what the broncos showed the skins

[Darrell Green Fan]

I was just thinking yesterday that this Super Bowl fits your argument in our disagreement Dad. With that said the scoreboard is still heavily tilted in favor of top QBs over middle of the road guys. Sure we CAN win if Kirk settles in at Peyton's current level. But it's awful damn hard. And we don't know that last year was not the new normal for our QB and that level was far better than Manning 2015.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I was just thinking yesterday that this Super Bowl fits your argument in our disagreement Dad. With that said the scoreboard is still heavily tilted in favor of top QBs over middle of the road guys. Sure we CAN win if Kirk settles in at Peyton's current level. But it's awful damn hard. And we don't know that last year was not the new normal for our QB and that level was far better than Manning 2015.

Well even if that is true then why can't Cousins be the next franchise QB? Who is considered the most elite of the current crops of current SB QBs? I believe that just about everyone would say Brady. Where was he drafted? Hmm - 2 rounds lower than Cousins.

This idea that an elite SB winning QB has to be selected in the top 5 picks is just BS. There are numerous ways to find the next SB winning QB. Just ask Brady, Wilson, Warner, Brees, etc. On the flip side ask Ryan Leaf, Vince Young, Vick, Russell, Couch, Shuler, Bradford, etc about their SB experiences.

Let's just sit tight & see how Cousins evolves in the system - it is certainly worth the risk. Nice to see that you have such a bright outlook for the current Redskins QB.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Well even if that is true then why can't Cousins be the next franchise QB? Who is considered the most elite of the current crops of current SB QBs? I believe that just about everyone would say Brady. Where was he drafted? Hmm - 2 rounds lower than Cousins.

This idea that an elite SB winning QB has to be selected in the top 5 picks is just BS. There are numerous ways to find the next SB winning QB. Just ask Brady, Wilson, Warner, Brees, etc. On the flip side ask Ryan Leaf, Vince Young, Vick, Russell, Couch, Shuler, Bradford, etc about their SB experiences.

Let's just sit tight & see how Cousins evolves in the system - it is certainly worth the risk. Nice to see that you have such a bright outlook for the current Redskins QB.

But that's never been my argument. I have been saying the best way is to have long term success is to have a good QB, not a middle of the road guy. Now it's a documented fact that the odds of finding that guy decreases dramatically as you get deeper in the draft, again for every Tom Brady there are 1,000 guys like John Skelton so we need to step away a bit from that argument. But that was another poster's point. My point was you need a good QB, period. And the jury is still out on Kirk being that type of QB. But I tell you what, the odds look better now than they did on October 1st.

But then I remember Nick Foles. And Robert Griffin. And Derek Anderson. And a long list of one year wonders.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

But that's never been my argument. I have been saying the best way is to have long term success is to have a good QB, not a middle of the road guy. Now it's a documented fact that the odds of finding that guy decreases dramatically as you get deeper in the draft, again for every Tom Brady there are 1,000 guys like John Skelton so we need to step away a bit from that argument. But that was another poster's point. My point was you need a good QB, period. And the jury is still out on Kirk being that type of QB. But I tell you what, the odds look better now than they did on October 1st.

But then I remember Nick Foles. And Robert Griffin. And Derek Anderson. And a long list of one year wonders.

Disagree. Go back & review the list of SB winning QBs. You will find many (perhaps the majority) who were either not 1st round picks or were taken lower in the 1st round & not view as saviors when they were selected. I would actually argue that there are a lot more guys who were drafted very high who never did much overall in the NFL.

Your RG3 argument is interesting since he was taken 2nd overall & viewed as the savior. Let's face it - most QBs don't make it in the NFL regardless of where they are selected. Sure Cousins is not a sure thing, but he certainly looks better than say any QB coming out in this year's draft. The whole thing is a crap shoot & the best bet right now is to bet on Cousins.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Wade has shown some pretty funny humor this year via tweets

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Disagree. Go back & review the list of SB winning QBs. You will find many (perhaps the majority) who were either not 1st round picks or were taken lower in the 1st round & not view as saviors when they were selected. I would actually argue that there are a lot more guys who were drafted very high who never did much overall in the NFL.

