Has Seattle Jumped the Shark?

[Iggloo]

Bullshit.

Really? So other than the Bills, name some names.

 

[Kernz]

To wit: Have the Seattle Seahawks jumped the shark?

Has Seattle jumped the shark?

To early to tell. Waaay to early.

They kept certain players, others have left to FA as usual, and the draft is coming up.

McCloughan is gone (to Washington) but they still have PCJC and their scouts.

Hopefully they will do good drafting in a couple weeks.

 

[SonnyCID]

Really? So other than the Bills, name some names.

Cowboys, Niners, Pats, Packers. All of them remained contenters after b2bs. Most of them even won more titles. Broncos were the only ones to "drop off CONSIDERABLY", but they also lost their franchise QB after the b2b.

 

[chf]

Richest owner but there is this thing called the cap so not sure that matters?
What does matter is why did fans have to help fund the new stadium?

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, all the OFF THE FIELD stuff is first class. And it is. Because the owner has more money than God.

And yes, he could have paid for the stadium with money he found in his couch cushions, but he didn't, because like all ultra-rich guys, he has the power to threaten to take his ball and go home.

That worked for Allen, not so much for Mr. Coffee and the now Oklahoma City Sonics.

 

[chf]

Kinda curious why he wouldn't pay the whole freight himself?

For the same reason Jerry Jones didn't? Because he didn't have to.

 

[chf]

I'm no midget.....

But you do reach orgasm fantasizing about Seattle failing. So there is that.

 

[mcnabb7542]

Here is the plus side Hawks fans if the "wheel has come off";

All the bandwagon fans will jump ship and you can have your team back!

 

[JMR]

Some false premises in the OP and also rival fans naturally will be motivated to believe a competitor is on the decline.

The way of the NFL is pretty clear: the teams with the best QBs typically maintain contender status from year to year. I don't care if you think Luck is better than Wilson, but you have to at least concede now what you didn't want to before: Russell Wilson is a top quality QB in the league. And he just turned 27.

Lost Mebane (the oldest starter on defense last year) and Irvin, but also re-signed the younger of the starting DTs and Irvin was probably no better than the 7th best player on defense behind Bennett, Sherman, Thomas, Chancellor, Wagner, and KJ Wright. I would even argue re-signing Lane (which did happen) was more important than bringing Irvin back.

The OL will still be the weakest area of the team, but still plenty of time to make up for the losses of perpetually injured Okung and JR Sweezy -- good run blocker but not much in pass-pro.

I know you *want* to see them fall off because them being really good hurts your team's chances, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, all the OFF THE FIELD stuff is first class. And it is. Because the owner has more money than God.

And yes, he could have paid for the stadium with money he found in his couch cushions, but he didn't, because like all ultra-rich guys, he has the power to threaten to take his ball and go home.

That worked for Allen, not so much for Mr. Coffee and the now Oklahoma City Sonics.

Not sure I follow you. An owner can take his team and leave regardless of whether or not the fans help pay for the stadium. Fans pour their hearts and souls into their teams. Help finance them. Pay outrageous prices in and near the stadium. Then have the owner up and leave if they choose to.
Seattle fans still upset that tge Sonics left.
Just imagine what would happen if Paul Allen decided to leave with his team? Highly unlikely yes, but never say never.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, all the OFF THE FIELD stuff is first class. And it is. Because the owner has more money than God.

And yes, he could have paid for the stadium with money he found in his couch cushions, but he didn't, because like all ultra-rich guys, he has the power to threaten to take his ball and go home.

That worked for Allen, not so much for Mr. Coffee and the now Oklahoma City Sonics.

Not sure I agree with all the OFF THE FIELD stuff is first class? The area has improved but come on first class? Beside what does PA have to do with that? Even if a different owner fully financed that stadium the area would still be in the same today.

 

[Iggloo]

I guess it all depends on how you define considerably.

Cowboys, Niners, Pats, Packers. All of them remained contenters after b2bs. Most of them even won more titles. Broncos were the only ones to "drop off CONSIDERABLY", but they also lost their franchise QB after the b2b.

I will grant you that Cowboys and Niners are good examples. I don't see the Packers as a good example because that's ancient. The Pats have been a strong team for a long time, but they didn't win a ring for a decade after going back to back.

So, yes, it can happen. But there are many examples of teams who are good for a few years dropping off, especially in the free agency era, as their rosters get looted and people go elsewhere to cash in.

 

[chf]

Not sure I follow you. An owner can take his team and leave regardless of whether or not the fans help pay for the stadium. Fans pour their hearts and souls into their teams. Help finance them. Pay outrageous prices in and near the stadium. Then have the owner up and leave if they choose to.
Seattle fans still upset that tge Sonics left.
Just imagine what would happen if Paul Allen decided to leave with his team? Highly unlikely yes, but never say never.

You're preaching to the choir. I read all the excellent investigative journalism done in Dallas over Jones getting most of his money out of taxpayers (if you fly into DFW or rent a car, you're paying for Jerrah's goo-goo-plex.)

So yeah, the economic spinoffs of pro sports stadiums are always oversold.

Ironically, the documentary I did on the minor league hockey team based in Fort Worth included interviews with the Oklahoma City Blazers, who at the time were the ONLY TENNANT in the stadium built there at taxpayer expense. Who ended up there? The Sonics.

Owners hold their cities hostage with the 'stick' of leaving all the time. It's the way it's done nowadays. Just because you've got the one outlier owner, it doesn't change the facts. Would I love to see these billionaires finance their own buildings? You bet. Will they? Nope.

