2017 AL CENTRAL DISCUSSION

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Miggy is no longer a top bat.

Miggy is barely an average bat. .255/.343/.408/.751

lolz

Miggy wishes he was Melky Cabrera.

 

[navamind]

Nice pitching staff, Detroit.

 

[Voltaire26]

I agree they're the two best teams, but frankly, I think the Indians are the best team in the AL.

Also, given the Tribe's history of owning Sale and Price's history of shitting down his leg in big games, I think the Indians match up very well against the Red Sox.

With Keuchel struggling lately and not a lot behind him, and with the Astros' offense scuffling -- they got shut out last night by Patrick Corbin -- I think the Indians match up well against them too.

Of course, what things look like on paper doesn't mean shit in October.

Sometimes the Indians make me smile ... keep owning his ass.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

honestly i think Boston is the only team that could beat the Indians in the AL.

Any team in the AL could beat the Indians. The MLB playoffs are rife with crapshootidity.

 

[navamind]

Any team in the AL could beat the Indians. The MLB playoffs are rife with crapshootidity.

Yeah really, the 1987 Twins and 2006 Cards are prime examples that you just need to make it to the postseason.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Nice pitching staff, Detroit.

That's just not fair, navamind. You can't expect them to have a solid pitching staff with just $200MM worth of payroll.

 

[Howie115]

if you were the Tigers GM how would you approach this offseason?

would you rebuild--- or try and double down on this team? i like victor martinez a lot- but he was always slow as shit. It amazed me he could hit for avg. like he did being one of the slowest guys in the league. It seems he has lost some more of the little athleticism he had...hes one of my all time favorite indians--- but ti looks close to the end for him. Kinlser is aging. Miggy is no longer a top bat.

I mean- you at least have the beginning of a solid rotation with Verlander and Fullmer----- and some decent young arms like Boyd and Norris etc.....Zimmerman was a waste of money......but the Tigers lineup is just so old besides Upton- and the bullpen is atrocious. Ill be the first to admit--- I didnt expect Upton to be really really good like he has been.

the AL Central isnt exactly stacked- esp. with the Indians under achieving to a certain extent this year--- but its hard for me to see the Tigers path to contention next year minus some really major major moves that break in their favor

The Tigers missed their window to win with guys like Cabrera, Verlander and V-mart. They aren't winning squat with those guys anyway, so I am in favor of a complete rebuild -- get younger and cheaper. I can find something else to do the next couple of summers rather than follow this team. If the prospects and younger players mature to the point that it looks like they might contend, then you spend money on a key FA or two. It's what they did back in '04 and '05, getting guys like Pudge, Ordonez and Kenny Rogers to complement a young team, and it led to an '06 WS appearance.

Re V-mart: It very much IS the end for him. He no longer hits for average or power, can't play in the field anymore, and as you said, is maybe the slowest runner in all of baseball. But we still owe him $18 million next season, so he'll probably be back to finish out his contract. Cabrera likely becomes the full-time DH in 2019, if he is still around.

Fulmer, Boyd and Norris are decent young pitchers to build around. Boyd struggles with consistency from start to start, which is typical for a young pitcher. Norris has been on the DL at least once every season, so it's hard to get a read on where he will be in the next couple of years. He has electric stuff, so we can only hope he eventually harnesses his location and can stay healthy. He's kind of where Danny Duffy was in 2015.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Yeah really, the 1987 Twins and 2006 Cards are prime examples that you just need to make it to the postseason.

Recent Giants championships, too.

I don't think they were the best team in baseball in any of their three championship years, and one of them you could make the case that they were the worst team to make the playoffs. I don't remember which year and I'm too busy and don't care enough to look it up.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Cabrera likely becomes the full-time DH in 2019, if he is still around.

He may not be around, but his salary sure will be. No one is touching that unless he miraculously starts having MVP seasons again.

Is that contract extension worse than the one the Phillies gave Howard? It might be.

 

[Howie115]

Is that contract extension worse than the one the Phillies gave Howard? It might be.

Yeah, thank you Mike Ilitch. I loved the guy and his efforts to build a WS-caliber team regardless of the costs. But the length of the Verlander and Cabrera contracts, and giving a 4-year deal to a 35-year old V-mart were misguided. The team is paying the price now. I know he wanted all three to retire as Tigers, and that was part of the motivation.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I agree they're the two best teams, but frankly, I think the Indians are the best team in the AL.

Also, given the Tribe's history of owning Sale and Price's history of shitting down his leg in big games, I think the Indians match up very well against the Red Sox.

With Keuchel struggling lately and not a lot behind him, and with the Astros' offense scuffling -- they got shut out last night by Patrick Corbin -- I think the Indians match up well against them too.

Of course, what things look like on paper doesn't mean shit in October.

I agree.....

I mean- facing the Sox a little while back I just wasnt as impressed with their lineup as i expected to be. I mean- Devers certainly looks like he should give them a boost but a 20 year old rookie is going to be prone to some major ups and downs.

As far as hitters go- Betts is their only really really good hitter. Benentendi is pretty good (obviously with potential to get better as he ages), Hanley is pretty good, Bogaertes has been a big time disappointment this year, Bradley Jr. has regressed this year, Moreland is an avg. first basemen with the bat at best.


Sale vs. Kluber will be great baseball. It was awesome to see the tribe smash Sale a couple weeks ago- and they got to him with the White Sox on occasion as well.

Boston has a decent pen- but some of the acquisitions from the last couple years like Carson Smith and Tyler Thornburg blew up in their face badly- both of those guys were supposed to be pretty damn good and both are injured. After Kimbrel their bullpen is decent but not great. Indians obviously have a big advantage there having 4 guys like Allen, Miller, Shaw and Smith. I guess Joe Kelly has been pretty damn solid this year and Reed was a decent acquisition.