Your RG3 argument is interesting since he was taken 2nd overall & viewed as the savior. Let's face it - most QBs don't make it in the NFL regardless of where they are selected. Sure Cousins is not a sure thing, but he certainly looks better than say any QB coming out in this year's draft. The whole thing is a crap shoot & the best bet right now is to bet on Cousins.

I did this exercise a few times. While there is no doubt the miss rate on first round QBs is very high the miss on 6th round QBs is off the charts. That's why the Tom Brady argument is getting old. It's like arguing that you should not wear a seat belt because of some obscure story about a guy flinging out to safety as the car hit a wall and exploded. Any team drafting a QB in the first round regardless of where in the round is absolutely drafting that player to be their franchise QB.

First round QBs (Brees was the first pick of round 2 so he fits my argument more than yours) have been overwhelmingly represented more often than late rounders. In fact according to this link 54% of all winning QBs were taken in the first round, and again Brees isn't counting and he was only a pick away. Now it's 3 years old and since then Brady, Wilson and Peyton have won but again the odds clearly favor a first round pick over one taken in the 4th round or later. It's not even close.

THE NUMBERS BEHIND SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS

 

[Sharkinva]

Look guys, I agree the desired result is to have a franchise QB.

What I dont agree with is the concept that Cousins is mediocre. First off the term is synonymous with below average and undesired. So for those screaming, well he is just mediocre and hoping we would go in another direction... just man up and say so.

And my other point is simply this.... we have spent 15 years and a ridiculous amount of resources chasing the franchise QB dragon. If Cousins were a 4th year QB with a career 91.3 QB rating, and had just completed a season where he threw for 29 TDs and 4100 yards... most would have ZERO issue calling him a franchise QB IF he had been drafted in the first round.

So I seriously question if the real hangup is... well he just isnt exciting enough for some. IF he levels off at average, the team is better off than we would be with any of the place holders who have been bandied around. Its been pointed out numerous times that even paying him market value as a starter likely wont cause the team to plummet into the depths of cap hell.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Here is a better link. I went back to 1990 because it's tedious and I'll go blind if I went any further. I charted all SB starters as well as SB winners, updated to reflect the last 2 Super Bowls. If you take away Tom Brady the numbers aren't even close.

First round
Starters: 27
Winners: 14

Second round:

Starters: 4
Winners: 1

Third Round
Starters: 6
Winners: 3

Rounds 4+
Starters: 15 (Brady accounted for 6)
Winners: 8 (Again Brady got half of them)

DraftHistory.com

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Look guys, I agree the desired result is to have a franchise QB.

What I dont agree with is the concept that Cousins is mediocre. First off the term is synonymous with below average and undesired. So for those screaming, well he is just mediocre and hoping we would go in another direction... just man up and say so.

And my other point is simply this.... we have spent 15 years and a ridiculous amount of resources chasing the franchise QB dragon. If Cousins were a 4th year QB with a career 91.3 QB rating, and had just completed a season where he threw for 29 TDs and 4100 yards... most would have ZERO issue calling him a franchise QB IF he had been drafted in the first round.

So I seriously question if the real hangup is... well he just isnt exciting enough for some. IF he levels off at average, the team is better off than we would be with any of the place holders who have been bandied around. Its been pointed out numerous times that even paying him market value as a starter likely wont cause the team to plummet into the depths of cap hell.

You may be right about expectation based on his draft spot. But it's not just that he was a later round pick, it's that he's only done it for like 8 games in 4 years.

 

[Sharkinva]

You may be right about expectation based on his draft spot. But it's not just that he was a later round pick, it's that he's only done it for like 8 games in 4 years.

Oh believe me i get that. BUt where is the litmus point. For three years the rub on Cousins would be, he would be a franchise QB IF he could just cut down on the turn overs. Well now he did it... but the complaint was.. yea but it was only for half a season. I just get the feeling that for those who want a different type of QB... I will simply call them the new breed QB's.... Short of coming out and throwing 40 TD to 5 INTs and leading the team deep into the playoffs... Cousins will never be enough.

 

[ehb5]

How exactly am I wrong? Do you see Cam as accurate? Do you see him throwing timing patterns and reading defenses well?

Yes.

 

[ehb5]

Well even if that is true then why can't Cousins be the next franchise QB? Who is considered the most elite of the current crops of current SB QBs? I believe that just about everyone would say Brady. Where was he drafted? Hmm - 2 rounds lower than Cousins.

