Zone vs Power blocking scheme: Lions have it right

[lionstop1]

Surprisingly, I've picked up on something over the past couple days:

The majority of the fan-base thinks that Lombardi has the offensive line playing out of their ability in the zone blocking system. Further research indicates that this is probably the right call for the team and lack of execution may be from the overall lack of ability from the players.

Travis Swanson lead a zone blocking system at Arkansas during his career and excelled there. His problems may be due to it being his first year as a starter and getting used to the looks of opposing defenses.

Laken Tomlinson also came from a zone blocking scheme and is known for his ability to do both fairly well. His quick lateral movement and frame is what the coaches raved about him coming out of college.

LaAdrian Waddle comes from TTU, which also runs/ran a zone blocking scheme. Waddle was never known as a top OT prospect but had the quick feet and ability to get to the second level of defenders. His problems may be due to his injury or overall regression.

C. Lucas was in a zone system at K. State. Never known as a power blocker but could move well for his massive size. His issue is that he can't do everything well enough.

Manny comes from a zone scheme in Denver- a team that runs it very well. He offers some NFL experience in the system.

Warford played in another zone scheme in Kentucky and known for fitting either the power game or zone blocking. Shows great feet and runs well.

 

[gandydancer]

College game is way different. Yao, I don't get involved in QB and DB debates. For good reason, I'm really not aware of the principles of the positions.

So many intangibles involved here. College splits are wider in most offenses, spread especially. Which in zone you block a area. When you spread out the defense it dramatically makes it easier to block. And give the appearance of gaping holes and easier for interior guys to reach second level cleanly. Many of these guys look like top notch athletes playing guys who can't sniff the pros.

In pass pro the huge splits don't mean as much, but a guy really doesn't sustain the blocks long. As soon as it breaks down which is quickly in most cases, the QB scrambles and runs for positive yardage and no sacks given up. Looks good in the stat column. For sacks against.

One of the biggest principles of zone blocking was the cut block. While still legal in college and pros. The illegal chop block came into play at the pro level, in doing so it really took away from the cut block also. Legal yes, frowned upon yes even more.

 

[RobBase]

I don't get involved in QB and DB debates.

 

[gandydancer]

Many kids show that what they do in college does not translate to the next level. Yet some show they can adapt to different skill sets never used in college. Wheter it be special team duties or a TE becoming a blocker.

I feel because they're big enough for power blocking, yet not quite small enough and possess less speed for a zone scheme IMO. At least for the scheme in which Lombardi is using. Now you play every Sunday against guys faster from Saturday's. Getting to certain spots is not easy in zone.

Do I feel they can block in a zone scheme. Quite possibly, they did Sunday with decent success. As you can see Lombardi made some changes within his protections or Washburn did. Power scheme is simplistic, Lombardi keeps adapting to what may work against opponents, it could work. He keeps the same logic he showed from the first five games. It will not with this personnel IMO. As I watched and watched that debacle over and over.

 

[gandydancer]

View attachment 42558

I say Stafford sucks from what little bit I know of QB basics. He lacks many of those. That's easy to see. You start talking the breakdowns of small things I'm out. I sure as hell know I've never tried to debate what a DB should be doing.

Funny that my little knowledge of QBs called Stafford correctly. While you just recently stopped protecting him.

 

[lionstop1]

Stafford doesn't lack the basics, he lacks some of the things you can't really coach. You're looking at a guy that was going to be the top pick of the draft easily and one that if he goes to the right organization, he has a hell of a career.

Staff is smart, tough and has one of the best arms we've seen. He's sporadic with his accuracy, has fair footwork and pocket awareness. Has a quick release and his mechanics have gotten better. Overall, he's very comparable and even better than some of the qbs that have won SBs.

 

[gandydancer]

Stafford doesn't lack the basics, he lacks some of the things you can't really coach. You're looking at a guy that was going to be the top pick of the draft easily and one that if he goes to the right organization, he has a hell of a career.

Staff is smart, tough and has one of the best arms we've seen. He's sporadic with his accuracy, has fair footwork and pocket awareness. Has a quick release and his mechanics have gotten better. Overall, he's very comparable and even better than some of the qbs that have won SBs.

I've already said they can win with Stafford. I don't want to get rid of him. Stated many times he drives me crazy because we he has all the tools. He will just never use them with any consistency. Why he is a mid range QB. My problem has always been him being made out to be something he will never become.

The sooner fans realize he needs a run game and a defense to succeed. The sooner you realize he can have Trent Dilfers ring. I'm not calling him Trent either. Just he will never put this team on his back week in and week out.

I will give you strongest arm we've seen. Best arms come with that accuracy he lacks. Toughness is never in question.

The real fine mechanics... Yao I can't talk about. The basics that I know, he lacks them.

 

[gandydancer]

Stafford to me is nothing more than Flacco or Dalton.

 

[RobBase]

Stafford to me is nothing more than Flacco or Dalton.

That's not too bad in today's NFL. I'm definitely leaning toward wanting to see what a new regime can do with him rather than start over at the QB spot.

