Sponsor dumps Brandon Marshall

[shopson67]

Then listen to the cops and let the courts sort it out. Too many people break out the tough guy act with cops, and then they wonder why the cops get more aggressive in dealing with them. Listen to the cops, be respectful, do what they say, and odds are you're going to make it out ok.

That's all great, but you're dealing with a community that is increasingly more fearful of these events happening and as a result panics when faced with law enforcement, much like law enforcement seems to be panicking in these scenarios. It's a situation that needs to be repaired on both sides.

 

[chf]

Then listen to the cops and let the courts sort it out. Too many people break out the tough guy act with cops, and then they wonder why the cops get more aggressive in dealing with them. Listen to the cops, be respectful, do what they say, and odds are you're going to make it out ok.

Odds are. Not good enough. When there ARE bad cops, they have to be held accountable. But they're usually not. Again, the threshold for prosecuting a cop is incredibly high. Those bad apples spoil the public's perception of ALL cops, which is not a good thing.

 

[cdumler7]

Wow, see now that's fvcked up.

That it was. It was a year long process. I had tested out in the top 10% for the physical tests. The top 1% for intelligence and problem solving. I had a very clean record. Went through all of my interviews. Heck they flew out from Olympia WA to Nebraska to interview my wife's family and my family to see what they had to say about me. They even called my ex-girlfriends to see what they had to say about me. All very positive reviews and got to the final interview with the Chief of Police who told me that they were looking for a new bread of police that like I said could problem solve and show compassion towards people. They ended up hiring the two guys who were ex-military with if I remember right some pretty sketchy backgrounds when it came to assaults. So they told me because I tested so high they could never drop me from their list but they just didn't think I would be a good fit and it wasn't worth me to keep trying because they would just keep denying me.

 

[Broncos6482]

I've known some cops too. Yep, humans just like all of us (that's the point), and they're required BY LAW to respond to all situations where they're needed. Domestic calls are the situations most likely to end up with a dead cop. They HAVE to respond to those. They HAVE to enter the home, KNOWING that there's a 50 % chance (or better) that there's a gun in the home.

So while a soldier's ROE would tell them NOT to do something stupid, we tell our cops they MUST do stupid stuff.

So is it any wonder that cops are strung way too tight in America? That they shoot sometimes when they don't have to? Nope. That's why the best police forces use special training to TEACH cops about de-escalation.

As for the second to last sentence, c'mon now. Don't bullshvt. Feel free to read up on total institutions if you like. Police, military, prison guards, religious cults. They all ATTRACT certain types of individuals. People who LIKE to hold power over other people. This is pretty basic stuff. All of these organizations try to screen out people with personalities like this. Because with a gun and a badge they just make horrible employees.

I'd say about 20$ of the bouncers I worked with were these types of guys - they LIKED conflict, they LIKED fighting. It was a GOOD night if they got to fight.

I bounced for two years in the biggest college bar in NA,and never threw a punch. Why? Because I was 'good cop.' Just agree with people and they do what you want them to do... easy. 'Yep, I know it's not fair you've got a table full of drinks still, but it's closing time, and i need you to move to the door. If it was up to me, I'd let you sit and finish all of them. Rules man, rules...'

Now it's damn easy to stir up a redneck with 14 Budweisers in him. And those 20% would do that. Hard to weed them out because they can claim the redneck started it, AND because there's a code of keeping your mouth shut about your co-workers. (that sounds familiar).

Is the % as high with the cops? Dunno. Like I say, most places that hire cops have psych evaluations to weed out those guys. So I could see it being less. But how many cops are there in the US? So even if the number is 10%, that's a LOT of cops who get off on power.

Now having written that wall of text, you'd still have a LOT of shootings just because cops are scared shvtless (fight or flight response) regularly.

I wouldn't want to be a cop.

Great post. I think the bottom line is we have some asshole cops and some asshole criminals, and because they like to escalate things, the non-assholes get wound up and put on edge, which makes things more likely to escalate even if neither side wants to.

