2016 NBA Off-Season Thread

[Black Adam]

Hassan Whiteside

Kevin Pelton makes the case that the Los Angeles Lakers (and perhaps other teams) should gamble on Whiteside. Pelton lists the pros and cons of signing Whiteside, with good evidence on each side. For our money, though, the cons outweigh the pros.

Back in January, Whiteside joked that he was "just trying to get his NBA2K rating up." The truth, of course, is often told in jest, and Whiteside often played as if his top priority was beefing up his box score stats.

And he did put up some truly monstrous numbers -- including 4.6 blocks and 10.6 defensive boards per 36 minutes of play. Unfortunately, playing defense isn't just about blocking shots.

Sometimes -- especially for a 7-footer -- it's more effective just to stay in a solid defensive stance. When bigs are too eager to block shots, they end up biting on pump fakes and can actually make it easier for opponents to score. They also pick up lots of goaltending calls -- a category in which Whiteside nearly "led" the league.

The Miami Heat were actually worse defensively -- they allowed more points per possession -- with Whiteside on the floor last season. If we just look at his impressive block totals, Whiteside's on-off efficiency numbers with Miami make no sense.

But while Whiteside should be looking to emulate legendary bigs like Tim Duncan, who predicate every move on its ability to make the team better, he seems instead to have modeled his game after stat grubbers such as JaVale McGee.

Again, it's possible to put up huge numbers without actually helping the team all that much.

Consider: Whiteside is one of only nine players in the history of the NBA to dish out 30 or fewer assists in a season in which they played more than 2,000 minutes.

So, despite his gaudy numbers, Whiteside's lackluster predictive RPM value of 0.32 rates him as just a league-average player for his overall impact on the game. If he doesn't start playing fundamentally sound basketball next season -- an unlikely prospect, in our opinion -- his team will be left puzzling over their lackluster defense with Whiteside on the floor, and will end up realizing that Whiteside's new max contract was money poorly spent.

seen this article already...

however, it does say you really got your hate-on for this guy...

did kinda find it funny that most NBA players wanna get their 2K ratings up, though....

 

[Mecca]

Whoops I intended to say "better than making it to the Finals and losing" but anyway, CL was saying Bird's accomplishments of 3 titles is more impressive bc he didn't make it to the Finals as often as Lebron.

If you think about it, not even very hard, it makes no sense

So, making it to the Finals and losing is worse than losing in a earlier round?

Are you sure he's saying that's the ONLY reason he's ranked higher than Lebron?

Rings and Finals record would be my deciding factor if all things were equal.

I think the best, and hardest, comparable comparison would be Jerry West vs. Wade.

The Logo went 1-8 in the Finals and Wade went 3-3.

Their stats are razor thin close. But, I'd rank the Logo higher Historically even with all the Finals loses.

Same with Lebron.

Dwyane Wade vs. Jerry West Comparison

 

[Black Adam]

So, making it to the Finals and losing is worse than losing in a earlier round?

Are you sure he's saying that's the ONLY reason he's ranked higher than Lebron?

Rings and Finals record would be my deciding factor if all things were equal.

I think the best, and hardest, comparable comparison would be Jerry West vs. Wade.

The Logo went 1-8 in the Finals and Wade went 3-2.

Their stats are razor thin close. But, I'd rank the Logo higher Historically even with all the Finals loses.

Same with Lebron.

Dwyane Wade vs. Jerry West Comparison

eh, i'll take the winning percentage. guess it just depends on who you are...

but most convos about it imo are gonna be who garnered the most titles...

 

[Shanemansj13]

Delonte had 20 trips with Gloria...

Good for him lol

 

[Shanemansj13]

So, making it to the Finals and losing is worse than losing in a earlier round?

Are you sure he's saying that's the ONLY reason he's ranked higher than Lebron?

Rings and Finals record would be my deciding factor if all things were equal.

I think the best, and hardest, comparable comparison would be Jerry West vs. Wade.

