That is why we signed Norman Shark

[Stymietee]

I will say this. IF we finish 6-10 we will be looking for a coach and a QB. I honestly dont think Kirk is or ever could be good enough for this owner and fan base. I think Kirk caps out at a Trent Dilfer/Alex Smith/ Joe Flacco level. A guy who can be solid, and given enough talent around him you can win with. But the owner and fan base want an elite guy that sells jerseys and is in the MVP conversation every year.

So while we might get that top ten pick, and might even have boat loads of cash, there wont be a defensive retooling unless its of the kind the Giants just did. If we finish 6-10 priority #1 will be a QB.

Not too sure about looking for a new QB, just posted another response that explains why.

 

[Sharkinva]

Not too sure about looking for a new QB, just posted another response that explains why.

If we are 6-10 no way does Kirk get a long term deal, and no way do we tag him again at $24 million ( thats about half of that huge cap space of which you speak). If Kirk doesnt earn a long term deal ( better than 6-10 finish) we will be looking for a QB. My bet would be 9-7 with Kirk having a better or at minimum equal year to last year or he is done here.

 

[Stymietee]

If we are 6-10 no way does Kirk get a long term deal, and no way do we tag him again at $24 million ( thats about half of that huge cap space of which you speak). If Kirk doesnt earn a long term deal ( better than 6-10 finish) we will be looking for a QB. My bet would be 9-7 with Kirk having a better or at minimum equal year to last year or he is done here.

Kirk should have taken the 12 -15 million deal that was offered. As many are now realizing that is what he's worth, even though the going rate is much higher. Contrary to what too many here are now saying, he doesn't need everything to go right to be effective, nor does he need to do the impossible, be more than he is. Nope the perfect system for him is exactly as you just described, a Kansas City/ Baltimore type setup and that means running the ball so well that it limits his opportunities.

 

[Sharkinva]

Kirk should have taken the 12 -15 million deal that was offered. As many are now realizing that is what he's worth, even though the going rate is much higher. Contrary to what too many here are now saying, he doesn't need everything to go right to be effective, nor does he need to do the impossible, be more than he is. Nope the perfect system for him is exactly as you just described, a Kansas City/ Baltimore type setup and that means running the ball so well that it limits his opportunities.

If you knew most people that were doing your job were getting paid on average $20 an hour, would you do the same job for $12-15 dollars an hour?? Knowing that if you went to another company they would pay you the going rate and likely more??

Flacco makes $22 million a year.. he has a Super Bowl to his name.

Smith makes $17 million a year average... he does not.

Tannehill makes $19.5 a year

Osewiler and Tyrod Taylor both got $18 million a year.

I think this fan base as a whole is unrealistic in their approach. NO one bitches when we pay some other teams players $60, $75 or $100 Million Dollars in a contract.

But pay one of our own the going rate at any position and OMFG the nerve of this bum to want to get paid even the average of what a starter at his position is getting paid.

 

[Stymietee]

If you knew most people that were doing your job were getting paid on average $20 an hour, would you do the same job for $12-15 dollars an hour?? Knowing that if you went to another company they would pay you the going rate and likely more??

Flacco makes $22 million a year.. he has a Super Bowl to his name.

Smith makes $17 million a year average... he does not.

Tannehill makes $19.5 a year

Osewiler and Tyrod Taylor both got $18 million a year.

I think this fan base as a whole is unrealistic in their approach. NO one bitches when we pay some other teams players $60, $75 or $100 Million Dollars in a contract.

But pay one of our own the going rate at any position and OMFG the nerve of this bum to want to get paid even the average of what a starter at his position is getting paid.

Clearly we are more invested in this team than any other, so it's understandable that we scrutinize our guys more closely. ANY good GM will readilly admit that the extent that they concern themselves with what other teams are paying their guys is zip!

BTW: If my skill level was not in line with what others were being paid, I would expect a lower salary. Now if I could get pay equivalence elsewhere, I would take it with this caveat....what's expected of me will also rise, not having the same skills set I would quickly be exposed and likely working at the local 7-11.

 

[Stymietee]

If you knew most people that were doing your job were getting paid on average $20 an hour, would you do the same job for $12-15 dollars an hour?? Knowing that if you went to another company they would pay you the going rate and likely more??

Flacco makes $22 million a year.. he has a Super Bowl to his name.

Smith makes $17 million a year average... he does not.

Tannehill makes $19.5 a year

Osewiler and Tyrod Taylor both got $18 million a year.

I think this fan base as a whole is unrealistic in their approach. NO one bitches when we pay some other teams players $60, $75 or $100 Million Dollars in a contract.

But pay one of our own the going rate at any position and OMFG the nerve of this bum to want to get paid even the average of what a starter at his position is getting paid.

One other note, Both Flacco and Smith are in systems that rely more upon others than either of them, which are run the ball the effectively teams. That's the philosophy of both of their coaches. I haven't followed either of them closely enough this season to know their success rates. Quick question though, where do you see Kirk going if...if...IF he goes?

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I have no idea how the Kirk thing will play out, I do know that starting level QBs get insane deals. And there is a reason for that, an average QB is still the 16th best QB in the world. If they cut ties with Kirk what exactly is Plan B?

 

[j_y19]

I have no idea how the Kirk thing will play out, I do know that starting level QBs get insane deals. And there is a reason for that, an average QB is still the 16th best QB in the world. If they cut ties with Kirk what exactly is Plan B?

Pay some other journeyman QB a huge amount of money.

 

[Sharkinva]

Clearly we are more invested in this team than any other, so it's understandable that we scrutinize our guys more closely. ANY good GM will readilly admit that the extent that they concern themselves with what other teams are paying their guys is zip!

