Even Kiem doesnt think he is a OT

[skinsdad62]

And that's my point: people in the first three rounds are starters. Do you know someone who thinks that second and third rounders are throwaway picks? Vinny Cerrato --> Jason Taylor, TJ Duckett, ring a bell?

Guess who we also have to make picks for us? Someone smarter and wiser than you, me, and anyone else here.

But somehow, you reek of some arrogance that you're smarter than everyone in the room.

How's Baltimore treating you, Vinny?

i havent heard SM say one word about scherf at all . not one word so how are we smarter then anyone in the room again ?

this isnt my first rodeo . and last season i was told clowney was the next LT and gilbert with his supreme athletic skills would dominate . how did that work out again ?

 

[skinsdad62]

Name me ONE (reputable) source that thinks Scherff is a legit tackle. If you believe he's an OT, you'd believe in chemtrails too. And who says those guys are "second rate"? Rebuilding teams fill their holes by parlaying higher draft picks into more picks. By doing that, they may be skipping out on blue-chip talent, but they're still getting starting / franchise caliber talent that can last for years. Remember Jon Jansen? He got taken in the second round. But I guess he was a "second rate" talent, right?

What did you think the Rams did with the picks they gave us? They too were a rebuilding team and they took one of our first rounders and used that to get more picks. One of several examples they got from that pick was "second rate" CB Janoris Jenkins in the second round.

And I thought we had gotten rid of Vinny.

i am not going through this again i have already posted it

 

[redskinsfan]

i am not going through this again i have already posted it

Almost no one agrees with that viewpoint. That ought to tell you something. There are people that believe vaccines cause autism. Same principle.

 

[Sharkinva]

And that's my point: people in the first three rounds are starters. Do you know someone who thinks that second and third rounders are throwaway picks? Vinny Cerrato --> Jason Taylor, TJ Duckett, ring a bell?

Guess who we also have to make picks for us? Someone smarter and wiser than you, me, and anyone else here.

But somehow, you reek of some arrogance that you're smarter than everyone in the room.

How's Baltimore treating you, Vinny?

First off I agree that 2nd and 3rd Rounders SHOULD be starters. But to simply ignore the fact that we havent gotten a GOOD starter on the O-line outside of the first round in over 13 years is borderline crazy.

Secondly I have seen this movie before.. we bring in the cant miss solution that some how manages to out think himself and we end up spinning our wheels AGAIN.


Third I dont have to be smarter than everyone in the room to realize that some times the OBVIOUS choice is actually the right choice and trying to get to cute has bitten this team in the ass enough times that I would much rather take the safe pick that fills a need both short and long term and let Scot show just how good he actually is by trading down in the 2nd and later rounds.

 

[redskinsfan]

First off I agree that 2nd and 3rd Rounders SHOULD be starters. But to simply ignore the fact that we havent gotten a GOOD starter on the O-line outside of the first round in over 13 years is borderline crazy.

Secondly I have seen this movie before.. we bring in the cant miss solution that some how manages to out think himself and we end up spinning our wheels AGAIN.


Third I dont have to be smarter than everyone in the room to realize that some times the OBVIOUS choice is actually the right choice and trying to get to cute has bitten this team in the ass enough times that I would much rather take the safe pick that fills a need both short and long term and let Scot show just how good he actually is by trading down in the 2nd and later rounds.

So, what? That was before McCloughan. And this draft is rich in positions like o-line. Why would you pass up the chance to get more picks and still be able to fill your needs with starters in rounds two and three?

I'm convinced I'm talking to Vinny Cerrato now.

 

[Sharkinva]

So, what? That was before McCloughan. And this draft is rich in positions like o-line. Why would you pass up the chance to get more picks and still be able to fill your needs with starters in rounds two and three?

I'm convinced I'm talking to Vinny Cerrato now.

Quality over quantity.. I guess you missed the part where Im a firm believer in this.

And iM convinced Im talking to some one who hasnt taken one second to research any of the players and simply lives by the scratchoff motto.... you got to play to win, and the more tickets you get the better your odds.

 

[redskinsfan]

Quality over quantity.. I guess you missed the part where Im a firm believer in this.

