2001 Lakers vs Current Warriors

[The Oldtimer]

Bill Russell was a great winner. The kind of competitor you want on your team.

But he isn't as good as those guys. Not even close.

Well I can respect your opinion, but I have seen Bill Russell play against Wilt several times. I would take Russell any day over Wilt. Bill was a great center and would hold his own against Kareem, Hakeem and Wilt. Now Shaq would be a different story.

 

[The Oldtimer]

Hey Bill, good to see ya! How are things? So, what can we help you with?

Bill says go fuck yourself!!!

 

[msgkings322]

Well I can respect your opinion, but I have seen Bill Russell play against Wilt several times. I would take Russell any day over Wilt. Bill was a great center and would hold his own against Kareem, Hakeem and Wilt. Now Shaq would be a different story.

What does 'hold his own' mean? Because he wouldn't score much and he wouldn't prevent them from scoring much either

 

[The Oldtimer]

What does 'hold his own' mean? Because he wouldn't score much and he wouldn't prevent them from scoring much either

Bill wasn't much of a scorer. Bill Russell was a great defensive center and IMO would keep Kareem, Hakeem and Wilt from scoring. If you get a chance watch some videos of Russell and Wilt playing against each other.

 

[tlance]

Bill wasn't much of a scorer. Bill Russell was a great defensive center and IMO would keep Kareem, Hakeem and Wilt from scoring. If you get a chance watch some videos of Russell and Wilt playing against each other.

Bill Russell was like Joakim Noah with Ben Wallace's raw athleticism.

That makes for a fantastic player in any era, but not an all time elite one.

Wilt averaged 30 and 12 on 49% shooting for his career against Russell, which, aside from a lower than normal FG%, is almost exactly Wilt's overall career average.

Sorry, but a player "who isn't much of a scorer" doesn't belong in a conversation with the very best of all time. Because the players on the top do that list do both. They might not be as good defensively as Russell was, but the gap between the offensive games of players like Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Kareem, even Robinson, Moses Malone and Ewing more than makes up for Russell's defensive prowess.

Because all those guys were really good defenders too.

 

[The Oldtimer]

Bill Russell was like Joakim Noah with Ben Wallace's raw athleticism.

That makes for a fantastic player in any era, but not an all time elite one.

Wilt averaged 30 and 12 on 49% shooting for his career against Russell, which, aside from a lower than normal FG%, is almost exactly Wilt's overall career average.

Sorry, but a player "who isn't much of a scorer" doesn't belong in a conversation with the very best of all time. Because the players on the top do that list do both. They might not be as good defensively as Russell was, but the gap between the offensive games of players like Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Kareem, even Robinson, Moses Malone and Ewing more than makes up for Russell's defensive prowess.

Because all those guys were really good defenders too.

Okay fair enough, but I was lucky enough to see Russell at his best against Wilt. It would have been fun to see Russell play head to head against Kareem and Hakeem.

 

[tlance]

Okay fair enough, but I was lucky enough to see Russell at his best against Wilt. It would have been fun to see Russell play head to head against Kareem and Hakeem.

Agreed.

I would also love to see Russell playing today.

Because I think his skill set would be a perfect fit for the modern game. Better than Shaq or Wilt because he was athletic enough to guard smaller players in space.

Robinson and Hakeem would also be unbelievably good today.

 

[CitySushi]

Agreed.

I would also love to see Russell playing today.

Because I think his skill set would be a perfect fit for the modern game. Better than Shaq or Wilt because he was athletic enough to guard smaller players in space.

Robinson and Hakeem would also be unbelievably good today.

I think all it takes is one unbelievably skilled low post big scorer to reset the NBA and get them back into utilizing low post scoring again. Teams are shifting to the 3 ball, but a lot of this has to do with the new defensive rules that allow better separating. But what I think teams are also not taking into account is there's much less physicality on the block too. But bigs now are so enamored with being able to shoot the 3 or long mid ranges, that they tend to work on those more than post skill moves.

Robinson would absolutely still dominate in today's game. Same with Ewing, Hakeem, Shaq, etc. The problem more would be them guarding on the perimeter, but the overall skills of bigs is evolving so the next wave of guys should be able to do so comfortably, with practice.

That's one thing I think a guy like KAT should convert too. He's extremely skilled on the block, but ventures out too much during the game. If he got in the gym and just decide, I'm going to beast everyone in the block, he could do it.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I think all it takes is one unbelievably skilled low post big scorer to reset the NBA and get them back into utilizing low post scoring again. Teams are shifting to the 3 ball, but a lot of this has to do with the new defensive rules that allow better separating. But what I think teams are also not taking into account is there's much less physicality on the block too. But bigs now are so enamored with being able to shoot the 3 or long mid ranges, that they tend to work on those more than post skill moves.

