Series Thread: 1) Golden State Warriors vs. 8) Los Angeles Clippers

[msgkings322]

you are nothing if not fair.

He is, but this also reflects his confidence that Klay is an excellent defender. Even those get beat sometimes.

 

[dtgold88]

He is, but this also reflects his confidence that Klay is an excellent defender. Even those get beat sometimes.

I've been hearing Klay is tasked with guarding a team's top perimeter player. Seems many have been having their way with GS lately. Though I only say this through box scores as I had not seen most of the games.

 

[CitySushi]

He is, but this also reflects his confidence that Klay is an excellent defender. Even those get beat sometimes.

Yup. I'm very confident in Klay's defensive ability. No need to pick and choose plays.

 

[dtgold88]

He's a solid defender. Not sure anyone's ever said otherwise.

 

[msgkings322]

He's a solid defender. Not sure anyone's ever said otherwise.

Wrong
He's an excellent defender, much better than solid.

 

[CitySushi]

I've been hearing Klay is tasked with guarding a team's top perimeter player. Seems many have been having their way with GS lately. Though I only say this through box scores as I had not seen most of the games.

In basketball, probably more so than any sport, good offense always beats good defense. Lou Williams is one of the most prolific scorers in all of basketball. But also Lou comes off the bench, so a good amount of his time took place with Klay off the court. I'm just going by the breakdown of the play by play but here's the breakdown by quarter of Lou's Scoring:

1st Quarter
Lou and Klay together: 2 (1-1)
Klay off court: 5 (2-4)
Total Minutes shared approx: 1:30

2nd Quarter:
Lou and Klay Together: 8 (4-8)
Total Minutes shared approx: 9:30

3rd Quarter:
Lou and Klay together: 0 (0-0)
Klay off court: 8 (3-6)
Total minutes shared approx: 2:30

4th Quarter:
Lou and Klay together: 2 (1-2)
Total minutes shared approx: 9:00

From here we absolutely know that 13 of Lou's 25 came with Klay off the court.

Basically what we do know is that in 22:30 minutes Lou scored 12 points with Klay on the court at the same time as him. I wouldn't exactly call that torching him...would you?

Los Angeles Clippers at Golden State Warriors Play-By-Play, April 13, 2019 | Basketball-Reference.com

 

[tlance]

I've been hearing Klay is tasked with guarding a team's top perimeter player. Seems many have been having their way with GS lately. Though I only say this through box scores as I had not seen most of the games.

Did you watch the play @CitySushi posted though?

Yes, Williams scored. Yes he made a great move to beat Klay and I am sure Klay would say he should have guarded it better.

But, 2 things jump out:

1) boogie's man was setting a ball screen. When Klay felt it, he jumped to the side of the screen forcing Williams back the other way. It looked like Klay was trying to "ICE" the screen by not letting Williams use it and forcing him back to the big help. If they were going "ICE", Boogie should have been in the exact spot where Williams pulled up from to contest, or more likely prevent the shot.

2) Boogie was pretty low under the screen, but on the opposite side of where he should have been to run "ICE". He was also too low to hedge. Boogie's position would have been OK if Klay were going under the screen, but you don't go under on a Lou Williams ball screen.

In other words, Boogie was definitely out of position no matter what the coverage was. Klay might have been wrong too. But, the only logical reason I can think of for Klay to jump to the screener's side is if they were running "ICE", which forces the ballhandler to reject the screen. And Boogie was way out of position if that was the case. If they were running "ICE", Klay got beat, but he at least did the most important part of his job before getting beat.

It takes 3 players to effectively defend a ball screen. Nobody can do it alone. And it looks like Boogie was probably more at fault there.

