skins/giants post game

[gkekoa]

What if best value is a RB....I don't like using high picks on RBs.

To me, there is no value in RB until round 2 at a minimum. The real value at the position is typically round 3 and later.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

The best blocking TE we had on the team prior to injuries was Logan Paulsen. He was an above average blocking tight end with below average hands.

When he made crucial catches, it was because he was wide open because nobody expected Logan Paulsen to be able to actually catch the ball.

Niles Paul was an average blocker last year, and was signed because he became an above average pass catcher last year (with good speed).

Gronkowski is a below average blocker for being such a big man, but it doesn't matter because he's a matchup nightmre with above average hands and athleticism, and Brady gets the ball out so quickly, you don't need to have great tight ends that can also block.

The Pats are not the best example to use, because Belicheck strives for players that are extremely versatile. Edelman was a qb that is very quick twitch, so he becomes the slot wr. Blount is a great blocker, so he can be the blocking tight end for play action purposes, etc.

Reed is a below average blocker who takes boneheaded penalties, with above average atheleticism, tha tis also a bit of a matchup problem. He's faster than LB's and shiftier than slot corners. He needs to be kept, and to solve the problem, GMSM ought to invest more on olinemen in the next draft (which I'm sure he will).

Remember - Paul put on all of that extra muscle last offseason (27 extra lbs of muscle w/ no loss of speed). Unfortunately - we never got to see if it helped him since he suffered that fluke injury in preseason. Who knows - maybe with the extra weight he would be a better blocker.

 

[deanpet21]

gk how is E. Elliot not a 1st round pick? The guy is a franchise back meaning he can do everything run, block, and catch. If Morris and Thompson leave we should look at him if we get a chance. Even if Thompson stays, Elliot should be looked at.

 

[Breed]

Why? Just because our current tight ends can't block doesn't change the issues with Paulson that were pointed out well by chiller.

I'm not trying to diminish a huge win Blaze, just pointing out some obvious issues. I love Jordan too but his constant mistakes, which happen virtually every game, are incredibly frustrating. And it's true that our tight ends are a big factor in our inability to run the ball consistently.

Back to the game I still can't believe we got 2 first downs in the final 4 minutes to drain the clock. Clearly the play of the game was the big one to Reed with about 3 minutes. We punt we lose.

I am so excited at the progress Kirk has made as the year has gone on. My biggest concern wasn't just the turnover, it was his accuracy. Both issues have improved dramatically. He still needs to improve when the play breaks down. But unlike another QB in town he appears to have a pretty good feel in the pocket. He gets away from sacks, he needs to then make plays off the broken play. But that may come with time. Until then I'll just enjoy that perfect bomb to DJax and beautiful touch pass to Thompson and remembering Jason Cambell overthrowing wide open deep balls and Patrick Ramsey missing touch passes.

Chiller eh. You mean the cat who said Gronk was a shitty blocker. And said LP has shitty hands, but makes crucial catches.

A) Paulsen's an above average blocker.
B) He has above average hands.

If anything, he's appears to be starting a habit of fumbling over his last 2 seasons. But shitty hands are not LP's problem.

far as the game.......KC should've had an easy TD to Crowder on the Skins first series if. A) he slides slightly over to the right to avoid an up the gut blitzing LB B) if he or Matt Jones had recognized the blitz sooner. Jones did see it, albeit late as he had already taken a step to this right, but he came back and while his attempt at a block barely slowed the LB down. Had Kirk slid to his right, the LB would've been walled off and run past the lay. Allowing Kirk to set his feet and make a decent throw to a wide open JC.

Kirk should send Rogers-Cromartie a fat ass care package for dropping a gift pick 6 on the Skins 2nd series.

 

[Breed]

This should interest Kerrigan Murphy, Paea, and Hacther naysayers.

Pass Rushers Boosting Washington's Playoff Bid | PFF

Washington seized the top spot in the NFC East with a big win against the Giants on Sunday. A big reason for their victory was the pressure they applied to Eli Manning.

The Redskins recorded a +6.7 pass rush grade as a team in that game, sacking him three times to go with six QB hits. Overall, they pressured Manning on 18-of-54 dropbacks. Although Washington lacks an elite player to push the pocket, their depth enables them to consistently run fresh bodies onto the field. None of their defensive lineman or edge defenders have pass rush grades worse than -0.3. The six defenders that have taken the majority of rush snaps have grades of +3.9 or better. Although they lack the star names, Washington has a good group up front.

