2014 All-Star Week Discussion (Rangers Edition)

[WilltheThrill]

As much as I love EA... he's gotta go. Plain and simple. For what we're paying him its ridiculous what we get. I love the guy. He leads and is one of the last guys on our team that still shows that they have fun... but he's gotta go. You can't pay that much money to a guy who hits .260 and 3 home runs a year or less. He literally provides nothing to the plate, aside from handling the bat well. I feel like we could get a lot for him too (of course we'd have to eat a little $$). Trade EA for a stud minor league arm plus others. That's what JD should be doing right now. Trade him to freakin Baltimore and get Gausman or something idk. Just throwing shit in the fire here. You guys see what I mean. As bad as he is, he's regarded as one of the better SS in the game of baseball in an age where shortstop's are hard to come by. That alone makes him valuable. Trade him to baltimore or find one of the many other teams who are looking for a SS. Get an arm out of it that will be ready for the rotation next season. If you can't get that, then hold on to him.

In what way does Elvis "lead"? I like the guy a lot because he is one of the players I've actually met in person and he couldn't have been more humble and friendly. But as great of a guy he is off the field, he's a mental midget on the field with the maturity level of a third grader. Beltre has fun playing the game too, but he doesn't let it affect his performance. He knows how to bear down and be serious as well. Elvis doesn't. Plus, leaders are guys who step up when the chips are down. Leaders put teams on their backs. Beltre has stepped up and led by example by putting up much better numbers. Elvis has regressed and consistently let the team down with RISP. Maybe Elvis keeps the guys loose by being the team prankster, but I just don't see any way in which he could be called a leader.

But you are exactly right about him not performing anywhere near his contract amount. He's usually very good with the glove and he's a good base stealer. But he's been very average with the bat and terrible as far as power and hitting with men on base are concerned.

People used to bash MY for being over paid (which he certainly was). But while he was a butcher in the field, he could at least hit 10-20 HR a year with a much better RISP avg.. He deserved the criticism he got for sure, but it's just strange that Elvis somehow escapes the same "overpaid" criticisms despite being comparatively ineffective in certain areas.

If you're gonna hit 2 HR a year with a mediocre average, you better be the best in the biz with your glove for $120 Million.

 

[donaldson79]

One of the biggest problems with how we're all viewing EA is where he's hitting (#2) and now how he's hitting IMO. If he were hitting 7th, which is where he should be, the RISP wouldn't be near as big a problem as it is at second. And he's actually starting hitting better the last month and has upped his average.

However, I do not consider him one of the best SS and think his trade value is quite low today. His defense has gone backwards over the past 1 1/2 years.

Good point Will on his maturity level. It wears me out to see him having so much fun when he's playing like crap. Focus and help us win. Lot more fun to have fun winning isn't it?

 

[PDay8810]

"But as great of a guy he is off the field, he's a mental midget on the field with the maturity level of a third grader"

disagree....one of the smartest base runners I've seen....certainly for his age. That's not a mental midget out there. I see a guy to full of himself., needing to be knocked down a notch. I also think he's always been viewed by baseball people as a 260-275 hitter with zero power. Maybe he should bat 8/9 but he knows the game of baseball. Martin? there's your baseball mental midget guy.

I can deal with Elvis being traded. I have no clue how JD/Wash see this. I think a lot depends on how Elvis response the remaining part of the season

 

[Nightcrawler]

Morosi: Tigers are having ongoing discussions with the Rangers about reliever Joakim Soria, sources say. @FOXSports1
9:17am - 18 Jul 14

Better watch out Daniels.... Your dealing with Dombrowski.

 

[WilltheThrill]

"But as great of a guy he is off the field, he's a mental midget on the field with the maturity level of a third grader"

disagree....one of the smartest base runners I've seen....certainly for his age. That's not a mental midget out there. I see a guy to full of himself., needing to be knocked down a notch. I also think he's always been viewed by baseball people as a 260-275 hitter with zero power. Maybe he should bat 8/9 but he knows the game of baseball. Martin? there's your baseball mental midget guy.

I can deal with Elvis being traded. I have no clue how JD/Wash see this. I think a lot depends on how Elvis response the remaining part of the season

I've met the guy. Full of himself he is not. Not one bit. He was as humble, friendly, and talkative as any player I've ever met.

Just because he's a smart base runner doesn't mean he's always got his head screwed on straight. The guy is constantly clowning around, laughing, and cutting up even when the ball is in play or the situation calls for seriousness. He's immature to say the least, and on more than one occasion Beltre has had to bark at him to cut it out and focus.