If we could all treat each other with more respect I believe a lot of this would go away. But instead we've got groups like BLM stirring up the perception that cops are out there targeting black people, and you've got cops that are then targeted like what happened in Dallas, and it just causes more division and more distrust. Then you've got situations like the south side of Chicago where they're calling for more help from the police, but the police don't want to go in there because it's so bad and they worry if they have to shoot someone, even if it's totally justifiable, they'll still be blamed, and you can see what a mess it's become.

 

[Broncos6482]

That's all great, but you're dealing with a community that is increasingly more fearful of these events happening and as a result panics when faced with law enforcement, much like law enforcement seems to be panicking in these scenarios. It's a situation that needs to be repaired on both sides.

Now that I completely agree with.

 

[Broncos6482]

Odds are. Not good enough. When there ARE bad cops, they have to be held accountable. But they're usually not. Again, the threshold for prosecuting a cop is incredibly high. Those bad apples spoil the public's perception of ALL cops, which is not a good thing.

Well I said odds are, but really the only situation I can think of is that guy in Miami that was shot while on the ground with his hands up. But if that cop isn't fired and charged with something I'll be shocked and join right in with any outrage because that would be a joke.

Other than that, I haven't really heard of any situation where somewhere was shot or killed while completely complying with the police.

 

[chf]

Great post. I think the bottom line is we have some asshole cops and some asshole criminals, and because they like to escalate things, the non-assholes get wound up and put on edge, which makes things more likely to escalate even if neither side wants to.

If we could all treat each other with more respect I believe a lot of this would go away. But instead we've got groups like BLM stirring up the perception that cops are out there targeting black people, and you've got cops that are then targeted like what happened in Dallas, and it just causes more division and more distrust. Then you've got situations like the south side of Chicago where they're calling for more help from the police, but the police don't want to go in there because it's so bad and they worry if they have to shoot someone, even if it's totally justifiable, they'll still be blamed, and you can see what a mess it's become.

You started out awesome, then blamed one side. It's BOTH sides that need to meet in the middle. If those bad apple cops are tried and prosecuted, then that sends the message that there IS justice, and then maybe people don't have to march.

FTR, the protest that was shot up in Dallas was going very well, community AND police attending, and then the shooting started. BLM is saying that police aren't held ACCOUNTABLE when blacks are shot.

And as you've agreed to in this very post, they're sometimes RIGHT about that.

 

[BigKen]

Somehow, somewhere this thread went from Brandon Marshall losing sponsors to bad cops and CD not getting a job..............it absolutely amazes what happens when people get pissed off at each other.

Freedom is not free. Somebody else paid dearly for your freedom and gave up his.

 

[chf]

Well I said odds are, but really the only situation I can think of is that guy in Miami that was shot while on the ground with his hands up. But if that cop isn't fired and charged with something I'll be shocked and join right in with any outrage because that would be a joke.

Other than that, I haven't really heard of any situation where somewhere was shot or killed while completely complying with the police.

But police by definition INTERACT with people who aren't going to comply 'completely.' That's an incredibly low bar to set. Police by definition INTERACT with drunk people, with high people, with mentally ill people, with schizophrenic people, with people who don't speak english very damn well, with people who are just angry.

Giving them carte blanche to escalate and SHOOT those that don't 'completely comply' means essentially that they can shoot most of the people they interact with.

Police BY DEFINITION aren't interacting with the church lady too often.


This Toronto cop got 6 years. Not near long enough for murdering the kid. But at least he went to jail. That's rare.

 

[cdumler7]

Somehow, somewhere this thread went from Brandon Marshall losing sponsors to bad cops and CD not getting a job..............it absolutely amazes what happens when people get pissed off at each other.

Freedom is not free. Somebody else paid dearly for your freedom and gave up his.

I was just commenting to the fact that it is not always that they don't get good candidates but that they continually choose people known for being highly aggressive and having records with short tempers. So then they wonder why they have this problem and well it starts in the hiring process of what they are looking for.