 

[Shanemansj13]

In basketball, probably more so than any sport, good offense always beats good defense. Lou Williams is one of the most prolific scorers in all of basketball. But also Lou comes off the bench, so a good amount of his time took place with Klay off the court. I'm just going by the breakdown of the play by play but here's the breakdown by quarter of Lou's Scoring:

1st Quarter
Lou and Klay together: 2 (1-1)
Klay off court: 5 (2-4)
Total Minutes shared approx: 1:30

2nd Quarter:
Lou and Klay Together: 8 (4-8)
Total Minutes shared approx: 9:30

3rd Quarter:
Lou and Klay together: 0 (0-0)
Klay off court: 8 (3-6)
Total minutes shared approx: 2:30

4th Quarter:
Lou and Klay together: 2 (1-2)
Total minutes shared approx: 9:00

From here we absolutely know that 13 of Lou's 25 came with Klay off the court.

Basically what we do know is that in 22:30 minutes Lou scored 12 points with Klay on the court at the same time as him. I wouldn't exactly call that torching him...would you?

Los Angeles Clippers at Golden State Warriors Play-By-Play, April 13, 2019 | Basketball-Reference.com

Klay sucks and wants to lick Lebron's nuts. The quicker you admit this the quicker we can move on from this topic

 

[CitySushi]

Did you watch the play @CitySushi posted though?

Yes, Williams scored. Yes he made a great move to beat Klay and I am sure Klay would say he should have guarded it better.

But, 2 things jump out:

1) boogie's man was setting a ball screen. When Klay felt it, he jumped to the side of the screen forcing Williams back the other way. It looked like Klay was trying to "ICE" the screen by not letting Williams use it and forcing him back to the big help. If they were going "ICE", Boogie should have been in the exact spot where Williams pulled up from to contest, or more likely prevent the shot.

2) Boogie was pretty low under the screen, but on the opposite side of where he should have been to run "ICE". He was also too low to hedge. Boogie's position would have been OK if Klay were going under the screen, but you don't go under on a Lou Williams ball screen.

In other words, Boogie was definitely out of position no matter what the coverage was. Klay might have been wrong too. But, the only logical reason I can think of for Klay to jump to the screener's side is if they were running "ICE", which forces the ballhandler to reject the screen. And Boogie was way out of position if that was the case. If they were running "ICE", Klay got beat, but he at least did the most important part of his job before getting beat.

It takes 3 players to effectively defend a ball screen. Nobody can do it alone. And it looks like Boogie was probably more at fault there.

I saw this too, but I didn't want to point it out for cherry picking the play, lol.

 

[msgkings322]

Did you watch the play @CitySushi posted though?

Yes, Williams scored. Yes he made a great move to beat Klay and I am sure Klay would say he should have guarded it better.

But, 2 things jump out:

1) boogie's man was setting a ball screen. When Klay felt it, he jumped to the side of the screen forcing Williams back the other way. It looked like Klay was trying to "ICE" the screen by not letting Williams use it and forcing him back to the big help. If they were going "ICE", Boogie should have been in the exact spot where Williams pulled up from to contest, or more likely prevent the shot.

2) Boogie was pretty low under the screen, but on the opposite side of where he should have been to run "ICE". He was also too low to hedge. Boogie's position would have been OK if Klay were going under the screen, but you don't go under on a Lou Williams ball screen.

In other words, Boogie was definitely out of position no matter what the coverage was. Klay might have been wrong too. But, the only logical reason I can think of for Klay to jump to the screener's side is if they were running "ICE", which forces the ballhandler to reject the screen. And Boogie was way out of position if that was the case. If they were running "ICE", Klay got beat, but he at least did the most important part of his job before getting beat.

It takes 3 players to effectively defend a ball screen. Nobody can do it alone. And it looks like Boogie was probably more at fault there.

This is stupid. Muh boxscore is a better way to evaluate defense.

 

[CitySushi]

Oh and additionally

In 22:30 sharing the court with Klay, Lou got up 11 shots.

In the 9 other minutes Lou played, he got up 10 shots.

That might also have something to do with the shot availability for Lou based on who is guarding him.

 

[msgkings322]

Klay sucks and wants to lick Lebron's nuts. The quicker you admit this the quicker we can move on from this topic

Bro, LeBron is texting Klay every day hoping to get hooked up with his IG leftovers

 

[dtgold88]

Did you watch the play @CitySushi posted though?

