Do we have a Harbaugh to Michigan thread yet today?

[Robotech]

This thread is hilarious, but damn, you Californians and Pacific Northwesterners are hella snobby. Please be kind to the Southern belle.

 

[jdwills126]

Jesus, 8 million/year and he has to hitch a ride with a former player? Step it up Michigan, send a car for the poor guy...

The private jet wasn't enough? For god sakes the man wears dockers he should be able to car pool!

 

[trojanfan12]

This thread is hilarious, but damn, you Californians and Pacific Northwesterners are hella snobby. Please be kind to the Southern belle.

We love the Southern Belle. But when she said that Florida outranked Stanford academically we had no choice but to bring out our inner Dude and let her know that:

 

[TigerBait1971]

There are no gentlemen outside of the south, apparently.

 

[SUBuddha]

Wall of Text to Follow:

tl,dr= Harbaugh is a good coach and recruiter. His Standford numbers prove it given the difficulty with getting athletes into the program.

I have been informed that KT is a long time, and quality poster. Keep in mind that I am relatively new and rarely stray from the P-12 thread, so my bias is obvious. However, I pay close attention to college sports and education (I teach at a PAC university) including university rankings and admissions etc. All of that said, I will take her comments, and some of the others here, with a grain of salt. Ignorance of schools outside of your conference is not uncommon, nor is it all that big of a deal.

In terms of Harbaugh, he did amazing things at my alma mater. Things that not even Denny Green or Bill Walsh could do with the academic requirements in place at Stanford. Keep in mind, Stanford has to recruit nation wide due to the academic requirements. That is to say, there are not enough high level players who are interested in Stanford, and who can get into the school, just on the west coast to fill an entire scholarship roster. The current roster, found here Football - Roster - GoStanford.com shows Stanford, this year, had players from at least 25 different states.

People like to harp on the idea that Stanford does not hold football players to the same standards as other students, this is, however, not truly the case. Stanford uses a sliding scale that is based on the number of applicants and 3 other components, namely GPA (adjusted to the traditional 4.0 scale), test scores and extracurricular activities. Additionally, to even be eligible for enrollment all applicants must have taken at least 1 AP class Jr. year (a new requirement in the last couple years) and 2 their senior year (this is how Stanford fans know if a recruit is serious, the AP enrollment). If applicants do not have the AP courses their applications are rejected automatically.

Here is how the scale system works. Stanford takes the applicants that have the AP requirements met and puts them in a pool. Then based on the size of the class they can admit, and the number of applicants that year, they set the bar for admission. GPA, test scores and extracurricular activities are assigned a score from 1-10, with ten being best. So a student who has a perfect 4.0 gets a 10 there. Then test scores are scaled with a perfect SAT or ACT being a 10 (1600 math and verbal SAT, 36 on the ACT) and percentile ranks for test scores being used to determine the cutoff for scale numbers below 10 (e.g. if the 90th percentile on the ACT that year was 33 that would be a 9 etc.). Extracurricular activities get the same scale. For instance, in my era, an Olympian such as Summer Sanders might get a 10 on this scale, but so might someone who is a world class violinist or computer programer coming out of high school.

This gives each applicant a score from 1-30, in years that there are more applications or a need for a smaller class (average freshman class size is 1600-1800 students) the score needed goes up or down. Last year with record application numbers the scale may have been set at say a 26. This means a 5* athlete in football would still have needed a 3.7 or above and at least a 30 on the ACT. In contrast a student with limited extracurricular activity would need a 4.0 and a 34 on the ACT.

In terms of academic image in athletics, generally Stanford is recruiting against ND, Northwestern, Vandy etc. In terms of actual admissions, they are recruiting against Harvard, Yale, MIT, the military academies etc.

If all of this makes sense to you, you are a better person than I because it took me a long time, and having friends in admissions at 4 PAC universities to get it.

The point is, Harbaugh did what he did at Stanford with some of the most stringent academic requirements possible in college sports, I give him major kudos, he even, at one point, called UM out for lowering academics standards for athletes (2010 I believe).

 

[Sgt Brutus]

Hey congrats Mich, got your guy now it's time to be competitive again

 

[nddulac]

Keep in mind, Stanford has to recruit nation wide due to the academic requirements. That is to say, there are not enough high level players who are interested in Stanford, and who can get into the school, just on the west coast to fill an entire scholarship roster.

Alright - I'm calling BS. yes - Stanford does draw recruits from across the country, but it is not simply to "fill a roster." Stanford is an outstanding university and naturally draws applicants from across the country (and around the globe.) Their athletics rosters reflect a national student body, not just high academic standards.

Further, to characterize their national recruiting efforts to be a product of their high academic standards is to get it exactly backwards. Stanford is able to maintain high standards BECAUSE they recruit from a (large) national pool.

That said, it is still easier to get into Stanford (as JQ Student, at least) than it is to get into Cal. Just the fax.

 

[SUBuddha]

Alright - I'm calling BS. yes - Stanford does draw recruits from across the country, but it is not simply to "fill a roster." Stanford is an outstanding university and naturally draws applicants from across the country (and around the globe.) Their athletics rosters reflect a national student body, not just high academic standards.

Further, to characterize their national recruiting efforts to be a product of their high academic standards is to get it exactly backwards. Stanford is able to maintain high standards BECAUSE they recruit from a (large) national pool.

That said, it is still easier to get into Stanford (as JQ Student, at least) than it is to get into Cal. Just the fax.

ND I was referring to the original post that indicated Stanford only had to recruit in CA to have a team, which is patently false. Do they need to recruit nationwide? Yes. Does their academic record make it easier to recruit a certain type of student from across the U.S.A.? Yes.

However, to say that it is harder to get into CAL than Stanford, especially for an athlete is just silly. Look at their APR lowest in the country in revenue sports.

 

[nddulac]

However, to say that it is harder to get into CAL than Stanford, especially for an athlete is just silly. Look at their APR lowest in the country in revenue sports.

Good thing I didn't say that. I was referring to JQ student, not JQ student-athlete. Also, APR measures what happens after someone is admitted and is only a shadowing image of the actual admissions standards. There are approximately one shit-ton of variables that can affect a student's success in college that have absolutely nothing to do with admissions.

 

[cwerph]

I heard some clips from the "press conference" from yesterday. Honestly, it sounded like they were playing a CBS laugh track in the background. People were laughing at things that weren't funny or even intended to be. Kinda odd, really.

 

[SUBuddha]

Good thing I didn't say that. I was referring to JQ student, not JQ student-athlete. Also, APR measures what happens after someone is admitted and is only a shadowing image of the actual admissions standards. There are approximately one shit-ton of variables that can affect a student's success in college that have absolutely nothing to do with admissions.

True on APR however, the fact that an elite public school like CAL admitted players who were under prepared for the rigors of the institution plays a large part in their inability to graduate them, you have to agree with that. In contrast Stanford admitting only highly prepared athletes allows them to graduate 100% across 20 sports.

As to JQ students, if you are using the same def as me, the big difference between most public's and privates is that the endowments allow privates to allow entry to more qualified students no matter the income of the family. The fact that CAL cannot do so is not a function of admissions but financial aid. (JQ in academic circles that I run in implies poor or indigent students).

As of right now Stanford guarantees students who qualify with a family mean income of less than roughly 200k a no student loan education.

 

[nddulac]

(bucha stuff deleted.)

I'm just bustin' your chops. I have nothing but respect for Stanford academics. Well - except for that whole "Gentleman's C" bullshtye.