Series Thread: 1) Golden State Warriors vs. 8) Los Angeles Clippers

[dtgold88]

They were definitely a great defensive team. Without that stupid banked 3 by DRose that still pisses me off the Cavs win 4-1. Lucky shit lol

I was actually thinking about that play as I typed my last post. Was thinking someone might say Rose won a game and not Butler but that was a terrible shot that just went in.

Just as lucky was the missed (ignored?) TO by Blatt.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Yeah...that's why I said IMO. and I do have something to support it. I've seen Butler win a playoff series as the best player (at worst, in discussion as best player). I've never seen Klay do it.

Kyrie's kind of ball dominant and they made it work with Lebron and Love.

Yeah but it doesn't make Butler a #1 and Klay not lol. It's just a circle jerk discussion bc nobody knows what Klay will be. It is all about team makeup. Looking a the playoffs right now, Klay could definitely be #1 on more than a couple of these playoff teams.

You act like Butler was a clear #1 on that Bulls team that ONE year they finally won a playoff series. He wasn't. Pau had just as many win shares. DRose wasn't the Drose in the past but he still was an explosive force.

The point is Butler we know can be a 1a or 1b player on a very good playoff team with a great supporting cast.
There is no reason to think Klay could do the same but the fact is we don't know.

Doesn't really matter, as long as Steph and Klay stay in GS we might never find out.
We just see Jimmy going from team to team.

Do you think he is a #1 on Philly? Bc there are basically 4 guys that average the same PPG or more than him and are all impacts to the team. I guess we will see what the 76ers think of Butler when they have to choose between Tobias Harris or Jimmy Butler.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Neither Klay nor Butler would be good number ones. Of the two Butler is more feasible as a one. Not a good one though.


Hell AD as a one with a semi mediocre cast can't do much either.

Lebron is pretty much alone in that regard

 

[tlance]

You said he cannot be the best player on a good team. You were wrong. Now he must be the vocal leader too (which you don't know if he was or was not)? And, hey, let's add another caveat and say a contender. Can you make up the rules and stick to them?

That Bulls' team gave the Cavs their best battle until the Finals.

Semantics. When I say "good team", I mean a contender.

I think he could be the best player on a playoff team if constructed correctly. But so could Klay. Not on a contender. That team was good. They weren't a legit contender.

And there is also a strong case to be made for Derrick Rose was still their guy that year. At the very least, Rose was the #1 option and the focal point for opposing defenses when he was healthy. I do believe Butler was a better player that year, but because he was the better defender.

And while I was not in the Bulls locker room in 2015, you are being naive if you think anybody but Joakim Noah was the vocal leader of that group. Butler was an upstart.

I think you are moving the goal posts here. Because those who know me know that the reason I hate the Wizards blueprint over time is the best possible outcome for them was about what these Bulls accomplished in 2015. That is the probably the ceiling for a Butler (or Klay) led team. And I do think a Klay led team could win 45 or so if built correctly.

But, a team with Klay as option 2 or 3 would be considerably better than a team with Butler as 2 or 3 in just about any situation.

 

[CitySushi]

But I always say IMO and we cannot be sure. Not absolute or extreme like many I'm talking to.

And even though I'm told I never listen to other arguments (ironically, by someone who wont listen to the other side) I think that's an excellent argument you used with the Clippers. Way he's playing I think Lou might be a better player on that team (as he's also a playmaker for others, and Beverly gives them the D Klay would offer), but a case could be made for Klay.

Trust me when I say this: No one gives more of the D in LA than Klay does.

 

[CitySushi]

We should actually turn this argument into: Is Jimmy Butler better than Russell Westbrook.

Facts:
As a #1 player, Jimmy Butler has advanced to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Facts:
As a #1 player, Russell Westbrook has never advanced past the 1st round.

Discuss.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

We should actually turn this argument into: Is Jimmy Butler better than Russell Westbrook.

Facts:
As a #1 player, Jimmy Butler has advanced to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Facts:
As a #1 player, Russell Westbrook has never advanced past the 1st round.

Discuss.

Lol

 

[Shanemansj13]

We should actually turn this argument into: Is Jimmy Butler better than Russell Westbrook.

Facts:
As a #1 player, Jimmy Butler has advanced to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Facts:
As a #1 player, Russell Westbrook has never advanced past the 1st round.

Discuss.

Jimmy bc he got into the 2nd round lol. This is a fact.

 

[CitySushi]

Jimmy bc he got into the 2nd round lol. This is a fact.

BIG FACTS

 

[WiggyRuss]

communicating that is against the CBA and could result in a hefty fine and loss of picks. Now I don't doubt it happens, and might have happened here. But guess what....if it did they wouldn't let anyone know.

And, yes, I get they were almost assuredly aware he wouldn't accept, but they still had to make the offer and it's all they could offer.

Now do you get you have zero to support them not wanting him to be anything other than your opinion and it's made with a preconceived agenda against him? Nor do you know that Philly wont keep him?

is that a joke? it happens all the time. Everyone in the world knows that Irving and Durant and Kawhi are going to get max offers. Theres plenty of ways to say it without explicitly saying it. I mean, I cant believe you are that naive and you are instead just trying to make the argument becauuse its there.

