2016 Pirates

[thedddd]

^ Exactly the price of pitching is insane this offseason. I have no issue with the deal basically a pretty even swap.

I am very curious to see what they do to help the infield.
I truly hope their goal is not to only bring back Sean Rodriguez.

 

[Darkstone42]

The Bucs signed Juan Nicasio for $3 million. Good replacement for Soria, I think.

 

[thedddd]

I like that deal also. I am not sure I am sold on them signing Latos, sooner or later the "reclamations" aren't going to work. The positive with Latos if he signs and his arm strength comes back could be huge for them.

 

[ramburgh]

I wonder if the Moreland deal is on hold because the Pirates want to secure another SP before they trade Morton?

The starting pitchers who could be a possibility for the Pirates (in order of likelihood) include:

Mat Latos (FA)
Justin Masterson (FA)
Scott Kazmir (FA)
Kyle Kendrick (FA)
Henderson Alvarez (FA)
Ian Kennedy (FA)
Doug Fister (FA)
CJ Wilson (Trade if Angels pick up a large part of his contract)
Hector Santiago (Trade with Angels)
Yovani Gallardo (FA)
Tim Lincecum (FA)
James Shield (Trade if Padres pick up some of his contract)
Cliff Lee (FA)
Kyle Lohse (FA)

Complete FA SP List:
Henderson Alvarez (26)
Bronson Arroyo (39)
Brandon Beachy (29)
Chad Billingsley (31)
Joe Blanton (35)
Mark Buehrle (37)
Chris Capuano (37)
Wei-Yin Chen (30)
Bartolo Colon (43)
Johnny Cueto (30)
Doug Fister (32)
Yohan Flande (30)
Yovani Gallardo (30)
Dillon Gee (30)
Jeremy Guthrie (37)
Aaron Harang (38)
Roberto Hernandez (35)
Edwin Jackson (32)
Josh Johnson (32)
Scott Kazmir (32)
Kyle Kendrick (31)
Ian Kennedy (31)
Mat Latos (28)
Mike Leake (28)
Cliff Lee (37)
Colby Lewis (36)
Tim Lincecum (32)
Kyle Lohse (37)
Cory Luebke (31)
Shaun Marcum (34)
Kenta Maeda (28)
Justin Masterson (31)
Brandon Morrow (31)
Mike Minor (28)
Sean O’Sullivan (28)
Wandy Rodriguez (37)
Alfredo Simon (35)
Eric Stults (36)
Ryan Vogelsong (38)
Randy Wolf (39)
Jerome Williams (34)

 

[element1286]

Ian Kennedy, Scott Kazmir, Doug Fister, and Latos are interesting. Kazmir would be a strange fit since it would give them 4 lefties, assuming Morton is dealt.

Masterson is a good reclamation project candidate, and Mike Minor is interesting if the medicals are ok.

 

[element1286]

^ Exactly the price of pitching is insane this offseason. I have no issue with the deal basically a pretty even swap.

I am very curious to see what they do to help the infield.
I truly hope their goal is not to only bring back Sean Rodriguez.

I think Sean Rodriguez has value, assuming his playing time is that of a 25th man, and keep him limited to 2nd, SS, and 3rd. Being the backup/defensive replacement at 1st, as he was last year, is a terrible idea though.

 

[psaboy]

I really don't see the Pirates in contention next year, not doing anything in FA market, while other teams are loading up, especially Cubs. Most impact players are signed. They need to do something fast, IMO

 

[Darkstone42]

I really don't see the Pirates in contention next year, not doing anything in FA market, while other teams are loading up, especially Cubs. Most impact players are signed. They need to do something fast, IMO

They're about even with the Cards and Dodgers right now, probably a bit ahead of the Giants and DBacks, and also probably better than everyone in the NL East except for the Nats and maybe the Mets, with whom they're also pretty even. Especially considering their activity in terms of talking to other teams and players persisted throughout the Winter Meetings, even after the Walker for Niese deal, it's probably pretty safe to assume they'll continue to be one of the better teams in the NL.

We almost certainly have the best bullpen in the NL right now, and we're in contention for the best outfield, and we have a great catcher. We have a solid player in Harrison who will fill in where needed, and I think Kang should establish himself among the NL's best 3B this season, given health. Mercer is mostly fine, too, so finding a decent 1B to make Morse a bench player is the biggest thing position player wise.

And you just know we'll find a way to upgrade the rotation. We always do.

Plus, we have mid- to late-season boost possibilities from three impact prospects in Taillon, Bell, and Glasnow, plus a probably useful prospect in Hanson.

The Cubs have the most talented team in baseball right now, probably, but that doesn't mean the Bucs aren't going to contend.

 

[stillmatic32]

Charlie Morton to the Phillies for David Whitehead. Looks like a straight salary dump.

 

[ramburgh]

I really hope this is a salary dump to take on a large SP or 1B salary. If not, this would be the first move in a few years that I really question.

