pete6835]

Sent an email to the Sharks' front office requesting that they immediately disqualify the team from the playoffs, as this is a complete disgrace to the NHL community and society in general. Waiting for a reply from them.

It was easily the worst call in the combined history of all sports.

The Sharks will lose the next 3 games and be eliminated by St. Louis.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Well, gotta give the guy credit - he called it.

 

[shrksfn9192]

Well, gotta give the guy credit - he called it.

It wasn't that difficult, considering the Sharks' playoff history. It's only a matter of time before everything goes wrong for them.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

It wasn't that difficult, considering the Sharks' playoff history. It's only a matter of time before everything goes wrong for them.

I don't think anything went wrong for them, the Sharks played two extra rounds due to fortuitous officiating. The call against Vegas was horrible (granted, Vegas' vaunted PK looked like an AHL team and they also had a 3-0 lead with about 10 minutes left in the game), the call against Colorado and the infamous hand pass against the Blues extended what should have been realistically a first round exit.

It's unfortunate the injuries hit when they did, but as anyone will tell on these boards the last 21 years I am not a believer in injuries as an excuse - if your team is that good and that deep it shouldn't be an issue. My point however is the Hockey Gods called to collect the bill and it was paid accordingly with SJ not advancing. Nothing went wrong, it all went according to plan.

SJ has a losing mentality, and while I give Wilson credit for putting together a competitive team year in and year out, he always misses the mark on something every year. Every single time. Should be interesting to see what Wilson does this off season, there are some big decisions to make.

Curious to know your take on the Karlsson experiment. Opinion?

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Draft topic - was just checking to see where the Kings have picked in the 1st round throughout their history going back to 1967, how many times at that pick and who's still in the NHL. Below is what number they have picked and the players chosen:

1st - 1 (67 Rick Pagnutti)
2nd - 3 (81 Doug Smith, 86 Jimmy Carson, 08 Drew Doughty)
3rd - 2 (95 Aki Berg, 97 Olli Jokinen)
4th - 3 (80 Larry Murphy, 87 Wayne McBean, 07 Thomas Hickey)
5th - 2 (09 Brayden Schenn, 19 TBD)
6th - 1 (84 Craig Redmond)
7th - 3 (68 Jim McInally, 88 Martin Gelinas, 90 Daryl Sydor, 94 Jamie Storr)
8th - None
9th - 1 (85 Craig Duncanson)
10th - 2 (80 Jim Fox, 85 Dan Gratton)
11th - 3 (04 Lauri Tukonen, 05 Anze Kopitar, 06 Jonathon Bernier, 17 Gabe Vilardi)
12th - None
13th - 2 (03 Dustin Brown, 08 Colton Teubert)
14th - None
15th - 2 (97 Matt Zultek*, 10 Derek Forbort)
16th - 2 (75 Tim Young, 79 Jay Wells)
17th - 1 (06 Trevor Lewis)
18th - 2 (01 Jens Karlsson, 02 Denis Grebeshkov)
19th - None
20th - 2 (00 Alexander Frolov, 18 Rasmus Kupari)
21st - 1 (98 Mathieu Biron)
22nd - 1 (19 TBD)
23rd - None
24th - None
25th - None
26th - 1 (03 Brian Boyle)
27th - 1 (03 Jeff Tambellini)
28th - None
29th - 1 (14 Adrian Kempe)
30th - 2 (01 David Steckel, 12 Tanner Pearson)
31st - None

Interesting exercise seeing who did and didn't pan out.

* this guy should just be erased from Kings' draft history altogether. No idea how badly they missed on him.

 

[shrksfn9192]

I don't think anything went wrong for them, the Sharks played two extra rounds due to fortuitous officiating. The call against Vegas was horrible (granted, Vegas' vaunted PK looked like an AHL team and they also had a 3-0 lead with about 10 minutes left in the game), the call against Colorado and the infamous hand pass against the Blues extended what should have been realistically a first round exit.