Ryan Kerrigan isn’t flashy, but he’s a consistent pass rusher off the edge. His 31 hurries are seventh-most among outside linebackers, and he’s added a further 10 quarterback knockdowns (seven sacks and three hits). Kerrigan’s 41 combined pressures are eighth-most, too. Overall, he has a pass rush grade of 78.5 (+6.9).

Washington opted against re-signing Brian Orakpo this offseason, and in hindsight, that decision looks like the correct one. It’s not that Orakpo is playing poorly, necessarily (he has a 77.6 pass rush grade this season), but 2014 second-round pick Trent Murphy has improved significantly. After recording a -2.1 grade as a rookie pass rusher, he has a 76.1 overall grade this year, having recorded three sacks, three hits, and nine hurries. In fact, Washington invested consecutive second-round picks in edge rushers, adding Preston Smith with the 38th overall pick this April. He’s flashed serious ability as a rookie with three sacks, two hits, and 15 hurries so far this year. Smith is the third of Washington’s outside linebackers with a pass rush grade of 74 or better (74.3).

The highest graded pass-rushing Redskin is on the interior. Jason Hatcher has been terrorizing guards in the NFC East for nearly 10 years now, and he’s having one of his best seasons in 2015. Despite recording a solitary sack, Hatcher has an additional eight hits and 29 hurries. His 85.1 pass rushing grade is ninth-best in the league amongst interior defenders, and he holds the fifth-best pass rush productivity ranking amongst 3-4 defensive ends. Partnering with him, Chris Baker has also contributed as a pass rusher, even if his strength is defending the run. He’s more boom-or-bust, having recorded more QB knockdowns (13) than hurries (12), but his 77.9 rush grade illustrates the impact he can make when opposing teams look to pass.

Finally, the addition of Stephen Paea continues to look like a shrewd move. He’s made plays as a nickel rusher with three sacks, three hits and eight hurries and a 75.9 grade.

Granted, the Giants were missing four of five starters on the offensive line on Sunday, but Washington still had to take advantage. Taking an early lead was crucial, as it forced Manning to be more aggressive downfield, and enabled their pass rushers to crank up the heat. Although they might not have any players traveling to Hawaii come season’s end, Washington has a very strong pass rushing unit—it may end up being the key reason they win the NFC East.

 

[Breed]

Blocking is like tackling. To be good, you need a case of "the want to". You have to want to be a good blocker. If you just half ass it, you won't be any good. Reed doesn't want to be a good blocker. He has all the physical skills, but he has no real desire to stick his body in front of a big ugly. Great for Jordan, not so much for the team.

He's not blocking a big ugly, he's blocking DBs. He need to start A) using his body more B) learn to put his hands inside (chest area) not outside (shoulder area)

A lot of his penalties happen on huge plays for the Skins as well.

 

[Breed]

Best player at every position for week 12 according to PFF. Includes 3 Redskins, 2 present and 1 former.

Quarterback: Matthew Stafford, Lions (+7.3)

As bad as the Eagles were, Stafford made them look worse. It was the kind of display that makes you forget all the bad we’ve seen this season, as he threw for five touchdowns to kick off Thanksgiving’s slate of games.

Running back: Adrian Peterson, Vikings (+3.4)

The Falcons’ run defense has been a point of pride this year, but the way Peterson ran through it nearly made us forget about their past success. He forced nine tackles in a powerful effort.

Fullback: Patrick DiMarco, Falcons (+2.0)

There aren’t many full backs who generate as much movement on contact as DiMarco, a truly brutal lead blocker.

Tight end: Travis Kelce, Chiefs (+3.3)

Other TEs had more yards, but Kelce turned his four receptions into significant plays, and did a nice job with his blocking to edge out the competition.

Wide receivers: Markus Wheaton, Steelers (+4.3) and Calvin Johnson, Lions (+3.9)

You could pick six or seven other guys this week for the receiver spots, and we’d have no complaints—such was the high standard of play in Week 12. But Wheaton, with a 200-yard day, and Johnson, who scored three touchdowns, did just enough to win out.

Tackles: Matt Kalil, Vikings (+4.3) and Marcus Gilbert, Steelers (+5.6)

After a tough 2014, Kalil is rebounding with better play this year, with his effort against the Falcons a high point in that regard. Gilbert was expected to be in for a tough day, but did a great job in pass protection.

Guards: Andrew Norwell, Panthers (+4.9) and T.J. Lang, Packers (+6.4)

Norwell just holds off the more esteemed Josh Sitton and Logan Mankins, with his excellent run blocking being the difference. What a pickup he has proved. Lang, the often overlooked lineman in Green Bay, is having another excellent season, and this was his best grade of the year.