The majority owner of the Calgary Flames (and now all the rest of the Calgary pro sports teams), could build his new downtown stadium without even trying hard. Will he? Nope. At the very least the taxpayers of the province and the city will be kicking in dollars. And like all these deals signed these days, they'll be getting zip for it, no parking, no concessions. Just some blather about spin off dollars and tax revenue.

When they build it, we'll get better concerts in town, I'll give em that.

 

[chf]

Not sure I agree with all the OFF THE FIELD stuff is first class? The area has improved but come on first class? Beside what does PA have to do with that? Even if a different owner fully financed that stadium the area would still be in the same today.

Players look on it as a destination to come play. That wasn't always the case. Yep, first class. Spared no expense. Which bunch of teams have better facilities that would make Seattle's second class?

 

[Rex Racer]

For the same reason Jerry Jones didn't? Because he didn't have to.

Doesn't really answer my question.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

You're preaching to the choir. I read all the excellent investigative journalism done in Dallas over Jones getting most of his money out of taxpayers (if you fly into DFW or rent a car, you're paying for Jerrah's goo-goo-plex.)

So yeah, the economic spinoffs of pro sports stadiums are always oversold.

Ironically, the documentary I did on the minor league hockey team based in Fort Worth included interviews with the Oklahoma City Blazers, who at the time were the ONLY TENNANT in the stadium built there at taxpayer expense. Who ended up there? The Sonics.

Owners hold their cities hostage with the 'stick' of leaving all the time. It's the way it's done nowadays. Just because you've got the one outlier owner, it doesn't change the facts. Would I love to see these billionaires finance their own buildings? You bet. Will they? Nope.

The majority owner of the Calgary Flames (and now all the rest of the Calgary pro sports teams), could build his new downtown stadium without even trying hard. Will he? Nope. At the very least the taxpayers of the province and the city will be kicking in dollars. And like all these deals signed these days, they'll be getting zip for it, no parking, no concessions. Just some blather about spin off dollars and tax revenue.

When they build it, we'll get better concerts in town, I'll give em that.

Build it and they will come. Keeping them is a different story.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Players look on it as a destination to come play. That wasn't always the case. Yep, first class. Spared no expense. Which bunch of teams have better facilities that would make Seattle's second class?

Before we get into this banter we should likely clarify "off field" and destination...
SODO area is mess. Yep, regardless of the Hawks or not there are a lot of new 20 something bars that have helped turned the area around.
The stadium itself is on par at best with stadiums built 14 years ago. Everything like most stadiums are way over priced. Traffic in tge area sucks. They have done a better job with mass transit recently, but again on par at best. It's nothing special. The practice field/HQ is in a beautiful location. Personally, I don't like sitting in the rain watching games. Remarkably many home games somehow avoid the rain typical of winter in the NW.

 

[SonnyCID]

I guess it all depends on how you define considerably.


I will grant you that Cowboys and Niners are good examples. I don't see the Packers as a good example because that's ancient. The Pats have been a strong team for a long time, but they didn't win a ring for a decade after going back to back.

So, yes, it can happen. But there are many examples of teams who are good for a few years dropping off, especially in the free agency era, as their rosters get looted and people go elsewhere to cash in.

You said a considerable drop off. Would you call the what Pats from 2006-2013 considerably worse than they were before? I wouldn't. Same with mid-90s Packers. Both of those teams have remained some of the most consistent teams in their conferences ever since their b2bs.

 

[eaglesnut]

Check your Eagle's roster.

Young and talented.

 

[chf]

Before we get into this banter we should likely clarify "off field" and destination...
SODO area is mess. Yep, regardless of the Hawks or not there are a lot of new 20 something bars that have helped turned the area around.
The stadium itself is on par at best with stadiums built 14 years ago. Everything like most stadiums are way over priced. Traffic in tge area sucks. They have done a better job with mass transit recently, but again on par at best. It's nothing special. The practice field/HQ is in a beautiful location. Personally, I don't like sitting in the rain watching games. Remarkably many home games somehow avoid the rain typical of winter in the NW.

I'm not worried at all (since I don't live there) with the economy or liveability of Seattle. Just talking about the player's perception of the organization. Some of that is concrete (facilities), some is pretty squishy (the dreaded 'culture')

Cuban did this in Dallas too with the Mavericks. Spent every dollar he could making the players feel special. That 'culture' deal again.

I said that the Seahawks were 'first class' with their organization. You seemed to disagree.

From the Kingdome, and threats of relocating to S. California in the middle of the night, to the richest owner in the NFL, who is committed to the area...

The team has raised its game considerably. I'm certainly not saying that Seattle is the only game in town. NE does a great job at those intangibles too. I'd still rank Seattle in the top group. First class.

 

[SonnyCID]

I'm not worried at all (since I don't live there) with the economy or liveability of Seattle. Just talking about the player's perception of the organization. Some of that is concrete (facilities), some is pretty squishy (the dreaded 'culture')

Cuban did this in Dallas too with the Mavericks. Spent every dollar he could making the players feel special. That 'culture' deal again.

I said that the Seahawks were 'first class' with their organization. You seemed to disagree.

From the Kingdome, and threats of relocating to S. California in the middle of the night, to the richest owner in the NFL, who is committed to the area...

The team has raised its game considerably. I'm certainly not saying that Seattle is the only game in town. NE does a great job at those intangibles too. I'd still rank Seattle in the top group. First class.

Exactly. This shouldnt be understated.

You are talking about a guy, who, aside from having more money than god, is as deeply rooted in his team's city as any businessman and philanthropist that owns an american sports team. Just the downtown real estate that he owns is enough reason to sustain his presence in Seattle.

It should also be noted that the Centurylink and Safeco tax money has been paid back to the city.