It's unfortunate the injuries hit when they did, but as anyone will tell on these boards the last 21 years I am not a believer in injuries as an excuse - if your team is that good and that deep it shouldn't be an issue. My point however is the Hockey Gods called to collect the bill and it was paid accordingly with SJ not advancing. Nothing went wrong, it all went according to plan.

SJ has a losing mentality, and while I give Wilson credit for putting together a competitive team year in and year out, he always misses the mark on something every year. Every single time. Should be interesting to see what Wilson does this off season, there are some big decisions to make.

Curious to know your take on the Karlsson experiment. Opinion?

Understand and agree with your points. They had some very good fortune and it finally caught up to them. Also, on the other hand, they did a few things wrong to hurt themselves, one of which was running around and taking dumb penalties in the 3rd period of Game 5 vs. STL, giving themselves no chance to come back in that game.

While Wilson puts together a good team every year, he has missed when it comes to the intangibles, such as lacking the mental toughness to overcome injuries in the playoffs to reach the ultimate goal. They don't play a heavy or tough enough game. The last time they played that style was when Sutter was the head coach and Lombardi was the GM - 1997 to 2002, when they did not have amount of skilled players that they have now. Of course, as the Sharks have shown, talent only gets you so far.

As for Karlsson, I thought he did a good job overall considering he was battling through a groin injury that he originally sustained in mid-January. He came back briefly late in Feb. only to get hurt again and then not play until the playoffs. With the Sharks' cap situation, I would be surprised if they were able to re-sign him. I think they will re-sign UFA's Thornton and Pavelski, along with RFA's Meier and Labanc. Not sure how much more Wilson will be able to maneuver.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Understand and agree with your points. They had some very good fortune and it finally caught up to them. Also, on the other hand, they did a few things wrong to hurt themselves, one of which was running around and taking dumb penalties in the 3rd period of Game 5 vs. STL, giving themselves no chance to come back in that game.

I agree with that, they were goaded into playing Blues hockey and they are not a team built for that. That is when guys like Thornton, Burns, etc. need to step in and calm people down however.

While Wilson puts together a good team every year, he has missed when it comes to the intangibles, such as lacking the mental toughness to overcome injuries in the playoffs to reach the ultimate goal. They don't play a heavy or tough enough game. The last time they played that style was when Sutter was the head coach and Lombardi was the GM - 1997 to 2002, when they did not have amount of skilled players that they have now. Of course, as the Sharks have shown, talent only gets you so far.

I think the Sharks team that went to the SCFs in 2016 were a good blend of skill, speed and heavy but as you mentioned that intangible has always been missing. I think the teams you are referring to had those intangibles - Nolan, Ricci, etc. - but they also lacked the skill that is there now. I think if a guy like Nolan is on the current Sharks roster that definitely helps create that mental toughness.

For a team that needs those things (and believe me neither Cup in LA happens without guys like Williams/Richards/Greene/Stoll/Regehr/Mitchell/Scuderi because those teams oozed with them as well as the toughness, skill and size) I was very surprised to see SJ land Karlsson, he may have been a captain in Ottawa but he doesn't exactly exude leadership qualities.

He was the captain by default because he was their best player and pretty much everyone else sucked. He was not the missing piece SJ needed but with this core group aging out and contender status fading I understand why Wilson went all in.

As for Karlsson, I thought he did a good job overall considering he was battling through a groin injury that he originally sustained in mid-January. He came back briefly late in Feb. only to get hurt again and then not play until the playoffs. With the Sharks' cap situation, I would be surprised if they were able to re-sign him. I think they will re-sign UFA's Thornton and Pavelski, along with RFA's Meier and Labanc. Not sure how much more Wilson will be able to maneuver.

I can't see him returning to SJ under any circumstances unless there is some serious salary shedding. I'm seeing about $24 million in projected cap space, but they have two good young RFA players in Labanc and Meir needing new contracts as you said with my range to be about $5+ million for Meir and around $2.5 or $3 million for Labanc. That's $8 million right there, and then you have the three main UFAs in Donskoi ($1.9 million), Thornton ($5 million) and the big one in Pavelski ($6 millon).