Yes, Williams scored. Yes he made a great move to beat Klay and I am sure Klay would say he should have guarded it better.

But, 2 things jump out:

1) boogie's man was setting a ball screen. When Klay felt it, he jumped to the side of the screen forcing Williams back the other way. It looked like Klay was trying to "ICE" the screen by not letting Williams use it and forcing him back to the big help. If they were going "ICE", Boogie should have been in the exact spot where Williams pulled up from to contest, or more likely prevent the shot.

2) Boogie was pretty low under the screen, but on the opposite side of where he should have been to run "ICE". He was also too low to hedge. Boogie's position would have been OK if Klay were going under the screen, but you don't go under on a Lou Williams ball screen.

In other words, Boogie was definitely out of position no matter what the coverage was. Klay might have been wrong too. But, the only logical reason I can think of for Klay to jump to the screener's side is if they were running "ICE", which forces the ballhandler to reject the screen. And Boogie was way out of position if that was the case. If they were running "ICE", Klay got beat, but he at least did the most important part of his job before getting beat.

It takes 3 players to effectively defend a ball screen. Nobody can do it alone. And it looks like Boogie was probably more at fault there.

Sorry, but to me it says you like Klay as a defender and don't like Boogie.

 

[msgkings322]

Sorry, but to me it says you like Klay as a defender and don't like Boogie.

Yeah that's about what we'd expect you to take away from a detailed description of a play

 

[dtgold88]

Wrong
He's an excellent defender, much better than solid.

as long as we ignore defensive metrics.

 

[dtgold88]

In basketball, probably more so than any sport, good offense always beats good defense. Lou Williams is one of the most prolific scorers in all of basketball. But also Lou comes off the bench, so a good amount of his time took place with Klay off the court. I'm just going by the breakdown of the play by play but here's the breakdown by quarter of Lou's Scoring:

1st Quarter
Lou and Klay together: 2 (1-1)
Klay off court: 5 (2-4)
Total Minutes shared approx: 1:30

2nd Quarter:
Lou and Klay Together: 8 (4-8)
Total Minutes shared approx: 9:30

3rd Quarter:
Lou and Klay together: 0 (0-0)
Klay off court: 8 (3-6)
Total minutes shared approx: 2:30

4th Quarter:
Lou and Klay together: 2 (1-2)
Total minutes shared approx: 9:00

From here we absolutely know that 13 of Lou's 25 came with Klay off the court.

Basically what we do know is that in 22:30 minutes Lou scored 12 points with Klay on the court at the same time as him. I wouldn't exactly call that torching him...would you?

Los Angeles Clippers at Golden State Warriors Play-By-Play, April 13, 2019 | Basketball-Reference.com

Not sure I said he torched him. But I also wouldn't call 6-11 shooting being stopped by him.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Bro, LeBron is texting Klay every day hoping to get hooked up with his IG leftovers

He is married. Has been for a long time. He doesn't need IG skanks, cmon man. Tiger and Klay can keep plugging them

 

[msgkings322]

as long as we ignore defensive metrics.

Nah, just gotta ignore the opinion of every person in the NBA who understands the game far better than we do

 

[Shanemansj13]

Sorry, but to me it says you like Klay as a defender and don't like Boogie.

Lou was sliding past Boogie every time. He definitely wasn't getting in the right position and when he was Lou just made a nice shot or found a way to score

 

[CitySushi]

Not sure I said he torched him. But I also wouldn't call 6-11 shooting being stopped by him.

Stopping him isn't always just about percentage...it's volume. Like I said in my other post Lou got up 11 attempts against Klay in 22:30 minutes, or about 1 shot ever 2 minutes. In the 9 minutes he played without Klay on the floor, Lou got up 10 shots, or over 1 shot every minute.

Part of playing defense, is not allowing a shot to be taken at all, rather than simply defending one taken.