Heck we just had this happen around here where a police officer shot an unarmed autistic kid that was mute. The police officer when he pulled him over at least on the video went straight to the window and started yelling at the kid. If you know anything about autism it is that this type of stimulation to the mind can cause the brain to go crazy and the person can begin to make erratic decisions. If the police officer had just gone calmly up to the window possibly this does not happen. This police officer had been written up on quite a few occasions for aggressive behavior when pulling people over. He also had a record before being hired for assaults. So again maybe part of the solution is fixing the hiring process now to help slowly weed out that type of behavior among police officers. I'm not saying they should be kittens at all times but they can't just go in guns a blazing from the beginning and expect a good outcome.

 

[Broncos6482]

But police by definition INTERACT with people who aren't going to comply 'completely.' That's an incredibly low bar to set. Police by definition INTERACT with drunk people, with high people, with mentally ill people, with schizophrenic people, with people who don't speak english very damn well, with people who are just angry.

Giving them carte blanche to escalate and SHOOT those that don't 'completely comply' means essentially that they can shoot most of the people they interact with.

Police BY DEFINITION aren't interacting with the church lady too often.


This Toronto cop got 6 years. Not near long enough for murdering the kid. But at least he went to jail. That's rare.

Hold on a second. I never said anything about giving police carte blanche to shoot anyone that doesn't completely comply. Obviously that's crazy. I'm saying that citizens have a responsibility to comply with police.
Likewise, police have a responsibility be respectful and work to de-escalate any situation they're involved in.

 

[SonnyCID]

Well I said odds are, but really the only situation I can think of is that guy in Miami that was shot while on the ground with his hands up. But if that cop isn't fired and charged with something I'll be shocked and join right in with any outrage because that would be a joke.

Other than that, I haven't really heard of any situation where somewhere was shot or killed while completely complying with the police.

A few years back there was an old deaf Indian guy that used hang out in Pioneer Square and whittle little totems to sell to tourists. He was sort of a landmark in the area. A police rolled up on him, as he was walking down the street whittling. The cop told him to drop his knife, but since he was hard of hearing, he just stood there. With only about 3-4 seconds from the first warning, the officer shot him 3 times-dead.

The killing was ruled unjustified by city council, but no criminal charges were brought forward and the officer resigned from SPD.

 

[Broncos6482]

You started out awesome, then blamed one side. It's BOTH sides that need to meet in the middle. If those bad apple cops are tried and prosecuted, then that sends the message that there IS justice, and then maybe people don't have to march.

FTR, the protest that was shot up in Dallas was going very well, community AND police attending, and then the shooting started. BLM is saying that police aren't held ACCOUNTABLE when blacks are shot.

And as you've agreed to in this very post, they're sometimes RIGHT about that.

My mistake, that wasn't my intention at all. Of course the bad cops should be tried and prosecuted, and I agree that doesn't happen enough. That is definitely a problem.

If that was what BLM focused on I would have no problem with their message, however they are often making things worse by spreading lies and false narratives, like Michael Brown and Ferguson or rioting and burning buildings in Milwaukee.

 

[Broncos6482]

A few years back there was an old deaf Indian guy that used hang out in Pioneer Square and whittle little totems to sell to tourists. He was sort of a landmark in the area. A police rolled up on him, as he was walking down the street whittling. The cop told him to drop his knife, but since he was hard of hearing, he just stood there. With only about 3-4 seconds from the first warning, the officer shot him 3 times-dead.

The killing was ruled unjustified by city council, but no criminal charges were brought forward and the officer resigned from SPD.

That's awful.

 

[chf]

Hold on a second. I never said anything about giving police carte blanche to shoot anyone that doesn't completely comply. Obviously that's crazy. I'm saying that citizens have a responsibility to comply with police.
Likewise, police have a responsibility be respectful and work to de-escalate any situation they're involved in.

Agreed.

 

[chf]

My mistake, that wasn't my intention at all. Of course the bad cops should be tried and prosecuted, and I agree that doesn't happen enough. That is definitely a problem.

If that was what BLM focused on I would have no problem with their message, however they are often making things worse by spreading lies and false narratives, like Michael Brown and Ferguson or rioting and burning buildings in Milwaukee.