And iM convinced Im talking to some one who hasnt taken one second to research any of the players and simply lives by the scratchoff motto.... you got to play to win, and the more tickets you get the better your odds.

It depends on what type of quality and quantity you're talking about. Snyder and Cerrato wanted to ransom the farm and their left nuts to get Joey Harrington. The theory? Quality beats out the quantity of draft picks we had during that draft.

Like I said, welcome, Vinnny.

 

[Sharkinva]

It depends on what type of quality and quantity you're talking about. Snyder and Cerrato wanted to ransom the farm and their left nuts to get Joey Harrington. The theory? Quality beats out the quantity of draft picks we had during that draft.

Like I said, welcome, Vinnny.

Yea Dude, but Im not talking about trading up to take another QB, or WR or Pass rusher. IM talking.......

Look at it this way. The O-line bill has been way over due for a long time now. We have the capitol to address that bill, we have a player that by most assumptions will be there when we pick And while he might not instantly fix that line problem... even you got to admit will go a long way towards fixing it now and in the future.

You on the other hand want to half pay the bill and trade down, then assume we make the team better simply because we threw more picks at it..... Is that you Jeff Fischer? Because at the end of the day the Rams are the perfect example of a team that got greedy and passed on guys who would have obviously helped out alot more than the slew of second tier players they got from all that trading down.

 

[j_y19]

Yea Dude, but Im not talking about trading up to take another QB, or WR or Pass rusher. IM talking.......

Look at it this way. The O-line bill has been way over due for a long time now. We have the capitol to address that bill, we have a player that by most assumptions will be there when we pick And while he might not instantly fix that line problem... even you got to admit will go a long way towards fixing it now and in the future.

You on the other hand want to half pay the bill and trade down, then assume we make the team better simply because we threw more picks at it..... Is that you Jeff Fischer? Because at the end of the day the Rams are the perfect example of a team that got greedy and passed on guys who would have obviously helped out alot more than the slew of second tier players they got from all that trading down.

Shark, let's consider your scenario from another angle. Say we trade back to 15 or so but we lose out on scherff. However, at 15, we get peat or flowers. We also pick up a midround 2nd so with our original second and with our new second, we take a stud G and a stud C. Wouldn't that be worth missing out on Scherff?
That would make our OL much healthier than if we just took scherff at 5.

 

[Sharkinva]

Shark, let's consider your scenario from another angle. Say we trade back to 15 or so but we lose out on scherff. However, at 15, we get peat or flowers. We also pick up a midround 2nd so with our original second and with our new second, we take a stud G and a stud C. Wouldn't that be worth missing out on Scherff?
That would make our OL much healthier than if we just took scherff at 5.

Maybe, maybe not. Thing about OTs in the draft... usually they come off the board in bunches. And lets just say i simply dont trust our draft to go the way you envision. I honestly think we trade down and dont even think about the O-line until the 3rd round or later unless we make the pick early. If reading this board and the web in general has told me any thing its that the football universe at large pays little attention to O-lineman until such time as its critical. And even then people can find a reason to marginalize the position group as a whole.

 

[j_y19]

Maybe, maybe not. Thing about OTs in the draft... usually they come off the board in bunches. And lets just say i simply dont trust our draft to go the way you envision. I honestly think we trade down and dont even think about the O-line until the 3rd round or later unless we make the pick early. If reading this board and the web in general has told me any thing its that the football universe at large pays little attention to O-lineman until such time as its critical. And even then people can find a reason to marginalize the position group as a whole.

There are 6 OTs that grade out with 1st round grades (scherff, flowers, peat, Collins, Humphries, Clemmings). Then there is Ogbuehi who many feel, while rawer, has greater upside than all of them. There is no way that all 6 are gone Even by our first pick in the 2nd. If we can trade back, it gives us the ability to pick up an extra quality player, which is what we need more than the "stud" of the OL in this draft. I would much rather have 2 very good OL men than the one stud. Any day.

 

[j_y19]

Maybe, maybe not. Thing about OTs in the draft... usually they come off the board in bunches. And lets just say i simply dont trust our draft to go the way you envision. I honestly think we trade down and dont even think about the O-line until the 3rd round or later unless we make the pick early. If reading this board and the web in general has told me any thing its that the football universe at large pays little attention to O-lineman until such time as its critical. And even then people can find a reason to marginalize the position group as a whole.