BTW: If my skill level was not in line with what others were being paid, I would expect a lower salary. Now if I could get pay equivalence elsewhere, I would take it with this caveat....what's expected of me will also rise, not having the same skills set I would quickly be exposed and likely working at the local 7-11.

The thing is, Kirks Skill level is in line, and possibly better than guys like Oswieler, Taylor and a few others making the $17-20 Million per year range. Or do you really think Alex Smith is that much better than Kirk??

 

[Sharkinva]

One other note, Both Flacco and Smith are in systems that rely more upon others than either of them, which are run the ball the effectively teams. That's the philosophy of both of their coaches. I haven't followed either of them closely enough this season to know their success rates. Quick question though, where do you see Kirk going if...if...IF he goes?

That wont be determined until years end when we see what teams are actually in need of QB outside of us. I wouldnt rule out the Jets as Fitz isnt getting any younger though.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Exactly. After 47 picks in 2 weeks the Jets would be thrilled to throw a ton of money at a QB as good as Kirk.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I will say it like this as far as our GM and the coach goes.

If Gruden doesnt get this team to at least contend for the division, he is gone. Barry will be gone with him.

I think our GM has a short list of people he would like to try and hire as a coach. That list starts with Jim Harbaugh, then goes to Darrell Bevell.


Gruden either proves he is a coaching genius and at minimum finishes 2nd in the division, or he is gone.

You are making tons of assumptions in this thread without any real inside knowledge of the situation. Let this play out & then we can start sorting out the situation.

 

[skinsdad62]

We are 2-2, and are still in it for sure . Too early for the doom and gloom

 

[SoCalWizFan]

We are 2-2, and are still in it for sure . Too early for the doom and gloom

Agree completely. Reading some of these threads I would have sworn that the Redskins lost on Sun. That was the only game that I will attend this season & I thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

[gkekoa]

We are 2-2 and I don't think we have played close to the level we can.

KC hasn't played well but somehow statistically, he is middle of the pack in his worst categories.

 

[Stymietee]

The thing is, Kirks Skill level is in line, and possibly better than guys like Oswieler, Taylor and a few others making the $17-20 Million per year range. Or do you really think Alex Smith is that much better than Kirk??

Absolutely YES!!!!! In the system that he plays in. However if you switch them out, Alex Smith becomes less the player that he currently is... here and Kirk becomes much better as a player there. To play on the old Spike Lee / Jordan Nike theme....."it's the system....gotta be the system"

 

[Sharkinva]

Absolutely YES!!!!! In the system that he plays in. However if you switch them out, Alex Smith becomes less the player that he currently is... here and Kirk becomes much better as a player there. To play on the old Spike Lee / Jordan Nike theme....."it's the system....gotta be the system"

So let me make sure I got you.....

KC would excel in the system in KC
Smith would wither and die in DC??

If this is truly what you meant to say ( which your post alludes to) then Kirk most deefinetly is worth more than $12-15 million a year.

Side note I realize you were not a fan of Shanahan, and suspect you detest Gruden.... we wont go into why you feel the system is really the issue here as thats an entirely different topic.

 

[Stymietee]

That wont be determined until years end when we see what teams are actually in need of QB outside of us. I wouldnt rule out the Jets as Fitz isnt getting any younger though.

I've got to do a bit more study on Todd Bowles offensive philosophy, though off the cuff I tend to believe that it's gotta be somewhat in line with Joe Gibbs. If that's the case, I can see Kirk doing major damage against opponents with a potent running game.

 

[Stymietee]

So let me make sure I got you.....

KC would excel in the system in KC
Smith would wither and die in DC??

If this is truly what you meant to say ( which your post alludes to) then Kirk most deefinetly is worth more than $12-15 million a year.

Side note I realize you were not a fan of Shanahan, and suspect you detest Gruden.... we wont go into why you feel the system is really the issue here as thats an entirely different topic.

I agree Kirk is worth more than $12-15 million a year If...IF...IF... he played in a system like the one in KC. To be clear, he is not a really good fit in Gruden's pass happy system. He can and does function in this system, but as you and by now everyone else knows, without a really effective run game Kirk much like the Alex Smiths of the world are much less effective.

I absolutely hated M. Shanahan's offensive philosophy. That small quick offensive linemen BS was exposed time and again (yeah he won two SB's mostly because of the Orange Crush Def.) and bringing that nonsense to the NFC East was a huge mistake.

Kinda like Gruden though, dude has a folksy manner about himself that draws you in....in a comfortable way. As for his offensive philosophy, I'm not convinced that it can be successful at a championship or SB level over time. Sure he could win one anything's possible. But again this is the NFCE where historically, SB's are won by the biggest baddest MF'ers on the block. Interestingly enough, that old school, build 'em big, tough, strong and fast is EXACTLY SM's philosophical vision in building this team. So I'm more with Scott than Gruden at this point.

 

[Stymietee]

So let me make sure I got you.....

KC would excel in the system in KC
Smith would wither and die in DC??

If this is truly what you meant to say ( which your post alludes to) then Kirk most deefinetly is worth more than $12-15 million a year.

Side note I realize you were not a fan of Shanahan, and suspect you detest Gruden.... we wont go into why you feel the system is really the issue here as thats an entirely different topic.

BTW: "wither and die in DC??"...hardly, but his effectiveness would become suspect because unlike KC there is no true desire to be a run first offense. I know that we all would love to have "that guy" at QB, they unfortunately, are few and far in coming. To be honest because of our current offensive philosophy, we aren't really giving Kirk a real chance to become "that guy" either.