I can see both Thornton and Pavelski coming back, Thornton at the $5 million or less but Pavelski just scored 38 goals and has 38+ goals in 4 of the last 6 seasons. I can't see him taking a pay cut to stay in SJ on what will likely be his last big deal, so I'm looking at around $7.5 million for him even with the current injury concerns. He is still a solid player who Id love to see in LA.

Donskoi I can see them letting hit free agency but it's still only $1.9 million space.With Labanc, Thornton, Pavelski and Meir back in the fold at my numbers that is $20.5 million out of the $24 million. Some big dollars are going to need to be moved to have any shot at Karlsson.

Personally I think the Sharks should just let him walk, he is awful in his own end and to me (I grew up playing defense) such a one dimensional player is not worth 8 figures not to mention there are other pressing needs in SJ than Brent Burns Junior.

But there is going to be some dumbass GM out there who goes through hoops shuffling his roster and shedding space who doles out some ridiculous contract to him and will have buyer's remorse within the first 3 years of that deal.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Tippett hired as new Oilers coach a few days ago:

Edmonton Oilers hire Dave Tippett as the team’s new head coach - TSN.ca

He was awesome as an AC here in LA and got his Coyotes teams to overachieve a few times including the 2012 playoffs against LA. If he can't whip the Oilers into shape - who are more dysfunctional than LA overall - I don't know if anyone can including Bowman.

 

[Stunner_At_Staples_Kings]

Tippett hired as new Oilers coach a few days ago:

Edmonton Oilers hire Dave Tippett as the team’s new head coach - TSN.ca

He was awesome as an AC here in LA and got his Coyotes teams to overachieve a few times including the 2012 playoffs against LA. If he can't whip the Oilers into shape - who are more dysfunctional than LA overall - I don't know if anyone can including Bowman.

I actually like Tippett a lot. I don't think he would be a bad choice at all. I still laugh at the "Fuck me" he was yelling after Kopitar scored in Game 3 against Arizona in 2012. Phoenix finally got a lead for the first time, and Kopitar embarrassed Smith like a minute later, and it was tied up again. haha

Talent-wise, as you alluded to, he pushed that Coyote team really far for who they had on that roster. Nothing to scoff at.

 

[Stunner_At_Staples_Kings]

Sort of thinking outside the box, but what if LA went for the best defenseman with that 5th pick? Like find that Top 2 guy that we always seem to need, and anchor that defense for the next 5-7-10 years with Doughty.

Just thinking thoughts.

 

[Stunner_At_Staples_Kings]

"3. Bowen Byram, D, Vancouver Giants (WHL), 6-foot, 193 pounds: The legend continues to grow. Try and find the last time a draft-eligible defenceman lead the league in playoff scoring."

 

[Stunner_At_Staples_Kings]

Sportnet link that it literally won't let me post. I'll try again in a bit. Has rankings from 3 weeks ago and has some decent write-ups.

 

[Stunner_At_Staples_Kings]

Saw this on Instagram and thought it was a joke. Apparently it's very real. Marleau maybe to LA.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Because LA needs another player in his late 30s (he will be 40 when the season starts) making $6+ million. If this is true Blake should be fired.

I never had a lot of faith in him as a GM to begin with, he hasn't done a good job IMO and thinks it's 1999 when you just go after big names and big bucks. I honestly hope he is on the hot seat, this will be year 3 under Blake and the Kings have either tread water or regressed under his watch.

Have not seen much improvement in any area at the NHL level although I will give him credit that he has held onto picks and signed a lot of collegiate free agents to not spend assets like picks and roster players.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Sort of thinking outside the box, but what if LA went for the best defenseman with that 5th pick? Like find that Top 2 guy that we always seem to need, and anchor that defense for the next 5-7-10 years with Doughty.

Just thinking thoughts.

Personally I think they shouldn't do anything drastic and just take the best player available at number 5. He may not fill a need now but maybe in a few years he does, or at worst is moved for a player they need to contend again.