Center: Jason Kelce, Eagles (+3.9)

Too little, too late? Kelce hasn’t hit the heights of his superb 2013 season, but since a poor start to the year, he’s been run blocking as well as any center in the league.


Each week, we put forward a hybrid defense that features two edge rushers (4-3 defensive ends or 3-4 outside linebackers), three players on the “interior” of the defensive line (3-4 defensive ends or defensive tackles), and two linebackers (all inside linebackers and 4-3 outside linebackers).

Defensive interior – ends: J.J. Watt, Texans (+7.6) and Mike Daniels, Packers (+8.4)

Two men on the roster for very different reasons. Watt owes it all to his pass rushing, where he recorded two more sacks, a further six hits, and three additional hurries. Dominant. Daniels had four hurries himself, but his work disrupting the Bears’ running game stood out just as much.

Defensive interior – nose: Damon Harrison, Jets (+4.3)

When you have three first-round picks on the line, it’s easy to forget about the undrafted guy. Harrison is playing so well right now, he’s simply not letting you do that.

Edge rushers: Aaron Lynch, 49ers (+5.1) and Ryan Kerrigan, Redskins (+5.1)

These two just get the nod over the excellent Ziggy Ansah. Kerrigan did more damage rushing the passer, with eight disruptions (including two sacks). Lynch, who had himself nine total disruptions, was a bit more balanced with some strong work in the run game.

Linebackers: Anthony Barr, Vikings (+3.7) and Luke Kuechly, Panthers (+4.5)

Barr gets in over Tahir Whitehead on playing time, but also because he made some big plays that were pivotal in a Vikings win. As for Kuechly, what can be said about him that hasn’t already been said? The best linebacker in the league last year, he’s taken his game to another level that is as good as anything we have ever graded.

Cornerbacks: David Amerson, Raiders (+5.9) and Will Blackmon, Redskins (+4.7)

A crazy day for Blackmon, who may have been beaten for two touchdowns, but had a big pick of his own, as well as breaking up three passes. His day didn’t compare to former Redskin David Amerson. He was thrown at nine times, but allowed just one reception for 5 yards, while intercepting one ball and breaking up four more.

Safeties: Landon Collins, Giants (+3.4) and Kurt Coleman, Panthers (+2.6)

Coleman is proving to be one of the best pickups of the offseason, and added another shrewd interception to his total for the year. Over in Washington, Collins seemed inspired, earning the best grade of his young career.

Kicker: Graham Gano, Panthers

Gano was automatic, with his field goal kicking and kickoffs in supreme form.

Punter: Kevin Huber, Bengals

Only four punts, but he made them count.

Returner: Jeremy Kerley, Jets

Kerley made some nice moves on his punt return

Still not sure we gave Amerson enough time personally.

 

[gkekoa]

Best player at every position for week 12 according to PFF. Includes 3 Redskins, 2 present and 1 former.

Quarterback: Matthew Stafford, Lions (+7.3)

As bad as the Eagles were, Stafford made them look worse. It was the kind of display that makes you forget all the bad we’ve seen this season, as he threw for five touchdowns to kick off Thanksgiving’s slate of games.

Running back: Adrian Peterson, Vikings (+3.4)

The Falcons’ run defense has been a point of pride this year, but the way Peterson ran through it nearly made us forget about their past success. He forced nine tackles in a powerful effort.

Fullback: Patrick DiMarco, Falcons (+2.0)

There aren’t many full backs who generate as much movement on contact as DiMarco, a truly brutal lead blocker.

Tight end: Travis Kelce, Chiefs (+3.3)

Other TEs had more yards, but Kelce turned his four receptions into significant plays, and did a nice job with his blocking to edge out the competition.

Wide receivers: Markus Wheaton, Steelers (+4.3) and Calvin Johnson, Lions (+3.9)

You could pick six or seven other guys this week for the receiver spots, and we’d have no complaints—such was the high standard of play in Week 12. But Wheaton, with a 200-yard day, and Johnson, who scored three touchdowns, did just enough to win out.

Tackles: Matt Kalil, Vikings (+4.3) and Marcus Gilbert, Steelers (+5.6)

After a tough 2014, Kalil is rebounding with better play this year, with his effort against the Falcons a high point in that regard. Gilbert was expected to be in for a tough day, but did a great job in pass protection.

