Even Kiem doesnt think he is a OT

[deanpet21]

Should they address in the draft: Absolutely. Coach Jay Gruden and general manager Scot McCloughan both talked about the depth along the line in the upcoming draft. There are intriguing possibilities in the first round if they trade back -- if they want a right tackle, I’d take Ereck Flowers from Miami over Brandon Scherff, who, to me, looks like a solid guard. Nothing wrong with that, but if you want a tackle, my preference would be Flowers. Not perfect, but he’s a tackle. He’s also scheduled to visit Washington. They have shown interest in ex-Division III player Ali Marpet, a guard, as well. He’s a second- or third-round prospect most likely. The Redskins need to build a better line, not just to protect the quarterbacks -- you should know by now more goes into protection than just the line -- but to help the run game. Also, they lack an elite quarterback, so if that’s the case you must: A) Build a fortress and B) Dominate the ground game. Add more talent to this group, let them fight it out and then you could have something.

 

[Sharkinva]

So what if Keim doesnt think he is an OT. I keep hearing in SM we trust... but apparently that is prefaced with.. as long as he does what we think is prudent.

Reality is, we need an OT and at least one OG. I keep hearing you simply cant draft an OG at #5, so we should go for a position that either

a. We dont really need
or
b. Has a player group that is highly over rated this year.

The more I hear people bitch about how we cannot take Scherff, the more I hope Mariota is there and we take him so we can watch yet ANOTHER QB get destroyed by the line we constantly plan C together because no one from the owner, to the GM's to the fan base feels that its worth it to invest in anything higher than a 3rd rounder or later into the offensive line.

Because I would bet my bastard sons left nut that if we take a pass rusher in the first, the same people saying Scherff isnt worth it will be the same guys screaming for a FS or WR in the second round and saying crap like.. .well the majority of starting RT's and OG's are found after round three any way.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

So what if Keim doesnt think he is an OT. I keep hearing in SM we trust... but apparently that is prefaced with.. as long as he does what we think is prudent.

Reality is, we need an OT and at least one OG. I keep hearing you simply cant draft an OG at #5, so we should go for a position that either

a. We dont really need
or
b. Has a player group that is highly over rated this year.

The more I hear people bitch about how we cannot take Scherff, the more I hope Mariota is there and we take him so we can watch yet ANOTHER QB get destroyed by the line we constantly plan C together because no one from the owner, to the GM's to the fan base feels that its worth it to invest in anything higher than a 3rd rounder or later into the offensive line.

Because I would bet my bastard sons left nut that if we take a pass rusher in the first, the same people saying Scherff isnt worth it will be the same guys screaming for a FS or WR in the second round and saying crap like.. .well the majority of starting RT's and OG's are found after round three any way.

So much fail here, you aren't even close to what we've been saying. But I don't have the time, or energy, to go into it again. I'll just say in SM I trust regardless of who they end up selecting.

 

[Sharkinva]

So much fail here, you aren't even close to what we've been saying. But I don't have the time, or energy, to go into it again. I'll just say in SM I trust regardless of who they end up selecting.

I guess we shall see if this statement rings true in about 16.5 days.

And I will say this, I totally expect SM to do a trade down or take the Pass Rusher or WR... But I will simply say that I think Scherff should be the pick. I accept that odds are he wont be.

And Im pretty confident that some of the same people glossing over the O-line pick now will be the ones saying we cant pass on the pass rusher or WR or Safety that "slide" to us in the 2nd round.

 

[redskinsfan]

I guess we shall see if this statement rings true in about 16.5 days.

And I will say this, I totally expect SM to do a trade down or take the Pass Rusher or WR... But I will simply say that I think Scherff should be the pick. I accept that odds are he wont be.

And Im pretty confident that some of the same people glossing over the O-line pick now will be the ones saying we cant pass on the pass rusher or WR or Safety that "slide" to us in the 2nd round.

Shark, dude, can't you admit you're wrong? Scherff isn't an OT, he's a guard. Almost everyone thinks that. Check out Iowajerms in the threat about the ESPN Insider article about who the Redskins should take. He follows Hawkeye football and concedes Scherff is a guard and has a weakness in terms of pass pro. And notice who was noticeably missing from that discussion? Scherff.