And as for his base running, he might be great in certain aspects of it. But only Kinsler has been picked off more than Elvis over the last 3 years. That's in all of baseball, not just on the Rangers.

Super nice kid, but still very much a kid.

 

[terpsfball09]

I've met the guy. Full of himself he is not. Not one bit. He was as humble, friendly, and talkative as any player I've ever met.

Just because he's a smart base runner doesn't mean he's always got his head screwed on straight. The guy is constantly clowning around, laughing, and cutting up even when the ball is in play or the situation calls for seriousness. He's immature to say the least, and on more than one occasion Beltre has had to bark at him to cut it out and focus.

And as for his base running, he might be great in certain aspects of it. But only Kinsler has been picked off more than Elvis over the last 3 years. That's in all of baseball, not just on the Rangers.

Super nice kid, but still very much a kid.

Just cuz he laughs a lot and jokes around doesnt make him a good leader. He gels the clubhouse together. He isn't as serious as michael young, but a leader isn't confined to a simple trait. He loosens players up, gives them speeches during spring training, and always makes sure they stay positive no matter the environment. And thats more then literally anyone else on the team (besides belts I guess) can say.

 

[WilltheThrill]

Just cuz he laughs a lot and jokes around doesnt make him a good leader. He gels the clubhouse together. He isn't as serious as michael young, but a leader isn't confined to a simple trait. He loosens players up, gives them speeches during spring training, and always makes sure they stay positive no matter the environment. And thats more then literally anyone else on the team (besides belts I guess) can say.

Gives speeches during spring training? Have you been a witness to these heroic Herb Brooks/Knute Rockne speeches? Elvis acting as the team jester and making guys laugh in the clubhouse does not make him a leader. Leaders lead in one of two ways, either by performance on the field or a commanding veteran presence in the clubhouse. He sure hasn't done any leading on the field, and every time Wash or the reporters who cover the team mention clubhouse leaders, his name isn't mentioned. I've yet to see or hear one shred of evidence which suggests Elvis is some great team leader.

 

[terpsfball09]

Gives speeches during spring training? Have you been a witness to these heroic Herb Brooks/Knute Rockne speeches? Elvis acting as the team jester and making guys laugh in the clubhouse does not make him a leader. Leaders lead in one of two ways, either by performance on the field or a commanding veteran presence in the clubhouse. He sure hasn't done any leading on the field, and every time Wash or the reporters who cover the team mention clubhouse leaders, his name isn't mentioned. I've yet to see or hear one shred of evidence which suggests Elvis is some great team leader.

We have two leaders. Beltre and Elvis. That's it man. Leaders aren't restricted in how they can lead? There are several types of leaders. There are more authoritarian ones like an Ian Kinsler, a Ron Gardenheier (butchered the spelling), jim leyland. There are leaders who keep guys loose. I'm almost positive elvis always keeps it positive in the dugout no matter the score. I've read MANY times that Elvis goes to the mound whenever there's a difficult situation and calms the pitcher down with a joke, or keeps it light. Sure, call him immature, say he doesn't take it serous. But all I know is if I was pitching with runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out I'd want someone to loosen me up cuz I'd be shaking like hell. That's how he leads. I think he has his own way, but I wouldn't even call it unique. There are several mlb players like that. He's one of the longest tenured players on the team. Just cuz Wash doesn't call him out for leading doesn't mean he doesnt do it. I don't even listen to wash make interviews because I think he's the most cliche human being on this planet lol.

 

[terpsfball09]

Gives speeches during spring training? Have you been a witness to these heroic Herb Brooks/Knute Rockne speeches? Elvis acting as the team jester and making guys laugh in the clubhouse does not make him a leader. Leaders lead in one of two ways, either by performance on the field or a commanding veteran presence in the clubhouse. He sure hasn't done any leading on the field, and every time Wash or the reporters who cover the team mention clubhouse leaders, his name isn't mentioned. I've yet to see or hear one shred of evidence which suggests Elvis is some great team leader.

And no to answer your comment... EA is not at the level of Herb Brooks in terms of leadership.....

 

[WilltheThrill]

We have two leaders. Beltre and Elvis. That's it man. Leaders aren't restricted in how they can lead? There are several types of leaders. There are more authoritarian ones like an Ian Kinsler, a Ron Gardenheier (butchered the spelling), jim leyland. There are leaders who keep guys loose. I'm almost positive elvis always keeps it positive in the dugout no matter the score. I've read MANY times that Elvis goes to the mound whenever there's a difficult situation and calms the pitcher down with a joke, or keeps it light. Sure, call him immature, say he doesn't take it serous. But all I know is if I was pitching with runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out I'd want someone to loosen me up cuz I'd be shaking like hell. That's how he leads. I think he has his own way, but I wouldn't even call it unique. There are several mlb players like that. He's one of the longest tenured players on the team. Just cuz Wash doesn't call him out for leading doesn't mean he doesnt do it. I don't even listen to wash make interviews because I think he's the most cliche human being on this planet lol.