Guards: Andrew Norwell, Panthers (+4.9) and T.J. Lang, Packers (+6.4)

Norwell just holds off the more esteemed Josh Sitton and Logan Mankins, with his excellent run blocking being the difference. What a pickup he has proved. Lang, the often overlooked lineman in Green Bay, is having another excellent season, and this was his best grade of the year.

Center: Jason Kelce, Eagles (+3.9)

Too little, too late? Kelce hasn’t hit the heights of his superb 2013 season, but since a poor start to the year, he’s been run blocking as well as any center in the league.


Each week, we put forward a hybrid defense that features two edge rushers (4-3 defensive ends or 3-4 outside linebackers), three players on the “interior” of the defensive line (3-4 defensive ends or defensive tackles), and two linebackers (all inside linebackers and 4-3 outside linebackers).

Defensive interior – ends: J.J. Watt, Texans (+7.6) and Mike Daniels, Packers (+8.4)

Two men on the roster for very different reasons. Watt owes it all to his pass rushing, where he recorded two more sacks, a further six hits, and three additional hurries. Dominant. Daniels had four hurries himself, but his work disrupting the Bears’ running game stood out just as much.

Defensive interior – nose: Damon Harrison, Jets (+4.3)

When you have three first-round picks on the line, it’s easy to forget about the undrafted guy. Harrison is playing so well right now, he’s simply not letting you do that.

Edge rushers: Aaron Lynch, 49ers (+5.1) and Ryan Kerrigan, Redskins (+5.1)

These two just get the nod over the excellent Ziggy Ansah. Kerrigan did more damage rushing the passer, with eight disruptions (including two sacks). Lynch, who had himself nine total disruptions, was a bit more balanced with some strong work in the run game.

Linebackers: Anthony Barr, Vikings (+3.7) and Luke Kuechly, Panthers (+4.5)

Barr gets in over Tahir Whitehead on playing time, but also because he made some big plays that were pivotal in a Vikings win. As for Kuechly, what can be said about him that hasn’t already been said? The best linebacker in the league last year, he’s taken his game to another level that is as good as anything we have ever graded.

Cornerbacks: David Amerson, Raiders (+5.9) and Will Blackmon, Redskins (+4.7)

A crazy day for Blackmon, who may have been beaten for two touchdowns, but had a big pick of his own, as well as breaking up three passes. His day didn’t compare to former Redskin David Amerson. He was thrown at nine times, but allowed just one reception for 5 yards, while intercepting one ball and breaking up four more.

Safeties: Landon Collins, Giants (+3.4) and Kurt Coleman, Panthers (+2.6)

Coleman is proving to be one of the best pickups of the offseason, and added another shrewd interception to his total for the year. Over in Washington, Collins seemed inspired, earning the best grade of his young career.

Kicker: Graham Gano, Panthers

Gano was automatic, with his field goal kicking and kickoffs in supreme form.

Punter: Kevin Huber, Bengals

Only four punts, but he made them count.

Returner: Jeremy Kerley, Jets

Kerley made some nice moves on his punt return

Still not sure we gave Amerson enough time personally.

2 present and 2 former...Gano and Amerson...you know the young guy we gave up on.

 

[skinsdad62]

i dont buy the RB argument at all . we need a game changer and if zeke is there and he is the BPA we should take him

we took an OG at 5 and that looks to be a good pick . get good football players because good rbs arent a dime a dozen . its a myth

 

[gkekoa]

gk how is E. Elliot not a 1st round pick? The guy is a franchise back meaning he can do everything run, block, and catch. If Morris and Thompson leave we should look at him if we get a chance. Even if Thompson stays, Elliot should be looked at.

Because that is not where value is. Adrian Peterson is as good as they come...he is a 2 down back. He has made the playoffs as often as he has had a losing record. He has one playoff victory. RBs are typically short on shelf life and not worth a big second contract.

Elliot has been a very good RB, great even at the collegiate level, maybe he will be great in the NFL...but...only two of the top ten rushers were drafted in round 1. RB is easily the least important position, or the easiest to fill in the NFL.

Levon Bell has been replaced by DeAngelo Williams...little let down but not much.
LeSean McCoy has been replaced by Karlos Williams a couple times...little difference.
Matt Forte (one of my favorites) was replaced by
Jamal Charles (another favorite) was replaced by Charcandrick West, then Spence....both were arguably better.
Demarco Murray was rush champ last season but a different scheme killed him.
Marshall Lynch has been outplayed and the Seattle offense is much better with Thomas Rawls...and it isn't close.