The Logo went 1-8 in the Finals and Wade went 3-2.

Their stats are razor thin close. But, I'd rank the Logo higher Historically even with all the Finals loses.

Same with Lebron.

Dwyane Wade vs. Jerry West Comparison

Yeah but I don't think Wade and West are as close, comparison wise. I think Wade is a future HOF and a great SG, but he isn't in the top 10 or 15 greatest players like West IMO

 

[Mecca]

Yeah but I don't think Wade and West are as close, comparison wise. I think Wade is a future HOF and a great SG, but he isn't in the top 10 or 15 greatest players like West IMO

He's not as far off, statistically, as you might think.

Plus, Wade sacrificed some prime scoring years being Robin to Bron's Bat man.

I take the Logo over him 10 of 10 times.

But, Wade is underappreciated.

http://www.landofbasketball.com/images/ball_19.png

 

[Shanemansj13]

He's not as far off, statistically, as you might think.

Plus, Wade sacrificed some prime scoring years being Robin to Bron's Bat man.

I take the Logo over him 10 of 10 times.

But, Wade is underappreciated.

http://www.landofbasketball.com/images/ball_19.png

Wade is underappreciated, but he still isn't West. I think West is slightly on another tier, it isn't far off like you said.

 

[lakersrule]

Well said and I totally agree.

I was starting to think it was a witch hunt to discredit the guy.

But, the only reason he still has that job is because they are honoring Dr. Buss' wishes.

It's time.....Sounds like they already have a competent replacement...a younger Half Brother that is running the Defenders.

The competent replacement is Ryan West, Jerry West's son. That's assuming they look for an in-house replacement which is their typical method of operation.

I think the 'source' in the organization is clearly on Jeanie's side. I just don't get why she would want to harm the organization like this.

 

[Mecca]

Wade is underappreciated, but he still isn't West. I think West is slightly on another tier, it isn't far off like you said.

Agree.

Jerry had the bad luck of playing in the Russell era.

 

[Heatles84]

So, making it to the Finals and losing is worse than losing in a earlier round?

Are you sure he's saying that's the ONLY reason he's ranked higher than Lebron?

Rings and Finals record would be my deciding factor if all things were equal.

I think the best, and hardest, comparable comparison would be Jerry West vs. Wade.

The Logo went 1-8 in the Finals and Wade went 3-3.

Their stats are razor thin close. But, I'd rank the Logo higher Historically even with all the Finals loses.

Same with Lebron.

Dwyane Wade vs. Jerry West Comparison

Wade's actually 3-2 in the Finals. Only losses are in 2011 and 2014.

 

[Mecca]

The competent replacement is Ryan West, Jerry West's son. That's assuming they look for an in-house replacement which is their typical method of operation.

I think the 'source' in the organization is clearly on Jeanie's side. I just don't get why she would want to harm the organization like this.

Yeah, I don't get it.

I'm not a Lakers fan. Matter of fact, I hate y'all.

But, it pissed me off when I read stuff about what Dr. Buss thought or felt this many years later.

Who does it help to dispose that he had little faith in Jim being successful. Yet, put him in a position of power anyway?

I had a ton of respect for that man and hate to see them tear down what he worked so hard to build.

Last Season, the Lakers lore was still strong enough to Warrant a free agent meeting with Aldridge, even though he likely wouldn't come.

Now guys won't even extend them that courtesy this Summer.

 

[Mecca]

Wade's actually 3-2 in the Finals. Only losses are in 2011 and 2014.

Yeah, I accidentally lumped that first Lebron loss to the Spurs on Wade...sorry.

 

[Heatles84]

Wade is underappreciated, but he still isn't West. I think West is slightly on another tier, it isn't far off like you said.

Depending on who you talk to, Wade usually sits around 3rd/4th best SG of all-time. And Jerry West isn't in a lot of people's top 10 given the error he played in. Same goes for Bill Russell.