 

[broncosmitty]

Stafford to me is nothing more than Flacco or Dalton.

Pretty much.

A SB MVP that looks bad a lot. And another QB with a great receiver who's never won a playoff game.

Eli has had great defenses and better lines. Got him two rings. He can make every throw, has a little bit better touch but makes stupid mistakes just like Staff.

 

[gandydancer]

That's not too bad in today's NFL. I'm definitely leaning toward wanting to see what a new regime can do with him rather than start over at the QB spot.

Correct, I do not want to start over at all. Why I was mentioning Sean Payton and Frank Reich. Sure there is somebody who can be that last chance coach for him. Don't see very much changing, but it may only take a small tweak to get just a little more success from him.

He's never getting accurate, never, but in the right situation he has shown he succeeds. That's when he throws less. The run game was just good enough last year to keep the game out of his hands. Grinding out some first downs late. I can handle him being Flacco and Dalton. Guys who win with a team around them.

 

[lionstop1]

I get where you're coming from Gandy. There's only a handful of "special" QBs though. You state that he's good enough to win with. Doesn't that mean he's a solid QB then? I know I'm a huge Stafford fan but I'm just not convinced that he isn't as good as some of the other guys in the top 10.

 

[lionstop1]

I think some of his accuracy issues come from him throwing the damn ball so hard. Sometimes it gets away from the kid. But....his accuracy is up this year by the numbers.

 

[Old Lion]

I agree with Gandy's assessment with size and speed. I will just add that having experience in something does not necessarily mean being skilled at it or have the ability to do it well. Just that you have done it before.

As far as Stafford, My issue is with decision making. The rest I can live with

 

[lionstop1]

Question:

Who would you swap QBs with right now? Don't say the obvious guys like, Brady and Rodgers.

 

[lionstop1]

I agree with Gandy's assessment with size and speed. I will just add that having experience in something does not necessarily mean being skilled at it or have the ability to do it well. Just that you have done it before.

As far as Stafford, My issue is with decision making. The rest I can live with

True, but don't teams draft players that are capable of certain things and have abilities specific to the system they want to run? I keep seeing (everywhere) that Lombardi has the offensive line doing something that they can't do, which seems a bit funny to me given the fact that most of them have been taught the techniques and such.

I won't say a man (power) scheme wouldn't be better or saying anyone is wrong, but I don't see that with the guys we have.

 

[Old Lion]

True, but don't teams draft players that are capable of certain things and have abilities specific to the system they want to run? I keep seeing (everywhere) that Lombardi has the offensive line doing something that they can't do, which seems a bit funny to me given the fact that most of them have been taught the techniques and such.

I won't say a man (power) scheme wouldn't be better or saying anyone is wrong, but I don't see that with the guys we have.

Well at least they have the rest of the season to figure it out. No pressure of having to make the playoffs will allow them to experiment more.

 

[gandydancer]

Pretty much.

A SB MVP that looks bad a lot. And another QB with a great receiver who's never won a playoff game.

Eli has had great defenses and better lines. Got him two rings. He can make every throw, has a little bit better touch but makes stupid mistakes just like Staff.

First when I saw the shuttle pass INT, I felt it was the competitive side in him. Then I realized it's the stupid decisions that kill him. Game awareness is not his strong suit. In the red zone is were you attempt that pass. He put the Bears in scoring position instead of taking the sack. This is what you get with Matt. Boneheaded mistakes! Defense did a decent job holding the Bears to FG attempts after a few offensive mistakes. That's against the Bears, Packers put up 7 prolly 90% of the time on those. Not a recipe for success.

 

[gandydancer]

I think some of his accuracy issues come from him throwing the damn ball so hard. Sometimes it gets away from the kid. But....his accuracy is up this year by the numbers.

Been a lot of short passes also. This week was the first time. They stretched the field. There reasons why QBs like Bree's and Brady can have games being 32-37. Dink and dunk works for some teams.

On throwing the ball hard, he does. I've seen coaches get him to do other beneficial tweaks. Taking sacks and throwing it away for two. Don't think slowing down his throws will be one.

I'm nervously happy to see them open it up a bit last week. Happy it worked, nervous that with that success Stafford gets back in the radar lock mode with CJ.

I want to see touch more on the screens and passes in the flat. That's a time to not break a receivers fingers. He drives me crazy going vertical, but when he actually steps and plants are his best passes. Like to Moore. Y'all love that sidearm shit. I hate them. He looks best when running two minute or no huddle. IMO he gets in the rhythm and just keeps repeating the same mechanics.

 

[gandydancer]

I get where you're coming from Gandy. There's only a handful of "special" QBs though. You state that he's good enough to win with. Doesn't that mean he's a solid QB then? I know I'm a huge Stafford fan but I'm just not convinced that he isn't as good as some of the other guys in the top 10.

No he's not solid IMO. Take it for exactly as I said it. I feel they can win with him is all.

Yao, I could still be wrong on him, doubt it, but....

He may become a top ten QB by default shortly. Need some to retire first and not have the new crop pass him.