Having said that, no one is saying you can't take Scherff. If we had a pick around 10 or so and he was there, he'd probably be the guy we should -- or have -- to take. But taking him at #5 is truly the "sexy" pick and one that's more of a want than a need. That's not to say we don't need a guard -- or two. But we don't need to take a guard that high when we get someone else later (e.g., Laken Tomlinson) to serve our needs for the long term.

Keim isn't some hack reporter. He's a reputable, knowledgeable guy and his analysis makes perfect sense.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I think it's pretty clear by now that the people who want Scherff the most are the only ones here who see him as a tackle when virtually everyone else sees him as a guard due to pass pro issues. It's a good way to justify taking him at 5 I guess, worst case he's an awesome guard according to the belief.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion of course. But I'll take the word of a guy who has watched him play live for 4 years as well as comments from people who get paid for their opinion over a fan who is motivated by want more than logic.

 

[Sharkinva]

Shark, dude, can't you admit you're wrong? Scherff isn't an OT, he's a guard. Almost everyone thinks that. Check out Iowajerms in the threat about the ESPN Insider article about who the Redskins should take. He follows Hawkeye football and concedes Scherff is a guard and has a weakness in terms of pass pro. And notice who was noticeably missing from that discussion? Scherff.

Having said that, no one is saying you can't take Scherff. If we had a pick around 10 or so and he was there, he'd probably be the guy we should -- or have -- to take. But taking him at #5 is truly the "sexy" pick and one that's more of a want than a need. That's not to say we don't need a guard -- or two. But we don't need to take a guard that high when we get someone else later (e.g., Laken Tomlinson) to serve our needs for the long term.

Keim isn't some hack reporter. He's a reputable, knowledgeable guy and his analysis makes perfect sense.

As I have said multiple times, his position will be determined by the team and coaches that take him. The sexy pick is to go after the "playmaker" that every one is screaming for when the less flashy but smarter pick is sitting right there. Even if he does turn out to be a guard, would you rather have a guard that holds the position down for ten years, or a one dimensional pass rusher. Scratch that, I already know you want a trade down because you feel that quantity over quality is the way to go.

Every one says we are rebuilding... you actually need tome premier talent guys at their position to build off of first. Sorry if I dont agree that two or three second tier guys at their respective positions out weighs a top prospect even if he ultimately ends up being a guard.

But like i said.. im officially switching my position.. I hope Mariota is there and we snatch him up.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

As I have said multiple times, his position will be determined by the team and coaches that take him. The sexy pick is to go after the "playmaker" that every one is screaming for when the less flashy but smarter pick is sitting right there. Even if he does turn out to be a guard, would you rather have a guard that holds the position down for ten years, or a one dimensional pass rusher. Scratch that, I already know you want a trade down because you feel that quantity over quality is the way to go.

Every one says we are rebuilding... you actually need tome premier talent guys at their position to build off of first. Sorry if I dont agree that two or three second tier guys at their respective positions out weighs a top prospect even if he ultimately ends up being a guard.

But like i said.. im officially switching my position.. I hope Mariota is there and we snatch him up.

Yeah I posted a few weeks ago that I hope the pick is MM too just to see the shit show. That's about all the fun this team can provide for me these days.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

As I have said multiple times, his position will be determined by the team and coaches that take him. The sexy pick is to go after the "playmaker" that every one is screaming for when the less flashy but smarter pick is sitting right there. Even if he does turn out to be a guard, would you rather have a guard that holds the position down for ten years, or a one dimensional pass rusher. Scratch that, I already know you want a trade down because you feel that quantity over quality is the way to go.

Every one says we are rebuilding... you actually need tome premier talent guys at their position to build off of first. Sorry if I dont agree that two or three second tier guys at their respective positions out weighs a top prospect even if he ultimately ends up being a guard.

But like i said.. im officially switching my position.. I hope Mariota is there and we snatch him up.

What is with all of the continuing over-the-top drama? Are you honestly stating that you hope that the Redskins make a pick that will blow up in their faces just so that you can say "I told you so"? Are you for real?

