what to do with murphy ?

[j_y19]

b/c in my opinion he doesn't fit our defense. Preston Smith is clearly better than him with less playing time. you are speculating that we use the draft pick we get from Murphy on an OLB.

Here you go again with these absolute statements. preston is not clearly better than him. He is a better pass rusher and that it. Murphy is better in the run game and setting the edge. Is that not important? Oh, and Murphy also plays STs.

 

[gkekoa]

Trent Murphy has started 22 games and been active for 31 out of 32 in his 2 year career.

Let us see how the typical third rounder looks after 4 years...I go third rounder because you want a third or fourth for him. So we will look at the 2012 draft...

Starters- Dwayne Allen (42), Trumaine Johnson (33), Ronnie Hillman (14), Bryan Anger (K), Olivier Vernon (46), Russell Wilson (64), Brandon Brooks (44), Demario Davis (51), Tyrone Crawford (31), TY Hilton (41 starts),

Backups- Josh Leribeus (12 starts), Donald Stephenson (21 starts), Jamell Fleming (4), Mohamed Sanu (34), Sean Spence (active 31 games, start 13), John Hughes (10 starts), Nick Foles (35 starts), Akiem Hicks (2 teams), Brandon Thompson (7 starts), Jayron Hosley (15 starts), Tony Bergstrom (4 starts)

Still got a job- TJ Graham (3 teams), Mike Martin (5 starts, inactive a few), Bernard Pierce (2 teams, 3 starts), Dwight Bentley (active 20 games),

Grocery bagger- Josh Robinson (active 5 games), Devier Posey (active 26), Brandon Taylor (active 4), Michael Egnew (active 18), Brandon Hardin (0 anything), Jake Bequette ( active 8 games), Lamar Holmes ( don't actually know what happened to him),


Your typical third round pick will have fewer starts in four years as Murphy has in two. As a matter of fact, only 10 of these third rounders had more starts in four years. There are maybe five guys that I would want more than Murphy. 7 of these guys don't even play football anymore. Unlike your dream world where every third round pick is a super star, about 30% are starters after four years, about 30% are back ups, and the others are not worth mentioning after four years.

 

[gkekoa]

Time for fourth rounders...

Starters- Lamar Miller (48 starts), Ben Jones (43), Travis Benjamin (21), Kirk Cousins (25), Nigel Bradham (38), Bobby Maasie (46), Coty Sensabaugh (27), Jared Crick (32), Mike Daniels (33),

Back ups- Chris Givens (31 starts on 2 teams), Gimo Gradkowski (17 starts on 2 teams), Ladarius Green (26), Kyle Wilber (15), Jaye Howard (24), Jarius Wright (14 starts), Keenan Robinson (21), Ron Brooks (3), Rhett Ellison (35),

Lucky to have a job- Omar Bolden (ST), Robert Turbin (2 teams, 3 starts), Joe Looney (2 teams, 10 starts), Brandon Boykin (7 starts),

Toll Booth Attendent- Frank Alexander (backup before drugs and injuries), Joe Adams (9 active), Devon Wylie (8 active), Phillip Blake (0), Alameda Taamu (21 active), Evan Rodriguez (3 teams, active 20 games), Orson Charles (29 active), James Michael Johnson (3 teams this year), Keshawn Martin (10 starts), Nick Toon (5 starts), Ronnell Lewis (8 active), Adrien Robinson (18 active), Miles Burris (no idea where he went), Christian Thompson (7 active), Brandon Mosley (22 active), Jerron McMillian (28 active), Greg Child's (0), Matt Johnson (0)


This is what people don't understand. There is a very high rate of failure in the draft. Yes, people hit occasionally but mostly, there are just people. 12 of these fourth rounders have started more games than Murphy but I would only take five or six over him. There were 41 taken in the fourth...9 are starters (22%), 9 are backups (22%), 5 are barely in the league (12%), and 18 are out of the league (44%).

There is a 100% chance that the worst Trent Murphy ever is, is a quality backup. How about we continue to let him improve and see if he can't beat out the others at OLB because he has earned that.

 

[j_y19]

Time for fourth rounders...

Starters- Lamar Miller (48 starts), Ben Jones (43), Travis Benjamin (21), Kirk Cousins (25), Nigel Bradham (38), Bobby Maasie (46), Coty Sensabaugh (27), Jared Crick (32), Mike Daniels (33),

Back ups- Chris Givens (31 starts on 2 teams), Gimo Gradkowski (17 starts on 2 teams), Ladarius Green (26), Kyle Wilber (15), Jaye Howard (24), Jarius Wright (14 starts), Keenan Robinson (21), Ron Brooks (3), Rhett Ellison (35),

Lucky to have a job- Omar Bolden (ST), Robert Turbin (2 teams, 3 starts), Joe Looney (2 teams, 10 starts), Brandon Boykin (7 starts),

Toll Booth Attendent- Frank Alexander (backup before drugs and injuries), Joe Adams (9 active), Devon Wylie (8 active), Phillip Blake (0), Alameda Taamu (21 active), Evan Rodriguez (3 teams, active 20 games), Orson Charles (29 active), James Michael Johnson (3 teams this year), Keshawn Martin (10 starts), Nick Toon (5 starts), Ronnell Lewis (8 active), Adrien Robinson (18 active), Miles Burris (no idea where he went), Christian Thompson (7 active), Brandon Mosley (22 active), Jerron McMillian (28 active), Greg Child's (0), Matt Johnson (0)


This is what people don't understand. There is a very high rate of failure in the draft. Yes, people hit occasionally but mostly, there are just people. 12 of these fourth rounders have started more games than Murphy but I would only take five or six over him. There were 41 taken in the fourth...9 are starters (22%), 9 are backups (22%), 5 are barely in the league (12%), and 18 are out of the league (44%).