Also, as for your concern about how we have drafted in the past, you need to let the past go. There is a new sheriff in town. There is no way you can project what this franchise has done over the last 15 years to what McLoughan will do. He has a process, talent, and experience that we haven't had since bobby bethard was GM.

 

[Sharkinva]

There are 6 OTs that grade out with 1st round grades (scherff, flowers, peat, Collins, Humphries, Clemmings). Then there is Ogbuehi who many feel, while rawer, has greater upside than all of them. There is no way that all 6 are gone Even by our first pick in the 2nd. If we can trade back, it gives us the ability to pick up an extra quality player, which is what we need more than the "stud" of the OL in this draft. I would much rather have 2 very good OL men than the one stud. Any day.

Many had Moses graded as a first round talent last year. I think alot of you guys are just so shell shocked from not having a first round pick the past few years that you are excited to see the Skins be a team wheeling and dealing come draft day. And I would rather have stud o-lineman to continue to build around than keep bringing in projects. Our New Oline coach has proven that you give him quality to work with and he can give you outstanding performance. As bad as our o-line has been hammered around here, I still find it incredible that most of you would pass up on a change to seriously address the position group just so we can pick up an extra 3rd rounder, or another pass rusher or WR.

Also, as for your concern about how we have drafted in the past, you need to let the past go. There is a new sheriff in town. There is no way you can project what this franchise has done over the last 15 years to what McLoughan will do. He has a process, talent, and experience that we haven't had since bobby bethard was GM.

Like I said, I have seen this movie before. We brought in plenty of people with very impressive resumes that were supposed to change the way things were done around here. But just as i cant predict it wail fail, you cant predict that one man can simply change the culture for the better. And you really cant make that call if you are screaming for him to simply take as much goop as he can throw at the wall and see what sticks. This team has no core group of players, least wise not nearly as good as the core he had to work with at his other stops. Which is why I think we need a bigger dose of quality before we start with the quantity will rule out talk.

 

[j_y19]

Many had Moses graded as a first round talent last year. I think alot of you guys are just so shell shocked from not having a first round pick the past few years that you are excited to see the Skins be a team wheeling and dealing come draft day. And I would rather have stud o-lineman to continue to build around than keep bringing in projects. Our New Oline coach has proven that you give him quality to work with and he can give you outstanding performance. As bad as our o-line has been hammered around here, I still find it incredible that most of you would pass up on a change to seriously address the position group just so we can pick up an extra 3rd rounder, or another pass rusher or WR.



Like I said, I have seen this movie before. We brought in plenty of people with very impressive resumes that were supposed to change the way things were done around here. But just as i cant predict it wail fail, you cant predict that one man can simply change the culture for the better. And you really cant make that call if you are screaming for him to simply take as much goop as he can throw at the wall and see what sticks. This team has no core group of players, least wise not nearly as good as the core he had to work with at his other stops. Which is why I think we need a bigger dose of quality before we start with the quantity will rule out talk.

Are you kidding? The San Fran team he took over was historically bad. Also, you keep bringing up Moses. First, the jury is still out. He may turn out to be a good player. Second, you think all seven of those I IDed will not pan out? Finally, it doesn't take a good coach to make quality talent into outstanding performers. A good coach can turn marginal or unproven talent (lerebius, long, moses) into productive players.

 

[Sharkinva]

Are you kidding? The San Fran team he took over was historically bad. Also, you keep bringing up Moses. First, the jury is still out. He may turn out to be a good player. Second, you think all seven of those I IDed will not pan out? Finally, it doesn't take a good coach to make quality talent into outstanding performers. A good coach can turn marginal or unproven talent (lerebius, long, moses) into productive players.

First off i think Moses was a complete and total waste of a draft pick. If we are Lucky he will make a decent BACKUP guard.

As for do I think all 7 you Id will fail?? Not at all. I just dont trust this team to actually address the line if we dont do it early. And i think if we trade down, we will take a pass rusher or WR and wont address the line until we get to the project types once again. Forgive me for not having faith in our new GM, but as i have said... considering what i have seen on this board and on the web in general as to how people think this team will address the draft... I have no faith. And I still think it serves the team better long term to get the best talent available for the o-line in both the first and second round instead of asking our new line coach to make half assed prospects into starters.