I hope that this is simply sarcasm on your part. If so - then pretty creative on your part. If not then this is truly sad. I assume that fans root for the Redskins to feel good about the team & not to receive kudos about how "Yep - you were right about that one".

 

[Skin'EmAll]

I just hope we DON'T take Gregory. He's a drug addict and undersized. He's the 2nd coming of Fred Davis behind the wheel unconscious at Tyson's Corner. I think Williams could happen. Not crazy about Fowler because his numbers are garbage in college so there's no need to think he'll do great with tougher competition in the NFL.
I'm neutral on Ray for whatever reason. Not sold on Scherff, although T is a must this year. He's been labelled a gym monster but could not improve on his 22 bench press reps at his pro day.
Mariota WILL be gone...by 5, so maybe we'll trade the 5th and land an OT later on.

 

[redskinsfan]

As I have said multiple times, his position will be determined by the team and coaches that take him. The sexy pick is to go after the "playmaker" that every one is screaming for when the less flashy but smarter pick is sitting right there. Even if he does turn out to be a guard, would you rather have a guard that holds the position down for ten years, or a one dimensional pass rusher. Scratch that, I already know you want a trade down because you feel that quantity over quality is the way to go.

Every one says we are rebuilding... you actually need tome premier talent guys at their position to build off of first. Sorry if I dont agree that two or three second tier guys at their respective positions out weighs a top prospect even if he ultimately ends up being a guard.

But like i said.. im officially switching my position.. I hope Mariota is there and we snatch him up.

First of all, can you concede that Scherff is a guard now? When you finally do, that should answer why we shouldn't pick him at #5. Yes, he could hold down the position for the long term. But ask yourself this (something that I've pointed out umpteen times): wouldn't it be better to trade down and select a guard later (who in fact could be Scherff)? By doing that, we get more picks and get a guard that, although not as good as Scherff, will be plenty good to lock that position for the next several years. By getting more picks, you give McCloughan a shot at maximizing selections of franchise players.

Anything wrong with that?

 

[Sharkinva]

First of all, can you concede that Scherff is a guard now? When you finally do, that should answer why we shouldn't pick him at #5. Yes, he could hold down the position for the long term. But ask yourself this (something that I've pointed out umpteen times): wouldn't it be better to trade down and select a guard later (who in fact could be Scherff)? By doing that, we get more picks and get a guard that, although not as good as Scherff, will be plenty good to lock that position for the next several years. By getting more picks, you give McCloughan a shot at maximizing selections of franchise players.

Anything wrong with that?

First off, by conceding that he is a guard, it plays into the misguided preconception that one simply can not take a guard at #5. So I think you are trying to label him as such to play into the concept that we cant take him that high.

Secondly Im all about quality over quantity. So even if he does eventually end up a guard.. He will likely be the best guard out of this draft. So why settle for the 2nd 3rd or 4th best at a position just so that you can also draft the 2nd 3rd or 9th best at another position. IM not one to go into the store and by Fruity Nibbles if what I really wanted was Fruity Pebbles. IM willing to pay a little more for quality. See you are pressed to get MORE picks, IM more about getting quality players and not so many projects with the picks we have. Im tired of taking the Rambos, Moses and Longs and then wondering why we are constantly drafting players at the same positions over and over again.

 

[redskinsfan]

What is with all of the continuing over-the-top drama? Are you honestly stating that you hope that the Redskins make a pick that will blow up in their faces just so that you can say "I told you so"? Are you for real?

I hope that this is simply sarcasm on your part. If so - then pretty creative on your part. If not then this is truly sad. I assume that fans root for the Redskins to feel good about the team & not to receive kudos about how "Yep - you were right about that one".

Yes, agreed. It's more the if-I-can't-get-what-I-want-

First off, by conceding that he is a guard, it plays into the misguided preconception that one simply can not take a guard at #5. So I think you are trying to label him as such to play into the concept that we cant take him that high.

Secondly Im all about quality over quantity. So even if he does eventually end up a guard.. He will likely be the best guard out of this draft. So why settle for the 2nd 3rd or 4th best at a position just so that you can also draft the 2nd 3rd or 9th best at another position. IM not one to go into the store and by Fruity Nibbles if what I really wanted was Fruity Pebbles. IM willing to pay a little more for quality. See you are pressed to get MORE picks, IM more about getting quality players and not so many projects with the picks we have. Im tired of taking the Rambos, Moses and Longs and then wondering why we are constantly drafting players at the same positions over and over again.