 

[ramburgh]

By large - I mean Cueto or Chris Davis. If a move like that is not made, then this team will not make the playoffs as the Cubs have improved too much and the Cardinals will find ways to improve also. As mentioned, a lot of other teams are trending upwards in the NL also. If the Pirates are not going to get serious and make a big move then it is a good time to look into trading McCutchen.

Next year's payroll has taken a big step backwards which makes absolutely no sense with the money floating around MLB. I also think the Pirates are off the hook for Morse's salary or a large portion of it as money came with him which I thought was to cover 2015 and at least part of 2016?

I believe the projected payroll is right around $80-$85M (depending upon Morse). If the Pirates are going to get serious they need to add $20-$25M to sign a major piece. There is no where that this roster needs tinkered with with wasted acquisitions like Hart, etc, etc. When it comes time to spend on Cole, etc there should be a new local TV (Root) contract in place that provides significantly more revenue to the team.

 

[thedddd]

I think Sean Rodriguez has value, assuming his playing time is that of a 25th man, and keep him limited to 2nd, SS, and 3rd. Being the backup/defensive replacement at 1st, as he was last year, is a terrible idea though.

I hope the morton salary dump is creating space to upgrade 1B and the SP. That way bringing Rodriguez back would mean he is the last guy on the bench

 

[Darkstone42]

By large - I mean Cueto or Chris Davis. If a move like that is not made, then this team will not make the playoffs as the Cubs have improved too much and the Cardinals will find ways to improve also. As mentioned, a lot of other teams are trending upwards in the NL also. If the Pirates are not going to get serious and make a big move then it is a good time to look into trading McCutchen.

Next year's payroll has taken a big step backwards which makes absolutely no sense with the money floating around MLB. I also think the Pirates are off the hook for Morse's salary or a large portion of it as money came with him which I thought was to cover 2015 and at least part of 2016?

I believe the projected payroll is right around $80-$85M (depending upon Morse). If the Pirates are going to get serious they need to add $20-$25M to sign a major piece. There is no where that this roster needs tinkered with with wasted acquisitions like Hart, etc, etc. When it comes time to spend on Cole, etc there should be a new local TV (Root) contract in place that provides significantly more revenue to the team.

Huntington has already said he has flexibility with the payroll, but right now they're projected at $86.5 million.

I don't see there being a motivation to this move other than freeing money and a rotation spot to sign a starting pitcher who is a clear upgrade over Morton. I am kind of surprised, though, that they couldn't find more value than they did in the return.

 

[thedddd]

I think they couldn't get a better return is truly the fact that all gms knew this was a salary dump for reasons to upgrade.

 

[Darkstone42]

I think they couldn't get a better return is truly the fact that all gms knew this was a salary dump for reasons to upgrade.

Yeah, or they saw something in Morton which suggested last year is more what he'll be going forward than his effective years previous.

I mean, he's had a lot of injuries. Maybe the feeling on him is that he's going to completely fall apart soon and drove his value down.

 

[element1286]

Pretty clearly a salary dump, will see what they do with the $ to improve. He was always been a decent #5 on a good team, I think expecting him to be more than that was folly though, and you can get a guy to approximate his production in the aggregate for much cheaper.

I really doubt Chris Davis or Cueto are even on the Pirate radar at all.

I know the Cubs have gotten better, but the Cards have clearly gotten worse, losing Heyward and Lackey. The Pirates 'lose' every offseason, even the past two, and have made the playoffs each year. I still have faith.

On another note, anyone hear anything on Kingham? When is he supposed to be back? Seems like a lost prospect at this point.

 

[thedddd]

Kingham I think will be lost most of 2016 due to the tommy john. Maybe come sept we will see him pitch.

As for the Pirates I am not worried they have talent and make it work. What worries me is it seems the Cardinals are the same. If the money the Cubs spent put them over which I am not sold on Heyward. Hitting puts no fear into the opposition and their other OF's arent good defensively so he can only cover so much. Pitching they will be strong. With that I dont see the Pirates anymore than a wildcard team again.

 

[thedddd]

Also honestly I dont think the Pirates truly lost anything that would make them worse talent wise. Walker hurts some with Kang hurt but that is only temporary. So in reality it has been status quo for this team.

 

[element1286]

I think depth is more of an issue than the actual lineup, instead of Harrison being a super sub, he's a starter at 2nd, which has a ripple effect to the bench strength. Harrison should replace Walker, albeit by being a better defender while a worse hitter. So I don't think they are any worse there.

They still need to find a decent first baseman, since Morse is not a replacement for Pedro's bat.

 

[Darkstone42]

I think depth is more of an issue than the actual lineup, instead of Harrison being a super sub, he's a starter at 2nd, which has a ripple effect to the bench strength. Harrison should replace Walker, albeit by being a better defender while a worse hitter. So I don't think they are any worse there.

They still need to find a decent first baseman, since Morse is not a replacement for Pedro's bat.

I think Desmond would be a decent target if the market is down on him. He'd be a pretty solid bench player with the upside of upgrading SS and adding some pop back into the lineup. Either way, it adds a ML-capable middle infielder to the bench.

Adding a useful first baseman would go a long way, too.