Elliot may be the BPA when we pick...but he won't be the best value in the first round.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

i dont buy the RB argument at all . we need a game changer and if zeke is there and he is the BPA we should take him

we took an OG at 5 and that looks to be a good pick . get good football players because good rbs arent a dime a dozen . its a myth

Ordinarily I would disagree with you, running backs CAN be found later in the draft. And we've got a couple of pretty good ones. But you are right, none are game changers. You don't need to be an Adrian Peterson to be a game changer, there are several around the league. Maybe it will be our rookie, he does possess the speed Alf does not. But too early to tell. He doesn't seem to have the ability to make people miss to me.

 

[Breed]

Because that is not where value is. Adrian Peterson is as good as they come...he is a 2 down back. He has made the playoffs as often as he has had a losing record. He has one playoff victory. RBs are typically short on shelf life and not worth a big second contract.

Elliot has been a very good RB, great even at the collegiate level, maybe he will be great in the NFL...but...only two of the top ten rushers were drafted in round 1. RB is easily the least important position, or the easiest to fill in the NFL.

Levon Bell has been replaced by DeAngelo Williams...little let down but not much.
LeSean McCoy has been replaced by Karlos Williams a couple times...little difference.
Matt Forte (one of my favorites) was replaced by
Jamal Charles (another favorite) was replaced by Charcandrick West, then Spence....both were arguably better.
Demarco Murray was rush champ last season but a different scheme killed him.
Marshall Lynch has been outplayed and the Seattle offense is much better with Thomas Rawls...and it isn't close.

Elliot may be the BPA when we pick...but he won't be the best value in the first round.

Almost every RB you claim has been easily replaced has put in work for years. Whereas most of the RBs you say are better than the replaced RBs have put in a handful of games in a season. Lets see what the youngsters look like in a couple years. At least one has been hurt already hasn't he? Chip Kelly's thinking he's smarter than everyone else with his dumb ass jacked up Murray. I dig watching Kelly crash n burn with his multiple dumb ass moves. Still, Murray's probably close to done now. When RBs come close to that 400 carry mark things start heading south soon afterward.

RBs have never really lasted, not many anyway, Not like a Walter Payton or Emmitt Smith. RBs that did it all, running, catching, blocking, played all 3 downs for a decade+. People were getting boners over Gurley after his impressive start. Some calling him better than AP even. Looks like he's come all the way back down to earth the last 4 weeks though. I'd like to retain Alf, hell, I think he might have 10-12 years of productive play in him, but I doubtthe Skins do and if they lose him or let him go, whatever. Another RB will be needed cuz Jones and Thompson aren't ready yet for a fully loaded 16 game season. They may never be.

And no, I hope we don't draft a RB in the first round or the 2nd/3rd either. As not only can they be picked up fairly easily in the later rounds. They can also be found in FA like DeAngelo Williams and Chris Johnson were at reasonable rates.

 

[gkekoa]

Breed....that is my point. The shelf life isn't long enough to waste big capital on the position.

 

[Sharkinva]

Guys.. .we will be picking 32nd, I think a first rounder that late on a RB isnt too much to spend.

 

[Breed]

Breed....that is my point. The shelf life isn't long enough to waste big capital on the position.

Word. And I agree.

Guys.. .we will be picking 32nd, I think a first rounder that late on a RB isnt too much to spend.

Right, right.

 

[j_y19]

i dont buy the RB argument at all . we need a game changer and if zeke is there and he is the BPA we should take him

we took an OG at 5 and that looks to be a good pick . get good football players because good rbs arent a dime a dozen . its a myth

Well, this is arguable, but another reason why you don't take a RB in the 1st is their shelf life is relatively short. Even many of the good ones don't last longer than 5-6 years. You can find better value lower in the draft.

 

[Breed]

Quick question, who is this Zeke that's being spoken of?

 

[skinsdad62]

ezekial elliot

 

[SoCalWizFan]

2 present and 2 former...Gano and Amerson...you know the young guy we gave up on.

NP. Redskins are fine at both positions at this time & in the case of Amerson he deserved to be booted - we will see if he keeps things up moving forward. I wish him luck. I have no issues with the decisions to date from SM & feel that he will for the most part make the correct decisions moving forward.

This isn't the same Redskins FO as the previous 15 years!

 

[JonBlaze]

I'm pretty sure you can draft LSU's backup or 3rd string RB in the late rounds and he'll be fine. They seem to have tons of talent every year that doesn't get utilized to their full potential in college.