Zone vs Power blocking scheme: Lions have it right

[gandydancer]

Question:

Who would you swap QBs with right now? Don't say the obvious guys like, Brady and Rodgers.

Big Ben and Rivers would be my two that aren't the obvious choices.

For this season the way it's playing out I'd take RW for his scramble ability with this current scheme. Not a fan otherwise.

 

[gandydancer]

True, but don't teams draft players that are capable of certain things and have abilities specific to the system they want to run? I keep seeing (everywhere) that Lombardi has the offensive line doing something that they can't do, which seems a bit funny to me given the fact that most of them have been taught the techniques and such.

I won't say a man (power) scheme wouldn't be better or saying anyone is wrong, but I don't see that with the guys we have.

Actually not sure I can say this about Mayhew. He drafted Slay to play in Schwartz's zone scheme and he was a man press cover corner in college. It showed in the way he looked under both schemes.

Warford and Waddle were drafted and looked best blocking downhill as opposed to what they ran in college. Both drafted for the oppo scheme than in school.

Well Waddle was UDFA, but you still signed from a zone scheme and looked best in power first year.

So I actually look at Reiff, Warford, and Waddle as better down hill blockers because I've seen them do it with different results.

 

[Old Lion]

I also wanted to say that I like the idea of Stafford running when he can do it smartly. Needs to step up in the pocket and if no one open just tuck it and run. It really makes it difficult for a defense to keep 2 safeties 20 yarsds deep when the QB can run for 10 yards at any time untouched.

 

[lionstop1]

First when I saw the shuttle pass INT, I felt it was the competitive side in him. Then I realized it's the stupid decisions that kill him. Game awareness is not his strong suit. In the red zone is were you attempt that pass. He put the Bears in scoring position instead of taking the sack. This is what you get with Matt. Boneheaded mistakes! Defense did a decent job holding the Bears to FG attempts after a few offensive mistakes. That's against the Bears, Packers put up 7 prolly 90% of the time on those. Not a recipe for success.

Every QB does this though.

 

[gandydancer]

Every QB does this though.

I'm just as blinded as you are Yao with him. I just lean the other way on him. Which truly means both us are wrong on him at times. Not sure who is here?

 

[gandydancer]

I also wanted to say that I like the idea of Stafford running when he can do it smartly. Needs to step up in the pocket and if no one open just tuck it and run. It really makes it difficult for a defense to keep 2 safeties 20 yarsds deep when the QB can run for 10 yards at any time untouched.

A predesigned QB draw does wonders at times. Whether it gets positive yardage or not. Keeps them honest later.

Doubt Jim lets that happen considering he has publicly stated he wasn't happy with him running.

 

[Rollingthndr]

Stafford to me is nothing more than Flacco or Dalton.

Cutler

 

[gandydancer]

Cutler

I separate them because Stafford played with broken collarbone as a rookie and Cutler to me quit on his team during an asswhooping. I'll take Stafford of those two, but yes much of the same QB though.

 

[LionsWhyMe]

Stafford to me is nothing more than Flacco or Dalton.

Completion Percentages in College:
Dan Marino 57.7
Stafford 57.1

QB Rating in College:
Dan Marino 130
Stafford 133

They both had/have gunslinger mentality, but make up for it with quick releases. They both lack mobility and lack a good running game.

He's never getting accurate, never, but in the right situation he has shown he succeeds. That's when he throws less. The run game was just good enough last year to keep the game out of his hands.

Lions aren't built for the run.

 

[LionsWhyMe]

I also wanted to say that I like the idea of Stafford running when he can do it smartly. Needs to step up in the pocket and if no one open just tuck it and run. It really makes it difficult for a defense to keep 2 safeties 20 yards deep when the QB can run for 10 yards at any time untouched.

I definitely hate a QB that wears concrete shoes rather than keeping a defense honest from time to time.

 

[RobBase]

Remember when Stafford ran to set up that fake spike and instead dove into the endzone for the winning TD to beat Dallas? Good times.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Surprisingly, I've picked up on something over the past couple days:

The majority of the fan-base thinks that Lombardi has the offensive line playing out of their ability in the zone blocking system. Further research indicates that this is probably the right call for the team and lack of execution may be from the overall lack of ability from the players.

Travis Swanson lead a zone blocking system at Arkansas during his career and excelled there. His problems may be due to it being his first year as a starter and getting used to the looks of opposing defenses.

Laken Tomlinson also came from a zone blocking scheme and is known for his ability to do both fairly well. His quick lateral movement and frame is what the coaches raved about him coming out of college.

LaAdrian Waddle comes from TTU, which also runs/ran a zone blocking scheme. Waddle was never known as a top OT prospect but had the quick feet and ability to get to the second level of defenders. His problems may be due to his injury or overall regression.

C. Lucas was in a zone system at K. State. Never known as a power blocker but could move well for his massive size. His issue is that he can't do everything well enough.

Manny comes from a zone scheme in Denver- a team that runs it very well. He offers some NFL experience in the system.

Warford played in another zone scheme in Kentucky and known for fitting either the power game or zone blocking. Shows great feet and runs well.

Just FYI.

ATL might be a case study for the quickest OL turnaround...maybe ever...certainly the fastest I've seen.

Kyle Shanahan...OC is a ZBS disciple. Last year, the Falcons had a hodge-podge OL pretty much from week 1 on...that OL had a rookie LT (moved there from RT after Baker was lost for the season on like week 2)...solid LG in Blaylock...RG was decent, C, RT were guys plugging holes. Power blocking OL...possibly the worst OL in the league last year.