I have Wade in my top 3 SG's of all-time, for buyist reasons.

1) Jordan
2) Bryant
3) Wade

If it weren't for Wade and Kobe's career overlapping one another's, I wonder how many more times Wade would be an NBA all-defense as well as NBA 1st team.

Jerry West never had to play in an era where he had another player in his position to compare himself to like Wade did with Kobe.

 

[Mecca]

eh, i'll take the winning percentage. guess it just depends on who you are...

but most convos about it imo are gonna be who garnered the most titles...

True.

But, on the flipside.....

Wade has more titles, and a better Finals record , than Jery West.

The Logo is still better.

 

[lakersrule]

Yeah, I don't get it.

I'm not a Lakers fan. Matter of fact, I hate y'all.

But, it pissed me off when I read stuff about what Dr. Buss thought or felt this many years later.

Who does it help to dispose that he had little faith in Jim being successful. Yet, put him in a position of power anyway?

I had a ton of respect for that man and hate to see them tear down what he worked so hard to build.

Last Season, the Lakers lore was still strong enough to Warrant a free agent meeting with Aldridge, even though he likely wouldn't come.

Now guys won't even extend them that courtesy this Summer.

I think that has more to do with the talent/age of the current roster, not the fractured ownership. It is sad though.

 

[Mecca]

Depending on who you talk to, Wade usually sits around 3rd/4th best SG of all-time. And Jerry West isn't in a lot of people's top 10 given the error he played in. Same goes for Bill Russell.

I have Wade in my top 3 SG's of all-time, for buyist reasons.

1) Jordan
2) Bryant
3) Wade

If it weren't for Wade and Kobe's career overlapping one another's, I wonder how many more times Wade would be an NBA all-defense as well as NBA 1st team.

Jerry West never had to play in an era where he had another player in his position to compare himself to like Wade did with Kobe.

There are people out there who think Wade is better, others that say West.

It's been debated by fans for years.


Jerry West vs Dwyane Wade, how close is the debate? - RealGM

http://forums.SportsHoopla.com/show...y-West-vs-Dwyane-Wade-how-close-is-the-debate

Wade vs West - Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

 

[Heatles84]

There are people out there who think Wade is better, others that say West.

It's been debated by fans for years.


Jerry West vs Dwyane Wade, how close is the debate? - RealGM

http://forums.SportsHoopla.com/show...y-West-vs-Dwyane-Wade-how-close-is-the-debate

Wade vs West - Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

It's a very close and reasonable debate. I go on the Wade side of things for obvious reasons. And other legitimate reasons for the stat differential is:

1) Wade played 4 years of his prime playing with Lebron where he sacrificed stats
2) West played in a league where the competition wasn't up-to-par as it was in the 80's and beyond.
3) Wade had to play in the same era as Kobe which took away some of those All-NBA first team places.

West was still a great player, but it is what it is. My opinion means dick when it all comes down to who you place before other. Just another fan with an opinion.

 

[Mecca]

It's a very close and reasonable debate. I go on the Wade side of things for obvious reasons. And other legitimate reasons for the stat differential is:

1) Wade played 4 years of his prime playing with Lebron where he sacrificed stats
2) West played in a league where the competition wasn't up-to-par as it was in the 80's and beyond.
3) Wade had to play in the same era as Kobe which took away some of those All-NBA first team places.

West was still a great player, but it is what it is. My opinion means dick when it all comes down to who you place before other. Just another fan with an opinion.

I think your argument is pretty sound.

I said the same about Wade sacrificing stats.

I have always had a problem with comparing players from different eras.

Like with my MJ as the GOAT argument or Magic over Lebron...

I'm not sure how much of my opinion is based on nostalgia or fact.

 

[Mecca]

I think that has more to do with the talent/age of the current roster, not the fractured ownership. It is sad though.

Agree.

You are nowhere near Sacramento/Clippers level Management dysfunction.

 

[Bolts]

This LeBron debate is still not over