 

[WiggyRuss]

No disagreement......but wiggy claimed Minnesota wanted no part of him which is clearly false. Claims the same for Philly and we have no clue one way or the other on that yet.

I mean, Minnesota wanted a part of him at 27M a year- that is no doubt true- but that was, is, and always will be a pie in the sky pipe dream that both sides knew was 100% never going to happen. It was not a serious nor a credible offer.

id be interested in Jimmy Butler too- but not at his market value. The Twolves never had any interest at all in paying him what the market will give him

every team in the league is interested in just about every single player in the league for the right price.

the Twolves never made a credible offer and had no intention of ever making a credible offer. and i cant blame them--- he is a guy that just seems to wear out his welcome very very fast

 

[WiggyRuss]

shiiiiiiiit id even let Whiteside be my teams 4th big and come off the bench for like 6M a year--- everyone has their price.

 

[dtgold88]

No one would disagree with you on Klay (but you'll find a way)

As far as your usual ad hominem, don't you know by now it doesn't work on me?

Oh I know. You'll keep talking in extremes.

 

[dtgold88]

I mean, Minnesota wanted a part of him at 27M a year- that is no doubt true- but that was, is, and always will be a pie in the sky pipe dream that both sides knew was 100% never going to happen. It was not a serious nor a credible offer.

id be interested in Jimmy Butler too- but not at his market value. The Twolves never had any interest at all in paying him what the market will give him

every team in the league is interested in just about every single player in the league for the right price.

the Twolves never made a credible offer and had no intention of ever making a credible offer. and i cant blame them--- he is a guy that just seems to wear out his welcome very very fast

Or they made the only offer they could, he told them he wasn't gonna stay and they got something for him.

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah but it doesn't make Butler a #1 and Klay not lol. It's just a circle jerk discussion bc nobody knows what Klay will be. It is all about team makeup. Looking a the playoffs right now, Klay could definitely be #1 on more than a couple of these playoff teams.

You act like Butler was a clear #1 on that Bulls team that ONE year they finally won a playoff series. He wasn't. Pau had just as many win shares. DRose wasn't the Drose in the past but he still was an explosive force.

The point is Butler we know can be a 1a or 1b player on a very good playoff team with a great supporting cast.
There is no reason to think Klay could do the same but the fact is we don't know.

Doesn't really matter, as long as Steph and Klay stay in GS we might never find out.
We just see Jimmy going from team to team.

Do you think he is a #1 on Philly? Bc there are basically 4 guys that average the same PPG or more than him and are all impacts to the team. I guess we will see what the 76ers think of Butler when they have to choose between Tobias Harris or Jimmy Butler.

Definitely going in circles for sure. Yes, I get we don't know if Klay could do it. But we do know Butler has been, at worst, arguably his team's best player in a playoff win. Klay has not. Could he? Probably for some teams if just plopped onto their team.

 

[dtgold88]

Semantics. When I say "good team", I mean a contender.

I think he could be the best player on a playoff team if constructed correctly. But so could Klay. Not on a contender. That team was good. They weren't a legit contender.

And there is also a strong case to be made for Derrick Rose was still their guy that year. At the very least, Rose was the #1 option and the focal point for opposing defenses when he was healthy. I do believe Butler was a better player that year, but because he was the better defender.

And while I was not in the Bulls locker room in 2015, you are being naive if you think anybody but Joakim Noah was the vocal leader of that group. Butler was an upstart.

I think you are moving the goal posts here. Because those who know me know that the reason I hate the Wizards blueprint over time is the best possible outcome for them was about what these Bulls accomplished in 2015. That is the probably the ceiling for a Butler (or Klay) led team. And I do think a Klay led team could win 45 or so if built correctly.

But, a team with Klay as option 2 or 3 would be considerably better than a team with Butler as 2 or 3 in just about any situation.

was going to say cannot really disagree until you claimed I moved the goal posts.

You - "Butler cannot be the #1 player on a good team..........no, wait, a vocal leader.......no, wait, on a contending team."

 

[dtgold88]

Trust me when I say this: No one gives more of the D in LA than Klay does.

Not so sure Klay is a better defender than Beverly.

And would add something. I would also think you could drop Kevin Love onto the Clips. He's be their best player AND they'd still win 48 or more.

Not sure just dropping someone onto a ready made playoff team is the true test.

 

[dtgold88]

We should actually turn this argument into: Is Jimmy Butler better than Russell Westbrook.

Facts:
As a #1 player, Jimmy Butler has advanced to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Facts:
As a #1 player, Russell Westbrook has never advanced past the 1st round.

Discuss.

Facts - Klay has never been the #1 on his team since college.

Excellent deflection though by you.

 

[dtgold88]

is that a joke? it happens all the time. Everyone in the world knows that Irving and Durant and Kawhi are going to get max offers. Theres plenty of ways to say it without explicitly saying it. I mean, I cant believe you are that naive and you are instead just trying to make the argument becauuse its there.

Because guys will get max offers doesn't mean teams have called and told them they will get max offers. And I'd say just as likely Butler gets a max as it is for Kyrie.

 

[msgkings322]

Oh I know. You'll keep talking in extremes.

Or I'll just keep doing what I do and you will keep mischaracterizing it. I do just as many 'IMO' posts as you, and say 'probably' and 'maybe' plenty as well. You're free to keep being wrong, though. It's all good.