This idea that an elite SB winning QB has to be selected in the top 5 picks is just BS. There are numerous ways to find the next SB winning QB. Just ask Brady, Wilson, Warner, Brees, etc. On the flip side ask Ryan Leaf, Vince Young, Vick, Russell, Couch, Shuler, Bradford, etc about their SB experiences.

Let's just sit tight & see how Cousins evolves in the system - it is certainly worth the risk. Nice to see that you have such a bright outlook for the current Redskins QB.

Has anybody EVER said that though?

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Oh believe me i get that. BUt where is the litmus point. For three years the rub on Cousins would be, he would be a franchise QB IF he could just cut down on the turn overs. Well now he did it... but the complaint was.. yea but it was only for half a season. I just get the feeling that for those who want a different type of QB... I will simply call them the new breed QB's.... Short of coming out and throwing 40 TD to 5 INTs and leading the team deep into the playoffs... Cousins will never be enough.

His turnovers were his biggest problem but hardly the only one. As recently as 1/3 of the way into this year he was still missing open receivers, something he did in college as well. He also failed in several late game drives in the past. For those reasons as well as the turnovers I questioned if he would ever be a top QB. Now obviously he turned that around and I'm totally on board signing him to a big deal. But the questions remain.

 

[ehb5]

Look guys, I agree the desired result is to have a franchise QB.

What I dont agree with is the concept that Cousins is mediocre. First off the term is synonymous with below average and undesired. So for those screaming, well he is just mediocre and hoping we would go in another direction... just man up and say so.

And my other point is simply this.... we have spent 15 years and a ridiculous amount of resources chasing the franchise QB dragon. If Cousins were a 4th year QB with a career 91.3 QB rating, and had just completed a season where he threw for 29 TDs and 4100 yards... most would have ZERO issue calling him a franchise QB IF he had been drafted in the first round.

So I seriously question if the real hangup is... well he just isnt exciting enough for some. IF he levels off at average, the team is better off than we would be with any of the place holders who have been bandied around. Its been pointed out numerous times that even paying him market value as a starter likely wont cause the team to plummet into the depths of cap hell.

Mediocre means average. Dear god you are defensive of that guy. Are you related to him?

 

[ehb5]

Oh believe me i get that. BUt where is the litmus point. For three years the rub on Cousins would be, he would be a franchise QB IF he could just cut down on the turn overs. Well now he did it... but the complaint was.. yea but it was only for half a season. I just get the feeling that for those who want a different type of QB... I will simply call them the new breed QB's.... Short of coming out and throwing 40 TD to 5 INTs and leading the team deep into the playoffs... Cousins will never be enough.

Yea you're right the fact that it was only 8 games isn't relevant. I'm a hater. Not just being realistic.

 

[ehb5]

What's mind boggling is that to say kirk cousins is a perfect qb would be an idiotic thing. Yet the people who mention both the good things and the bad things he's done are considered haters. Shark is like the Republican who claims fox news is the balanced news source and that people who actually are fair in their reporting are just the crazy liberal media. He's so far to one side he can't tell where the middle actually is.

 

[Sharkinva]

Mediocre means average. Dear god you are defensive of that guy. Are you related to him?

me·di·o·cre
ˌmēdēˈōkər/
adjective
adjective: mediocre

1. of only moderate quality; not very good.
   "a mediocre actor"
   synonyms: ordinary, average, middling, middle-of-the-road, uninspired,undistinguished, indifferent, unexceptional, unexciting, unremarkable, run-of-the-mill, pedestrian, prosaic, lackluster, forgettable, amateur,amateurish; More

 

[Sharkinva]

Yea you're right the fact that it was only 8 games isn't relevant. I'm a hater. Not just being realistic.

We finally agree on something.

 

[ehb5]

me·di·o·cre
ˌmēdēˈōkər/
adjective
adjective: mediocre

1. of only moderate quality; not very good.
   "a mediocre actor"
   synonyms: ordinary, average, middling, middle-of-the-road, uninspired,undistinguished, indifferent, unexceptional, unexciting, unremarkable, run-of-the-mill, pedestrian, prosaic, lackluster, forgettable, amateur,amateurish; More

Dude average is literally one of the synonyms written there. Thank you for proving my point.

 

[ehb5]

We finally agree on something.

And you're a conspiracy theorist.