Not drafting an OG at five is called historical precedent, something which is a very good guide for nearly everyone to follow. And I agree that I'd take quality or quantity. But if you're a rebuilding team like us that's got so many holes, you need more quantity without suffering too much in quality. By picking a guard like Scherff at five, you're taking the Ferrari instead of splitting that up and getting a two modest sedans, home improvements, college education, etc for your family. While a car is a necessity in any family, certain types are not. Same with Scerff. He might be the best o-lineman in the draft, but he's the Ferrari here. We can do well by drafting an OT and OG with one of our high picks. And the difference we've got this year is that we have McCloughan calling the shots. That means the years of takings Rambos and others like him will be gone.

Taking Scherff is the "sexy" pick here. How you can't see that is baffling. What you want is the top shelf product when taking a less model will serve your purposes sufficiently and using the extra money you have to shore up other parts of your life.

 

[Sharkinva]

Yes, agreed. It's more the if-I-can't-get-what-I-want-


Not drafting an OG at five is called historical precedent, something which is a very good guide for nearly everyone to follow. And I agree that I'd take quality or quantity. But if you're a rebuilding team like us that's got so many holes, you need more quantity without suffering too much in quality. By picking a guard like Scherff at five, you're taking the Ferrari instead of splitting that up and getting a two modest sedans, home improvements, college education, etc for your family. While a car is a necessity in any family, certain types are not. Same with Scerff. He might be the best o-lineman in the draft, but he's the Ferrari here. We can do well by drafting an OT and OG with one of our high picks. And the difference we've got this year is that we have McCloughan calling the shots. That means the years of takings Rambos and others like him will be gone.

Taking Scherff is the "sexy" pick here. How you can't see that is baffling. What you want is the top shelf product when taking a less model will serve your purposes sufficiently and using the extra money you have to shore up other parts of your life.

Taking the best O-lineman in the draft should NEVER be considered a luxury when your O-line has been considered one of the worst in the league. I realize you have faith in our New GM being able to find better talent from lower rated players. But seriously, when you have a pretty much gift staring you in the face, why make the work harder if you dont need to?? Sure we could trade down, and the O-line players we take MIGHT actually work out just as well. But lets not act like this guy has never missed on a prospect. And as for the rebuilding prospect, dont you think a rebuild goes smoother when you actually have higher quality material to work with. INstead of saying well lets get the best windows we can find, how about actually putting together a solid foundation FIRST?

 

[redskinsfan]

Taking the best O-lineman in the draft should NEVER be considered a luxury when your O-line has been considered one of the worst in the league. I realize you have faith in our New GM being able to find better talent from lower rated players. But seriously, when you have a pretty much gift staring you in the face, why make the work harder if you dont need to?? Sure we could trade down, and the O-line players we take MIGHT actually work out just as well. But lets not act like this guy has never missed on a prospect. And as for the rebuilding prospect, dont you think a rebuild goes smoother when you actually have higher quality material to work with. INstead of saying well lets get the best windows we can find, how about actually putting together a solid foundation FIRST?

Like I said again, taking the top shelf model might be good for other teams, but not for ones like us that has so many needs. Do you really think that if -- and it's an if -- Scherff turns out to be the guard you envision him to be, that he'd be better than if we selected Andrus Peat / Ereck Flowers at OT and someone like Laken Tomlinson / La'El Collins at OG? As much as you'd like to argue that offensive linemen down the draft "might" actually work out, the same could be said for Scherff. The issue is why a team like ours would put all their eggs in one basket when we could get more to fill the o-line and other positions with far better players?

You are basically taking the Ferrari and screwing everything else. If that's not a "sexy" pick, I'm not sure what is.