There is a 100% chance that the worst Trent Murphy ever is, is a quality backup. How about we continue to let him improve and see if he can't beat out the others at OLB because he has earned that.

GK, thanks for putting a dose of reality into this debate. I just don't understand this desire by some to take a productive player like Murphy, albeit limited so far, and trade him for picks that will most likely not make it in this league long term. No team ever fields a team with all pros at every position but the good ones have a team full of contributors just like murphy. Murphy fills a need and has skills. He has just finished his second year and showed some improvement. Yeah, let's dump him for a couple future grocery baggers.

 

[gkekoa]

Yeah...every time I post true and verifiable facts, the opposition shuts up and doesn't respond to it.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Trades exist on message boards, they rarely exist in the real world of the NFL. And they sure don't exist with players like Trent Murphy very often.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Yeah...every time I post true and verifiable facts, the opposition shuts up and doesn't respond to it.

You mean like your claim that Murphy is better than Smith?

 

[j_y19]

You mean like your claim that Murphy is better than Smith?

He is better than Smith.......against the run.

 

[gkekoa]

You mean like your claim that Murphy is better than Smith?

Is that my claim? Have you ever read those actual words? What I said is the coaches feel he is better because he was the starter most of the year and got more playing time. That is TRUE evidence. Statistics alone do not tell the whole story.

Murphy had his second year and Smith just finished his first. There is no telling who will end up better but it would be wise to wait and see while they are on this team under their rookie contracts.

 

[Breed]

b/c in my opinion he doesn't fit our defense. Preston Smith is clearly better than him with less playing time. you are speculating that we use the draft pick we get from Murphy on an OLB.

What about Murphy doesn't fit the Skins defense? The 672 defensive snaps/sixth most on the team that he played. And the 3rd most ST snaps.with 219 seem to disagree with your opinion. You don't trade players like that away just cuz, At present Murphy is cheap and he's contributing. Smith is a better pass rusher it would seem. Do tell though, how many defensive and ST snaps did Smith get last year?

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Is that my claim? Have you ever read those actual words? What I said is the coaches feel he is better because he was the starter most of the year and got more playing time. That is TRUE evidence. Statistics alone do not tell the whole story.

Murphy had his second year and Smith just finished his first. There is no telling who will end up better but it would be wise to wait and see while they are on this team under their rookie contracts.

Murphy has been starting for one simple reason: he is in his second year and knows the defense. As Smith learned, we all knew he would take time, his number of snaps increased as did his production. If you just measured the amount of good, impact plays per snap between the 2 it's probably not close.

Murphy at times looks likes a bowling ball as he bounces between blockers. He is not a good run defender, he is average. And he is not a good pass rusher. He is a good guy to have for depth but there really isn't much of an argument IMO who is the better player going into next season.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

What about Murphy doesn't fit the Skins defense? The 672 defensive snaps/sixth most on the team that he played. And the 3rd most ST snaps.with 219 seem to disagree with your opinion. You don't trade players like that away just cuz, At present Murphy is cheap and he's contributing. Smith is a better pass rusher it would seem. Do tell though, how many defensive and ST snaps did Smith get last year?

Good pts & probably why we should leave this type of thing to the personnel folks that run the team. Not all players have tons of talent or constantly make the highlight real. Good job in also pointing out more subtle things that also contribute to overall success.

 

[gkekoa]

Murphy has been starting for one simple reason: he is in his second year and knows the defense. As Smith learned, we all knew he would take time, his number of snaps increased as did his production. If you just measured the amount of good, impact plays per snap between the 2 it's probably not close.

Murphy at times looks likes a bowling ball as he bounces between blockers. He is not a good run defender, he is average. And he is not a good pass rusher. He is a good guy to have for depth but there really isn't much of an argument IMO who is the better player going into next season.

Yep...you are right. Discount all true measures and go with...because he is a bowling ball. He is not a good run defender because you say so. He is not a good pass rusher because you say so. He only started because he knew the defense because you say so. Forget actual metrics created by people who do this for a living or the fact that coaches watch every day. Forget that his impact plays, like a safety against GB (awesome play BTW) are few and the runs to his side where we were gashed were plenty.

Forget the fact, you admitted Murphy is good depth, and I have proven the norm for a third or fourth is less than that; yet, some still want to trade him for a third or fourth.