Robinson would absolutely still dominate in today's game. Same with Ewing, Hakeem, Shaq, etc. The problem more would be them guarding on the perimeter, but the overall skills of bigs is evolving so the next wave of guys should be able to do so comfortably, with practice.

That's one thing I think a guy like KAT should convert too. He's extremely skilled on the block, but ventures out too much during the game. If he got in the gym and just decide, I'm going to beast everyone in the block, he could do it.

really, they need to move back the 3 pt line and make it more of a specialty shot again instead of the most important shot in the league.

 

[tlance]

I think all it takes is one unbelievably skilled low post big scorer to reset the NBA and get them back into utilizing low post scoring again. Teams are shifting to the 3 ball, but a lot of this has to do with the new defensive rules that allow better separating. But what I think teams are also not taking into account is there's much less physicality on the block too. But bigs now are so enamored with being able to shoot the 3 or long mid ranges, that they tend to work on those more than post skill moves.

Robinson would absolutely still dominate in today's game. Same with Ewing, Hakeem, Shaq, etc. The problem more would be them guarding on the perimeter, but the overall skills of bigs is evolving so the next wave of guys should be able to do so comfortably, with practice.

That's one thing I think a guy like KAT should convert too. He's extremely skilled on the block, but ventures out too much during the game. If he got in the gym and just decide, I'm going to beast everyone in the block, he could do it.

I disagree.

Barring drastic rule changes making it impossible to double post players, I don't see current trends reversing.

There will surely be great post players in the future who are MVP caliber players on championship teams, but, I would be willing to bet they will either be in the mold of AD or KAT (perimeter skills) or Robinson/Hakeem (ridiculously athletic and able to guard perimeter players in space).

I just don't see this Bell being unrung anytime soon. Post centric basketball is a thing of the past.

 

[tlance]

really, they need to move back the 3 pt line and make it more of a specialty shot again instead of the most important shot in the league.

How much farther can it go back? And do corner 3s go away?

Because that line ain't moving.

 

[The Q]

How much farther can it go back? And do corner 3s go away?

Because that line ain't moving.

I’d be good with that.

 

[logic]

I disagree.

Barring drastic rule changes making it impossible to double post players, I don't see current trends reversing.

There will surely be great post players in the future who are MVP caliber players on championship teams, but, I would be willing to bet they will either be in the mold of AD or KAT (perimeter skills) or Robinson/Hakeem (ridiculously athletic and able to guard perimeter players in space).

I just don't see this Bell being unrung anytime soon. Post centric basketball is a thing of the past.

This is simply true from a math point of view. You do great as a post up big and you hit 0.600. The equivalent scoring from 3 is shooting 0.400, which several guys do better than.

 

[trojanfan12]

Agreed.

I would also love to see Russell playing today.

Because I think his skill set would be a perfect fit for the modern game. Better than Shaq or Wilt because he was athletic enough to guard smaller players in space.

Robinson and Hakeem would also be unbelievably good today.

Hakeem was hard enough to stop or even slow down in the 90's when guys could get physical with him.

In today's game, with it's freedom of movement rules, he would be all but unstoppable. He'd also be even more fun to watch than he was back then.

 

[trojanfan12]

How much farther can it go back? And do corner 3s go away?

Because that line ain't moving.

It should move, but it likely won't. At least not any time soon.

 

[tlance]

It should move, but it likely won't. At least not any time soon.

I don't think it should move.

The game is beautiful today. Yeah, there are bad teams. But the pace is fast, scoring is up and we have a ton of exciting star players.

Why mess with success? The outside in game is great for the fans.

 

[logic]

I don't think it should move.

The game is beautiful today. Yeah, there are bad teams. But the pace is fast, scoring is up and we have a ton of exciting star players.

Why mess with success? The outside in game is great for the fans.

Maybe they should make it a hand checking line as well. You can hand check on defense outside the 3-point line so guys can play tighter. Doesn't hurt the ones made on nice passing, but makes it harder on the guys who just dribble it up and chuck since they can be guarded tighter out there.

 

[msgkings322]

Maybe they should make it a hand checking line as well. You can hand check on defense outside the 3-point line so guys can play tighter. Doesn't hurt the ones made on nice passing, but makes it harder on the guys who just dribble it up and chuck since they can be guarded tighter out there.

Anything that can stop Harden's bullshit I'm in favor of

 

[trojanfan12]

I don't think it should move.

The game is beautiful today. Yeah, there are bad teams. But the pace is fast, scoring is up and we have a ton of exciting star players.

Why mess with success? The outside in game is great for the fans.

I think that widening and lengthening the court would help open the game up even more. I remember the late, great Chick Hearn saying that back in the 80's.

Moving the 3 point line back is a good idea. I agree with Wiggy, that it shouldn't be the most important shot in the game.

The only real way to do that would be by widening and lengthening the court.

 

[logic]

Anything that can stop Harden's bullshit I'm in favor of

You mean like calling traveling?