 

[Sharkinva]

Like I said again, taking the top shelf model might be good for other teams, but not for ones like us that has so many needs. Do you really think that if -- and it's an if -- Scherff turns out to be the guard you envision him to be, that he'd be better than if we selected Andrus Peat / Ereck Flowers at OT and someone like Laken Tomlinson / La'El Collins at OG? As much as you'd like to argue that offensive linemen down the draft "might" actually work out, the same could be said for Scherff. The issue is why a team like ours would put all their eggs in one basket when we could get more to fill the o-line and other positions with far better players?

You are basically taking the Ferrari and screwing everything else. If that's not a "sexy" pick, I'm not sure what is.

And you are basically saying, lets take the lesser rated players and more of them and hope that we hit on 50%. Fact is, if Tomlinson, Collins or any one else you name was as good as Scherff, THEY would be considered a top ten pick. You are talking about guys that your vaunted Pundits have rated as 3rd rounders in some cases. Its fine to draft backups and projects... sadly we actually need starters. And not guys who get the starting role because we dont got dick else to put on the field. You can call it the sexy pick until you are blue in the face, but can you honestly say Scherff wouldnt start over Chester and Likely Compton?? Where as the 3rd rounders you want to take have just as much chance of being a three year project as Moses was... .we dont NEED another Moses. I dont want another Moses. Rebuilding teams need starters, not more projects.

 

[skinsdad62]

first off he is an OT and i dont care how many articles you dig up that say otherwise because the ones i have posted already have been dismissed by you all .

second filling a number of holes with lesser talent means you will field a second rate team .

you fill a hole with a good player that is one less then what you have to deal with later

you can never reach for an o/lineman if your have issues like the skins do on the o/line

really fellas i think this has played out as much as it can

 

[Sharkinva]

first off he is an OT and i dont care how many articles you dig up that say otherwise because the ones i have posted already have been dismissed by you all .

second filling a number of holes with lesser talent means you will field a second rate team .

you fill a hole with a good player that is one less then what you have to deal with later

you can never reach for an o/lineman if your have issues like the skins do on the o/line

really fellas i think this has played out as much as it can

Agreed... I dont think any one is going to change their minds on this one.

 

[redskinsfan]

And you are basically saying, lets take the lesser rated players and more of them and hope that we hit on 50%. Fact is, if Tomlinson, Collins or any one else you name was as good as Scherff, THEY would be considered a top ten pick. You are talking about guys that your vaunted Pundits have rated as 3rd rounders in some cases. Its fine to draft backups and projects... sadly we actually need starters. And not guys who get the starting role because we dont got dick else to put on the field. You can call it the sexy pick until you are blue in the face, but can you honestly say Scherff wouldnt start over Chester and Likely Compton?? Where as the 3rd rounders you want to take have just as much chance of being a three year project as Moses was... .we dont NEED another Moses. I dont want another Moses. Rebuilding teams need starters, not more projects.

And that's my point: people in the first three rounds are starters. Do you know someone who thinks that second and third rounders are throwaway picks? Vinny Cerrato --> Jason Taylor, TJ Duckett, ring a bell?

Guess who we also have to make picks for us? Someone smarter and wiser than you, me, and anyone else here.

But somehow, you reek of some arrogance that you're smarter than everyone in the room.

How's Baltimore treating you, Vinny?

 

[redskinsfan]

first off he is an OT and i dont care how many articles you dig up that say otherwise because the ones i have posted already have been dismissed by you all .

second filling a number of holes with lesser talent means you will field a second rate team .

you fill a hole with a good player that is one less then what you have to deal with later

you can never reach for an o/lineman if your have issues like the skins do on the o/line

really fellas i think this has played out as much as it can

Name me ONE (reputable) source that thinks Scherff is a legit tackle. If you believe he's an OT, you'd believe in chemtrails too. And who says those guys are "second rate"? Rebuilding teams fill their holes by parlaying higher draft picks into more picks. By doing that, they may be skipping out on blue-chip talent, but they're still getting starting / franchise caliber talent that can last for years. Remember Jon Jansen? He got taken in the second round. But I guess he was a "second rate" talent, right?

What did you think the Rams did with the picks they gave us? They too were a rebuilding team and they took one of our first rounders and used that to get more picks. One of several examples they got from that pick was "second rate" CB Janoris Jenkins in the second round.

And I thought we had gotten rid of Vinny.