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2017 Texas Rangers offseason thread

DT LUNA

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The future will be promising if we can develop a true ace, a true #2 and a true #3 along with a good catcher, second baseman, and center fielder. Ragans, Crouse, and Matuella might turn out to be those first three, but odds are a least one of them will fail to become one of those top 3 pitchers in the rotation. Taveras has to blossom like Brinson did. We then would have to somehow find a 2B and C in our system. We have to do all that without getting close enough to a wild card slot in the next 3 years so JD won't be tempted to trade those guys away.

Of course all of that is assuming Gallo, Mazara and Calhoun actually turn into the guys we think they can become. Then there is the whole idea of what to do at the corners when Beltre is gone. Either Guzman has to become a good choice for 1B or we have to find one of those as well.

In other words, a whole lot of things are going to have to break right. They might as well go ahead and trade Hamels and Beltre now so maybe we can get some guys in return to help us out 3 or 4 years down the line. They have already done Beltre wrong by convincing him they were going to be contenders this year. They owe it to him to trade him somewhere else so he can win a championship. He is never going to be more valuable in trade than he is right now. The same can probably be said for Hamels.
Lot of work to do. The main reason I was not for signing Yu with the terms he wanted because time would run out for him to help us before we will be ready to contend.
 

saddles

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I'm glad JD passed him up. Fielder and Choo taught us a lesson. Long high price contracts can easily take a bad turn and Yu with TJ history and age 31 no thanks. Kudos JD.
The Fielder deal is the one that killed us even more than the Choo deal. Had the Choo deal been done without the Fielder deal then the Choo contract wouldn't seem as bad. Folks lump them together and rightly so. One was bad, one was really bad and put together they were disastrous.

The difference in those deals and this one is that the Cubs organization happens to be wise enough to give Yu a physical first. had JD been wise enough to do that with Fielder then we wouldn't be in this mess.

The Fielder trade, the Choo contract, the Hamels trade, the Lucroy trade are all parts of what makes the post WS time period a huge failure for this organization. We have been on a slide and each one of those deals hastened the slide and deepened the hole we are in.
 

darrylgann

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The future will be promising if we can develop a true ace, a true #2 and a true #3 along with a good catcher, second baseman, and center fielder. Ragans, Crouse, and Matuella might turn out to be those first three, but odds are a least one of them will fail to become one of those top 3 pitchers in the rotation. Taveras has to blossom like Brinson did. We then would have to somehow find a 2B and C in our system. We have to do all that without getting close enough to a wild card slot in the next 3 years so JD won't be tempted to trade those guys away.

Of course all of that is assuming Gallo, Mazara and Calhoun actually turn into the guys we think they can become. Then there is the whole idea of what to do at the corners when Beltre is gone. Either Guzman has to become a good choice for 1B or we have to find one of those as well.

In other words, a whole lot of things are going to have to break right. They might as well go ahead and trade Hamels and Beltre now so maybe we can get some guys in return to help us out 3 or 4 years down the line. They have already done Beltre wrong by convincing him they were going to be contenders this year. They owe it to him to trade him somewhere else so he can win a championship. He is never going to be more valuable in trade than he is right now. The same can probably be said for Hamels.
There’s a lot of risk there. JD’s butt on the line big time. And with a new stadium, it’s a hard time leaving a lot on prospects.
 

saddles

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Its all about the market. If the market is good for Beltre now (and it might be) you trade him now. I think Hamels will need to prove his value a bit. He’s not a #1 but he might be a #2 if he proves it. Otherwise, he’s a #3. Question is how much of his contract we eat and what we get in return.
Will the difference in what Hamels can prove outweigh what a team gets from him over the course of a whole season versus a half of a season though? Then there is the chance he has another bad month or so early in the season and his value slips even further. I think you can assume another team would be willing to pay $17-19 million for him and we would have to pick up the rest. That is my guess anyway.
 

romeo212000

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The Fielder deal is the one that killed us even more than the Choo deal. Had the Choo deal been done without the Fielder deal then the Choo contract wouldn't seem as bad. Folks lump them together and rightly so. One was bad, one was really bad and put together they were disastrous.

The difference in those deals and this one is that the Cubs organization happens to be wise enough to give Yu a physical first. had JD been wise enough to do that with Fielder then we wouldn't be in this mess.

The Fielder trade, the Choo contract, the Hamels trade, the Lucroy trade are all parts of what makes the post WS time period a huge failure for this organization. We have been on a slide and each one of those deals hastened the slide and deepened the hole we are in.

Fielder was given a physical. Cervical MRI’s are not typically done as part of one. It’s easy to say, “I told you so.” in hind sight but sometimes it’s just bad luck.
 

romeo212000

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Will the difference in what Hamels can prove outweigh what a team gets from him over the course of a whole season versus a half of a season though? Then there is the chance he has another bad month or so early in the season and his value slips even further. I think you can assume another team would be willing to pay $17-19 million for him and we would have to pick up the rest. That is my guess anyway.