Kluber vs. Sale---- 2 best pitchers in the AL- wash

Carrasco vs. Price?-- Indians

Salazar vs. Porcello-- Indians

Bauer vs. Pomerantz- ehh--- prob about a wash- maybe Pomerantz...i dunno.

 

[navamind]

I agree.....

I mean- facing the Sox a little while back I just wasnt as impressed with their lineup as i expected to be. I mean- Devers certainly looks like he should give them a boost but a 20 year old rookie is going to be prone to some major ups and downs.

As far as hitters go- Betts is their only really really good hitter. Benentendi is pretty good (obviously with potential to get better as he ages), Hanley is pretty good, Bogaertes has been a big time disappointment this year, Bradley Jr. has regressed this year, Moreland is an avg. first basemen with the bat at best.


Sale vs. Kluber will be great baseball. It was awesome to see the tribe smash Sale a couple weeks ago- and they got to him with the White Sox on occasion as well.

Boston has a decent pen- but some of the acquisitions from the last couple years like Carson Smith and Tyler Thornburg blew up in their face badly- both of those guys were supposed to be pretty damn good and both are injured. After Kimbrel their bullpen is decent but not great. Indians obviously have a big advantage there having 4 guys like Allen, Miller, Shaw and Smith. I guess Joe Kelly has been pretty damn solid this year and Reed was a decent acquisition.

Kluber vs. Sale---- 2 best pitchers in the AL- wash

Carrasco vs. Price?-- Indians

Salazar vs. Porcello-- Indians

Bauer vs. Pomerantz- ehh--- prob about a wash- maybe Pomerantz...i dunno.

Honestly, I'm not sure there's a reliever outside of Kimbrel I have complete confidence in. Barnes is probably the 2nd best reliever and he does have the stuff to be lights out, but his command is spotty. Hembree's too hittable, Reed was a Met, Kelly's 100 mph fastball is straight, etc.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Recent Giants championships, too.

I don't think they were the best team in baseball in any of their three championship years, and one of them you could make the case that they were the worst team to make the playoffs. I don't remember which year and I'm too busy and don't care enough to look it up.

Its true- its a crap shoot--- but i think the Indians bullpen is a really nice advantage over other guys. With the days off in between games we saw what a guy like Miller can do last year. Joe Smith was a nice acquisition as well. Him and Shaw in the 6th/7th innings is pretty damn good.

The Indians can REALLY REALLY shorten a game- even more so than last year it seems. That puts a lot of pressure on the opposing offense---- and those opposing offenses look like thy will have to doeal with Carrasco and a resurgent Salazar instead of Bauer with a chopped up hand and


Did you watch that Yanks/Indians series a couple weeks ago? Yanks have a ton of good young talent- but they still seem too young. They made a lot of mistakes- errors--- things a championship contender usually doesnt do. Yanks will be major contenders going forward- esp. if they bring in a high priced guy or two- but i dont think they are ready to make their move just yet this season. We shall see though. Bettances and Chapman is a scary back end. Gray/Severino/Tanaka/*Sabathia isnt exactly scaring anyone though.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Sale vs. Kluber will be great baseball. It was awesome to see the tribe smash Sale a couple weeks ago- and they got to him with the White Sox on occasion as well.

4.44 ERA in 115 career IP vs Indians. Compare that to his overall career ERA of 2.94.

9.39 ERA over his last three starts vs the Tribe.

 

[WiggyRuss]

4.44 ERA in 115 career IP vs Indians. Compare that to his overall career ERA of 2.94.

9.39 ERA over his last three starts vs the Tribe.

I sure hope we get to him---- all of these injuries are making me a little nervous though.

Its good to see Kipnis starting to get it figured out. Remember a couple years ago he struggled through a season where he could never get fully healthy and never really put it together? --- that worries me- but i gotta say hes looked good lately.

Bruce has been a lot better than I expected. I hope Chiz can keep up his solid season when he comes back- but hes been on the DL an awful lot---- who knows what happens with Brantley.

Its awesome to see EE start to just light it up though. Zimmer looks lost at the plate right now but they cant give him a mental breather since no one else can play a decent center.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Reed was a Met

Hahahaha.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Its true- its a crap shoot--- but i think the Indians bullpen is a really nice advantage over other guys. With the days off in between games we saw what a guy like Miller can do last year. Joe Smith was a nice acquisition as well. Him and Shaw in the 6th/7th innings is pretty damn good.

The Indians can REALLY REALLY shorten a game- even more so than last year it seems. That puts a lot of pressure on the opposing offense---- and those opposing offenses look like thy will have to doeal with Carrasco and a resurgent Salazar instead of Bauer with a chopped up hand and

It's not automatic.

The Tribe bullpen had a week long stretch or so at the end of July where they had a 6+ ERA. They go through a stretch like that in the postseason and it's curtains.

 

[WiggyRuss]

It's not automatic.

The Tribe bullpen had a week long stretch or so at the end of July where they had a 6+ ERA. They go through a stretch like that in the postseason and it's curtains.

Allen seems off. I wonder if the last couple years workload is getting to me. I wouldnt mind if they gave him a couple weeks off like they just gave miller to rest, and get all the little nagging injuries healed up.

 

[dougplayer]

4.44 ERA in 115 career IP vs Indians. Compare that to his overall career ERA of 2.94.

9.39 ERA over his last three starts vs the Tribe.

Smart money on sale.
That would be my money

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Smart money on sale.
That would be my money

Thanks for saying that, doug!

Kluber wins! Book it, Danno!