Shanny, got rid of 4 starters and replaced them with guys he knew had some experience with the ZBS...they looked bad in camp, but since week 1...maybe the most improved part of the team.

Steelers have also gone to a ZBS...they made it work with the guys on the roster, but it took a couple of seasons to find some consistency.

 

[RobBase]

Just FYI.

ATL might be a case study for the quickest OL turnaround...maybe ever...certainly the fastest I've seen.

Kyle Shanahan...OC is a ZBS disciple. Last year, the Falcons had a hodge-podge OL pretty much from week 1 on...that OL had a rookie LT (moved there from RT after Baker was lost for the season on like week 2)...solid LG in Blaylock...RG was decent, C, RT were guys plugging holes. Power blocking OL...possibly the worst OL in the league last year.

Shanny, got rid of 4 starters and replaced them with guys he knew had some experience with the ZBS...they looked bad in camp, but since week 1...maybe the most improved part of the team.

Steelers have also gone to a ZBS...they made it work with the guys on the roster, but it took a couple of seasons to find some consistency.

Hard to believe RG3 hated Shanny Jr so much. Especially now seeing him in ATL.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Hard to believe RG3 hated Shanny Jr so much. Especially now seeing him in ATL.

In WAS...classic case of square peg, round hole.

What Shanny ran in WAS RG3's rookie year was something they felt they could get through the rookie season with the idea of easing him into what you see in ATL now by yr 2 or 3...they got fired before they could get there.

idk exactly where the disconnect happened with Shanny & RG3, but the feeling I'm getting is RG3's desire to learn and develop into a pro style QB is not there.

 

[gandydancer]

Completion Percentages in College:
Dan Marino 57.7
Stafford 57.1

QB Rating in College:
Dan Marino 130
Stafford 133

They both had/have gunslinger mentality, but make up for it with quick releases. They both lack mobility and lack a good running game.

Lions aren't built for the run.

Why people compare past QBs to Stafford I don't get. Especially guys in the HOF or will end up there.

LMW, then they better build a run game then if they want to win with Stafford. A winning formula was laid out last season.

It wasn't even a dominate run game by no means. We are all seeing reasons why Staffords turnovers were down last season. Coaching IMO had nothing to do with it. I'm Sure there is a correlation between what was prolly his lowest 4th qtr passing att. in his career last season. Just a hunch, so I'm not saying that as factual. Lions could grind out the clock late in games last year.

 

[RobBase]

idk exactly where the disconnect happened with Shanny & RG3, but the feeling I'm getting is RG3's desire to learn and develop into a pro style QB is not there.

Agree. RG3 is the poster boy for today's entitled youth. Dude has been told he's Jesus his whole life, never once faced any adversity, thus, never grew into a man mentally or emotionally.

 

[LionsWhyMe]

Why people compare past QBs to Stafford I don't get. Especially guys in the HOF or will end up there.

Why do people say the Moon is bigger on the horizon rather than over head when it's the same distance from the Earth? Because on the Horizon you have something to compare it too. I was pointing out the obvious and similarities between the both of them regardless of which era their in.

A winning formula was laid out last season.

Shhh... your giving Mayhew some credit with that statement

It wasn't even a dominate run game by no means.

Neither was 2011 when they had a top 5 Offense.

We are all seeing reasons why Stafford's turnovers were down last season.

Stafford had one less turnover in 2011 than last year, but he had 41 TD's then too.

Coaching IMO had nothing to do with it.

Apparently not with Lombardi when the Offensive Line gives up 45 Sacks.

I'm Sure there is a correlation between what was prolly his lowest 4th qtr passing att. in his career last season.

It makes a difference when their leading or in striking distance going into the 4th. Only the 2nd quarter had more passing attempts than the 4th in any of his four full season.

 

[Coach_Ed_LPW]

Surprisingly, I've picked up on something over the past couple days:

The majority of the fan-base thinks that Lombardi has the offensive line playing out of their ability in the zone blocking system. Further research indicates that this is probably the right call for the team and lack of execution may be from the overall lack of ability from the players.

Travis Swanson lead a zone blocking system at Arkansas during his career and excelled there. His problems may be due to it being his first year as a starter and getting used to the looks of opposing defenses.

Laken Tomlinson also came from a zone blocking scheme and is known for his ability to do both fairly well. His quick lateral movement and frame is what the coaches raved about him coming out of college.

LaAdrian Waddle comes from TTU, which also runs/ran a zone blocking scheme. Waddle was never known as a top OT prospect but had the quick feet and ability to get to the second level of defenders. His problems may be due to his injury or overall regression.

C. Lucas was in a zone system at K. State. Never known as a power blocker but could move well for his massive size. His issue is that he can't do everything well enough.

Manny comes from a zone scheme in Denver- a team that runs it very well. He offers some NFL experience in the system.

Warford played in another zone scheme in Kentucky and known for fitting either the power game or zone blocking. Shows great feet and runs well.

I think the question is do we have the back to run behind zone blocking. Typically they are bigger guys with good vision. The see the lane and get down hill. AA doesnt fit that. Joique does IMO but he is at half speed. ZZ does and he looked decent. Currently we have noone.

 

[Old Lion]

I think the question is do we have the back to run behind zone blocking. Typically they are bigger guys with good vision. The see the lane and get down hill. AA doesnt fit that. Joique does IMO but he is at half speed. ZZ does and he looked decent. Currently we have noone.

What holes have there been to run through? There was nothing until Big Larry got back last week and there were still not a lot, but it was better.

I am not buying that its the players not executing. Lombardi made some changes last week in the passing game and it instantly improved them.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

What holes have there been to run through?