And now Ian Kinsler is/was a leader?! No. Just no. He's even said in his own words that the team wanted him to be a leader and that's just not who he is. He flat-out said he wasn't a leader. Ian Kinsler is no authoritarian either. I don't know where you're getting this stuff from, but it isn't rooted in fact at all.

If making jokes to the pitcher qualifies one as a team leader, then I guess Geovany Soto is the team captain.

 

[terpsfball09]

And now Ian Kinsler is/was a leader?! No. Just no. He's even said in his own words that the team wanted him to be a leader and that's just not who he is. He flat-out said he wasn't a leader. Ian Kinsler is no authoritarian either. I don't know where you're getting this stuff from, but it isn't rooted in fact at all.

If making jokes to the pitcher qualifies one as a team leader, then I guess Geovany Soto is the team captain.

he didnt want to be THE leader. There is absolutely no question he was a leader. One of many on a very good team. He often spoke up in the clubhouse and I have links/quotes to prove it. But we arent talking about kinsler, i just cited him as an example that there are several different types of ways you can lead a team. I think that, without question, EA is one of the guys people look up to on this team because of the chemistry that he brings. If EA wasn't the short stop, it would almost look like we took 9 total strangers and put them on the field. Sure, EA is TOO light at times, but, playing the most important position outside of P and C in the entire field, being in the top tier of players at said position, and breaking guys like profar, odor, sardinas into the league speaks volumes. There is absolutely no question he has done these things. None whatsoever. I would put a lot of money that if you asked roogy the two guys on the team he'd go to for help, it'd be EA and belts. No doubt in my mind. That's why I said it would be hard to see him go. If EA left, there wouldn't be anyone on this team who looks like they have fun anymore. But, for the return you could get, I'd pull that trigger anyday.

 

[terpsfball09]

Beltre was even quoted this ST saying something along the lines of "EA is maturing a lot. He's still got some things to work on, but this season I look forward to him being the main leader in the clubhouse. He's going to be great for the young guys as they come into the league."

And in that same article EA was asked about how his easy going personality was going to translate into leadership, which he was quoted as saying "If I changed that, they're probably going to get mad at me, and then it'd be really quiet," he said. "Every year is a little bit more pressure, and I like it. That's what you want as a player. You want to grow and have more expectation and more pressure on you. You can show them the best of you"

 

[terpsfball09]

So, upon seeing those quotes, we'll agree to disagree willy

 

[WilltheThrill]

So, upon seeing those quotes, we'll agree to disagree willy

I like you Terps... I'm just not going to debate this any longer. Those quotes you listed talked about expecting Elvis to develop into a leader this year, not that he was one. The whole team could say in spring training they expect him to lead this season. But unless he actually does, those quotes mean nothing. I've neither seen nor heard anything from Elvis this season which indicates he is any kind of great team leader. You obviously feel otherwise. As you said, we'll just have to disagree here. No big deal.

 

[PDay8810]

I've met the guy. Full of himself he is not. Not one bit. He was as humble, friendly, and talkative as any player I've ever met.

Just because he's a smart base runner doesn't mean he's always got his head screwed on straight. The guy is constantly clowning around, laughing, and cutting up even when the ball is in play or the situation calls for seriousness. He's immature to say the least, and on more than one occasion Beltre has had to bark at him to cut it out and focus.

And as for his base running, he might be great in certain aspects of it. But only Kinsler has been picked off more than Elvis over the last 3 years. That's in all of baseball, not just on the Rangers.

Super nice kid, but still very much a kid.

that's cool with me.
full of himself is thinking he has arrived and not paying attention to detail...the little things. That's what I see more than this 3rd grade maturity statement.


lol....rangers usually lead the league in first movement from a lefty and getting picked off. That's a philosophical problem more so than a bone headed base runner to me.

 

[WilltheThrill]

that's cool with me.
full of himself is thinking he has arrived and not paying attention to detail...the little things. That's what I see more than this 3rd grade maturity statement.


lol....rangers usually lead the league in first movement from a lefty and getting picked off. That's a philosophical problem more so than a bone headed base runner to me.

Ian led the league in getting picked off because his mind wandered off somewhere else... or at least that was the company line. According to the team, he had/has a severe case of ADD and takes medication for it.