Look no further than Hickey, he was projected to go somewhere between 15-20 in 2007 but Dumbo was so intent on stocking up on defense he missed put on Voracek and Couture within the top 10. If he really wanted a defender and not look like a weirdo going off the map, he could have traded down that 4th and maybe gotten McDonaugh who turned into a much better defender at 12th or 13th I think. Possibly could have picked up another asset too.

While the 2007 draft was very weak, I don't think Dumbo did himself any favors pigeon holing himself on need vs best player available. Hickey was eventually claimed off waivers by the Islanders in 2013 and never played a game for LA.

He blew that pick with that mentality and the Kings simply cannot afford to do that right now.

 

[Stunner_At_Staples_Kings]

Personally I think they shouldn't do anything drastic and just take the best player available at number 5. He may not fill a need now but maybe in a few years he does, or at worst is moved for a player they need to contend again.

Look no further than Hickey, he was projected to go somewhere between 15-20 in 2007 but Dumbo was so intent on stocking up on defense he missed put on Voracek and Couture within the top 10. If he really wanted a defender and not look like a weirdo going off the map, he could have traded down that 4th and maybe gotten McDonaugh who turned into a much better defender at 12th or 13th I think. Possibly could have picked up another asset too.

While the 2007 draft was very weak, I don't think Dumbo did himself any favors pigeon holing himself on need vs best player available. Hickey was eventually claimed off waivers by the Islanders in 2013 and never played a game for LA.

He blew that pick with that mentality and the Kings simply cannot afford to do that right now.

I'm on board with that mentality for sure; taking the best player available. That's how you have to do it now I think (In all sports, especially football). But that kid is projecting as Top 5, so it was within that range anyway, and I wouldn't mind getting a defenseman when all is said and done. Still have Picks 22 and 33, so a lot can happen, but if the opportunity is there, and that guy falls to LA, I wouldn't be disappointed.

 

[Stunner_At_Staples_Kings]

Because LA needs another player in his late 30s (he will be 40 when the season starts) making $6+ million. If this is true Blake should be fired.

I never had a lot of faith in him as a GM to begin with, he hasn't done a good job IMO and thinks it's 1999 when you just go after big names and big bucks. I honestly hope he is on the hot seat, this will be year 3 under Blake and the Kings have either tread water or regressed under his watch.

Have not seen much improvement in any area at the NHL level although I will give him credit that he has held onto picks and signed a lot of collegiate free agents to not spend assets like picks and roster players.

The ONLY two ways I can see this working:

1. Toronto throws us a good pick, or good prospect to take Marleau off their hands. He is a UFA next year, so you're eating one year of salary, and that's it. So if Kings are looking at retooling for another year or two, then this doesn't hurt them that bad. If it inhibits their ability to keep their own guys, then it becomes a problem, but I don't see that.

2. A contract goes the other way, which defeats the purpose for Toronto, so I don't see this as likely at all. But if Phaneuf comes off the board somehow, or you send like Lewis and his $2mil the other way, we're talking a little more logical. Again, I love Lewis, but he has not been same player in the least since that nasty fall he took like a year ago.

 

[Kings4OT]

Your talking toronto, their fan base probably believes toffoli or carter is going there with picks

 

[LoCal Kings]

1. I agree take the best available at #5. There are a handful of forwards projected in the #4 - #8 range of draft. Colorado likely gets first crack at that group if CHI takes the defenseman Byram at #3. So Kings should just have 2 forwards targeted at their #5 spot, and they obviously take whoever Colorado doesn't.

2. Bowen Byram: talk of him going #3 to Chicago. But CHI has already drafted a bunch of D-men in 1st & 2nd rounds recently. Instead of all the chatter about L.A. moving back a few spots from #5, why not offer #5 + other asset for Chicago's #3?? Not sure what that "other asset" would have to be, but perhaps worth a conversion for Blake & Lil' Bowman.

3. If a Marleau trade nets the Kings another 1st round pick or legit NHL prospect, I say go for it. There is enough Cap Space to eat his entire 1 yr. remaining salary. Or, as referenced on lakings.com , just buy him out. A 35+ contract, the entire Cap Hit goes onto next year anyways, and they only payout something like $500,000 in actual $$$. Jump on that trade before Arizona swoops in.