 

[Stymietee]

I wonder if Kiem sees him as the best offensive lineman in the draft? If so, why would it be wise for Washington to pass on him when their pick comes. If not, who would be a more suitable fit in Gruden's scheme.
More in line with this conversation is, when is the best not good enough? Here's what I mean. Let's say that NFL teams, including this one identifies one player at each position who is head and shoulders better than the next best player at that same position. (Following me?) OK, then they determine what their most pressing needs are. (Still with me?) Good, Now it's draft day, no one wants to nor offers you a deal worth considering, but that team has identified their OL as priority #1, do they pass on their projected Best player, simply because historically it is not done? Mind you I am not talking about the conventional determination of value from the league perspective, but rather the INTRINSIC value for that particular team.

BTW: It might be instructive to note that the use of the word "value" must be accompanied with some declaration or notation that answers the questions specific to that which is the subject... for its own sake. Hence my use of the term "intrinsic" preceding value.

 

[redskinsfan]

Yea Dude, but Im not talking about trading up to take another QB, or WR or Pass rusher. IM talking.......

Look at it this way. The O-line bill has been way over due for a long time now. We have the capitol to address that bill, we have a player that by most assumptions will be there when we pick And while he might not instantly fix that line problem... even you got to admit will go a long way towards fixing it now and in the future.

You on the other hand want to half pay the bill and trade down, then assume we make the team better simply because we threw more picks at it..... Is that you Jeff Fischer? Because at the end of the day the Rams are the perfect example of a team that got greedy and passed on guys who would have obviously helped out alot more than the slew of second tier players they got from all that trading down.

Not quite. They played it the way rebuilding teams should. Some of their picks didn't pan out, but a whole lot did. That's the purpose of a bad team building through the draft. Trade down and get more picks to maximize you chances to fill more holes. That's conventional wisdom and the philosophy espoused by SM.

 

[skinsdad62]

i think this whole scherf things came into play if you cant trade down . our choices are a 4th wr , and some OLBS who have flaws in their games which mean nothing to some but they wont give up on scherf's

i have said all along he is a RT if he doesnt pan out he solves our OG issue long term it is never a waste of a pick if he solves a problem

the guy for the WAPO you gush over said his dream draft on twitter was to get both scherf and cann on the o/line with the 1st and 2nd round picks

shark is right on one point . taking scherf is a good move despite where he ends up . i am not so militant if we traded down and picked up a peat or flowers in addition to a cann or tomlingson but that wont happen most likely .

you guys want a pass rush OLB and you dont care if he is an orakpo clone , or a 3rd down rush specialist
i will believe beasley and gregg can stop the run when the do stop it . i will believe they will hold their weight when they do it

you dismiss your guys faults yet pile on scherf's

 

[redskinsfan]

i think this whole scherf things came into play if you cant trade down . our choices are a 4th wr , and some OLBS who have flaws in their games which mean nothing to some but they wont give up on scherf's

i have said all along he is a RT if he doesnt pan out he solves our OG issue long term it is never a waste of a pick if he solves a problem

the guy for the WAPO you gush over said his dream draft on twitter was to get both scherf and cann on the o/line with the 1st and 2nd round picks

shark is right on one point . taking scherf is a good move despite where he ends up . i am not so militant if we traded down and picked up a peat or flowers in addition to a cann or tomlingson but that wont happen most likely .

you guys want a pass rush OLB and you dont care if he is an orakpo clone , or a 3rd down rush specialist
i will believe beasley and gregg can stop the run when the do stop it . i will believe they will hold their weight when they do it

you dismiss your guys faults yet pile on scherf's

Do you see the bolded/italicized part above? That's exactly what Al Davis said about Robert Galllery. And I've gone on record that if we trade down and Scherff is there, we ought to take him. No disagreement there.

 

[skinsdad62]

Do you see the bolded/italicized part above? That's exactly what Al Davis said about Robert Galllery. And I've gone on record that if we trade down and Scherff is there, we ought to take him. No disagreement there.

find the quote , i doubt he ever said that and if he did he certainly said it after he busted out .