Fair enough. But again, there's lots of false narratives that get told. There's plenty of examples in this very thread.

But I'm encouraged that people who seem to be in opposition can find common ground to agree.

 

[sonnyblack65]

Or the two Las Vegas cops killed while eating lunch, the cop killed in Maryland during a routine traffic stop when the prep had a shotgun positioned in the driver's door to kill as he popped the door open. Criminals have long ago declared war on the police.

Yeah we can go on and on, but thier lives don't matter. Just these fucking criminals because of skin tone

 

[sonnyblack65]

There are many veterans that have come out in support of Kaep's right to protest. Sure, there are those that oppose as well. That's all part of the freedom that this country allows.

Yeah those Veterans are from WW2 old , dementia and alzheimers

 

[sonnyblack65]

It's a different issue. Nobody condones killing the police, this discussion is about deaths of unarmed suspects, predominantly people of color. SUSPECTS; they're not CRIMINALS until the courts decide so. Police are not judge and jury (and executioner).

True predominantly white. If a white criminal, junkie, suspect, kkk etc gets killed I could give a rat's ass and will sleep better at night. Bottom line is don't put yourself in a situation, and none of this will happen. If I walk through say Compton at 3am, chances are I am going to get jacked. About 10 years ago in Providence they apprehended a suspect who stabbed an 82 yr old woman on the streets for money. He pulled the cop's halster ans shot him right in the face. He had no weapon on him? Yet he escapes and when finally caught scuffles with the State Police who ruff him up. His family and protesters are on TV saying that the police didn't need to use force. Huh, a cop with 3 young kids at home just lost thei father, please give me a fucking break

 

[sonnyblack65]

I've known some cops too. Yep, humans just like all of us (that's the point), and they're required BY LAW to respond to all situations where they're needed. Domestic calls are the situations most likely to end up with a dead cop. They HAVE to respond to those. They HAVE to enter the home, KNOWING that there's a 50 % chance (or better) that there's a gun in the home.

So while a soldier's ROE would tell them NOT to do something stupid, we tell our cops they MUST do stupid stuff.

So is it any wonder that cops are strung way too tight in America? That they shoot sometimes when they don't have to? Nope. That's why the best police forces use special training to TEACH cops about de-escalation.

As for the second to last sentence, c'mon now. Don't bullshvt. Feel free to read up on total institutions if you like. Police, military, prison guards, religious cults. They all ATTRACT certain types of individuals. People who LIKE to hold power over other people. This is pretty basic stuff. All of these organizations try to screen out people with personalities like this. Because with a gun and a badge they just make horrible employees.

I'd say about 20$ of the bouncers I worked with were these types of guys - they LIKED conflict, they LIKED fighting. It was a GOOD night if they got to fight.

I bounced for two years in the biggest college bar in NA,and never threw a punch. Why? Because I was 'good cop.' Just agree with people and they do what you want them to do... easy. 'Yep, I know it's not fair you've got a table full of drinks still, but it's closing time, and i need you to move to the door. If it was up to me, I'd let you sit and finish all of them. Rules man, rules...'

Now it's damn easy to stir up a redneck with 14 Budweisers in him. And those 20% would do that. Hard to weed them out because they can claim the redneck started it, AND because there's a code of keeping your mouth shut about your co-workers. (that sounds familiar).

Is the % as high with the cops? Dunno. Like I say, most places that hire cops have psych evaluations to weed out those guys. So I could see it being less. But how many cops are there in the US? So even if the number is 10%, that's a LOT of cops who get off on power.

Now having written that wall of text, you'd still have a LOT of shootings just because cops are scared shvtless (fight or flight response) regularly.

I wouldn't want to be a cop.

All good points CHF you never threw a punch and were probably respected and were respected back. Same with cops , most never discharged their firearms. Try dealing with domestics, kids that are starving while the parents are shooting up heroin, pull somebody over and they start talking shit. They start using the 'profiling card" " why;d I get pulled over officer" bs Just obey, hand over reg, license and answer questions respectfully and more than not, you will just get a warning