Depending on the trade return if someone wants to pay $20 mil I do that deal tomorrow
 

saddles

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Lot of work to do. The main reason I was not for signing Yu with the terms he wanted because time would run out for him to help us before we will be ready to contend.
I just think that by far he was our best chance to sign an ace in free agency. We never have in our history. Now we pretty much have to wait on Ragans and hope he develops into an ace. Even if he pitches here in 2021 it will take him at least a couple of years to pitch like an ace once he gets here.
 

DT LUNA

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Most of this coming year will be interesting and fun to see how we here build the new team. :lol:
 

romeo212000

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I just think that by far he was our best chance to sign an ace in free agency. We never have in our history. Now we pretty much have to wait on Ragans and hope he develops into an ace. Even if he pitches here in 2021 it will take him at least a couple of years to pitch like an ace once he gets here.

Truthfully, I think the new stadium is the key to the problem you’re describing.
 

saddles

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Truthfully, I think the new stadium is the key to the problem you’re describing.
I have been hoping so, but you never know. Then again, if it is, will there be a true ace available in free agency and will our bad record in the preceding years negate the difference in stadiums as far as making us a favorable spot for an ace to sign.

I know we have a hill to climb and it is going to take awhile. I just wish we had started climbing it a couple of years ago and still had the guys we traded away.

The outlook is bleak and it is hard not to be depressed about it. I don't mind rebuilding, but I don't like the possibility that the plan gets short circuited again by trades.
 

Kelleyman

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Truth is, we wouldn’t make use of his good years anyways. We’re at least two years away from being real contenders.


Which is why it is likely we do not go after Kershaw next year. It will be two years at a minimum before that and an ace should only be a finishing piece.

As been mentioned you hate to have an ace for two years without being a favorite to win it all. We still might surprise and sneak into a WC. Our lousy pen was the difference last year.

We took our shots while Yu was here with Cole and it did not work so that is tough

So trades are good if you get value no need just to dump and eat money unless you get talent in return
 

Kelleyman

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I have been hoping so, but you never know. Then again, if it is, will there be a true ace available in free agency and will our bad record in the preceding years negate the difference in stadiums as far as making us a favorable spot for an ace to sign.

I know we have a hill to climb and it is going to take awhile. I just wish we had started climbing it a couple of years ago and still had the guys we traded away.

The outlook is bleak and it is hard not to be depressed about it. I don't mind rebuilding, but I don't like the possibility that the plan gets short circuited again by trades.


It isn’t easy to get this right always. It is not an exact science. Of course having Brinson now would help us be a better team. I expected a whole lot more from Lucroy Our minor league talent is going to need to produce. If it does we do well if not then we don’t
 

saddles

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It isn’t easy to get this right always. It is not an exact science. Of course having Brinson now would help us be a better team. I expected a whole lot more from Lucroy Our minor league talent is going to need to produce. If it does we do well if not then we don’t
It isn't an exact science for sure. Either you spend enough to win or you build through your system. You can't refuse to spend and trade away prospects. That much is close to an exact science. The not adding an ace until the final piece theory was not utilized when trading for Hamels. He was not going to be a final piece.

Lucroy actually performed well the year we traded for him. Had he done better last year it wouldn't have mattered much. Like Hamels he wasn't the final piece of a WS team here. We needed more than them to win a WS.

Now, the Cliff Lee trade provided a final piece.
 

saddles

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Yet, it wasn't
It was the final piece we needed to get to the WS. The point is that that was a team that was a lot further along on the path to playing in a WS than the team we had when we traded for Hamels or Lucroy. That is the way I saw it anyway. That is why I was elated when we traded for Lee and very disappointed when we made those other trades.
 

Nightcrawler

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Glad Darvish went to the cubs.


Much prefer him going there then the Yankees, Astros, or dodgers.
 

scotsman1948

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Most of this coming year will be interesting and fun to see how we here build the new team. :lol:
it would be fun if we started out with our kids having the chance to show what they have but our ownership has sat on their hands loading up the roster with players who have nothing to prove except to add money to their pockets. we are not going to see anything from our young players this year unless we unload players blocking them by the trade deadline. the leadership has chosen a path of inactivity that is going to slow their development to a crawl and add 2, 3. 4 maybe 5 years to the team's emergence from mediocrity.
 

donaldson79

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it would be fun if we started out with our kids having the chance to show what they have but our ownership has sat on their hands loading up the roster with players who have nothing to prove except to add money to their pockets. we are not going to see anything from our young players this year unless we unload players blocking them by the trade deadline. the leadership has chosen a path of inactivity that is going to slow their development to a crawl and add 2, 3. 4 maybe 5 years to the team's emergence from mediocrity.

You totally discount the fact that's it quite dangerous to some younger players to promote them before they're ready for the big time.

As our team stands today and there isn't a single player who's in our system who absolutely deserves an opportunity to be with the big club.
 
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