Just so you know, I believe Preston Smith will be better as well next season because I believe he has a better high side. I would like to think he will continue to progress but we have all seen the better athlete get beat out by the hard worker. I don't know PS well enough to think it won't happen here.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Yep...you are right. Discount all true measures and go with...because he is a bowling ball. He is not a good run defender because you say so. He is not a good pass rusher because you say so. He only started because he knew the defense because you say so. Forget actual metrics created by people who do this for a living or the fact that coaches watch every day. Forget that his impact plays, like a safety against GB (awesome play BTW) are few and the runs to his side where we were gashed were plenty.

Forget the fact, you admitted Murphy is good depth, and I have proven the norm for a third or fourth is less than that; yet, some still want to trade him for a third or fourth.

Just so you know, I believe Preston Smith will be better as well next season because I believe he has a better high side. I would like to think he will continue to progress but we have all seen the better athlete get beat out by the hard worker. I don't know PS well enough to think it won't happen here.

Calm down big fella, just offering my opinion which is what this place is for. With that said frankly I don't see how you can argue my points. Murphy, despite leading the nation in sacks (a skill coveted by every single team), was available in the 2nd round for a reason. That tells me what I have seen. His sacks came as coverage sacks, he very rarely blows past the tackle and makes a play on his own.

So let's talk metrics. 6 sacks in 2 full seasons with the Redskins is another clue that he is simply not a good pass rusher. As is his total tackle figures for the year which gives a good indication of run support. That figure is 13. That's right, 13 tackles for an entire season. He had 20 assisted tackles, unfortunately he did not record a single assist in the final 6 games. In the final 7 games of the season he recorded 6 tackles and 0 assists despite starting every one of those games. I think my label of average is being generous. He is a good depth guy and no he should not be traded for a 4th. But he is below average in every category I can find.

Trent Murphy NFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

By the way Smith, not Murphy, had the safety against Green Bay.

 

[deanpet21]

thank you dgfan for the backup. That is what Ive been trying to say to theses guys. If offered a 3rd or 4th rounder for murphy I think the skins take it. What do you thing dgfan?

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Calm down big fella, just offering my opinion which is what this place is for. With that said frankly I don't see how you can argue my points. Murphy, despite leading the nation in sacks (a skill coveted by every single team), was available in the 2nd round for a reason. That tells me what I have seen. His sacks came as coverage sacks, he very rarely blows past the tackle and makes a play on his own. 6 sacks in 2 full seasons here is another clue. As is his total figures for the year, showing run support. That figure is 13. That's right, 13. He had 20 assisted tackles, unfortunately his last assist happened in Game 11.

Trent Murphy NFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

By the way Smith, not Murphy, had the safety against Green Bay.

If you re-read gke's post I believe that he is actually referring to Smith in that comment about the safety (notice that he also mentioned that he was weak against the run).

 

[gkekoa]

thank you dgfan for the backup. That is what Ive been trying to say to theses guys. If offered a 3rd or 4th rounder for murphy I think the skins take it. What do you thing dgfan?

I think they wou
D be laughed out the building.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

thank you dgfan for the backup. That is what Ive been trying to say to theses guys. If offered a 3rd or 4th rounder for murphy I think the skins take it. What do you thing dgfan?

Again - pls leave this type of thing to the Redskins FO. As gke alluded to - we don't have all of the inside info nor do we get to see these guys practice everyday. Murphy serves a valuable role & I don't think most here are qualified to advocate just getting rid of the guy.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

BTW Deanpet - you are kind of advocating the old Snyder/Vinnie philosophy. Pickup or draft a guy. If he doesn't play lights out or constantly make the highlights - trade or get rid of him & go after the next big thing. This doesn't work. Player development needs to be part of the mix & role players are needed every bit as much as star players.

 

[gkekoa]

Calm down big fella, just offering my opinion which is what this place is for. With that said frankly I don't see how you can argue my points. Murphy, despite leading the nation in sacks (a skill coveted by every single team), was available in the 2nd round for a reason. That tells me what I have seen. His sacks came as coverage sacks, he very rarely blows past the tackle and makes a play on his own.

So let's talk metrics. 6 sacks in 2 full seasons with the Redskins is another clue that he is simply not a good pass rusher. As is his total tackle figures for the year which gives a good indication of run support. That figure is 13. That's right, 13 tackles for an entire season. He had 20 assisted tackles, unfortunately he did not record a single assist in the final 6 games. In the final 7 games of the season he recorded 6 tackles and 0 assists despite starting every one of those games. I think my label of average is being generous. He is a good depth guy and no he should not be traded for a 4th. But he is below average in every category I can find.

Trent Murphy NFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

By the way Smith, not Murphy, had the safety against Green Bay.

I didn't say Murphy got the sack against GB. I was referring to PS and assumed you would be intelligent enough to know that. Murphy only played 16 snaps against GB and Ps had a chance to shine. He shined for one play and then was neutralized and brutalized the rest of the game...by a grocery bagger.

Sacks is not a metric...it is simply a statistic. There is no formula for a sack. Playing the run is not about making the tackle yourself.

First two years of their careers:
Michael Strahan- 5.5
Chris Doleman- 3.5
Rickey Jackson-4.5


Here are a few Hall of Famers who had less than Murphy.