Clowney

[NinerSickness]

The dude has been injured and played 4 games.

4 games. Not 4 seasons. 4 games.

 

[Malibu]

Remember Houston was suppose to take Reggie Bush over Mario Williams. To early to tell. Just saying.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Still too early to tell... First off, let the kid get healthy before we can see what he really CAN or CANNOT do. The NFL is a lot more physically demanding than college. Work ethic is definitely a cause for concern, but there's plenty of time for him to learn that. And it is very premature to label someone a bust solely due to injuries. Secondly, he made a position change entering the NFL so he will need some time to adjust. The 3-4 OLB is still "like" a DE, but it has different assignments.

The leap from 1st to 2nd year is almost always when you see a player's true talents. The kid had a lot to live up to right out of the gate, so I'm not surprised people are already wanting to label him a bust. For me, time will tell.

 

[geezer]

Still too early to tell... First off, let the kid get healthy before we can see what he really CAN or CANNOT do. The NFL is a lot more physically demanding than college. Work ethic is definitely a cause for concern, but there's plenty of time for him to learn that. And it is very premature to label someone a bust solely due to injuries. Secondly, he made a position change entering the NFL so he will need some time to adjust. The 3-4 OLB is still "like" a DE, but it has different assignments.

The leap from 1st to 2nd year is almost always when you see a player's true talents. The kid had a lot to live up to right out of the gate, so I'm not surprised people are already wanting to label him a bust. For me, time will tell.

Time will tell.
The Seahawks drafted a guy named Curry. All the hype coming out of college and a physical specimen if there ever was one. A first round pick traded to the Raiders for a 7th. Teams miss so often on the so called can't miss picks.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Time will tell.
The Seahawks drafted a guy named Curry. All the hype coming out of college and a physical specimen if there ever was one. A first round pick traded to the Raiders for a 7th. Teams miss so often on the so called can't miss picks.

Yea it's definitely a tough spot to be in for both the teams drafting that high and the prospects themselves... A lot of hype & expectations surround these players and it puts a lot of pressure on them to succeed. Even if a player is having an average season the media will label them a bust because they were "supposed to be" that team's salvation.

 

[geezer]

Trade back and double your chances of getting a good player.

I wonder how much "the pressure" has affected RG3?

 

[Moab]

At this point he just hasn't been on the field enough to call him anything but a disappointment, so far. He has all the tools to be as good as he wants, or he can piss it away and be the poster boy for "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane". The only person that can really make anything happen for him is himself, so we'll all find out soon enough who and what he is.

Missing a game because of a cold is strike one in my book. (my book counts for shit though)

 

[ATL96Steeler]

A 3rd rounder to move up from the 6 to the 1? That's not a realistic trade for any team holding the top pick.

Why is it not realistic?

That's the problem with the NFL valuation system...they tend to go on precedent vs the current market. The reality is...not all 1st overall players carry the same value. HOU chose to keep a player at a position they really didn't need because they could get value comparable to other 1st overall picks...

 

[kramer1]

Injured or a Bust. I see no difference between the 2. Not playing is not playing.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Injured or a Bust. I see no difference between the 2. Not playing is not playing.

Agree on not playing is not playing, but imo totally different from playing and being a bust. One leaves a question, the other doesn't.

 

[SonnyCID]

Why is it not realistic?

That's the problem with the NFL valuation system...they tend to go on precedent vs the current market. The reality is...not all 1st overall players carry the same value. HOU chose to keep a player at a position they really didn't need because they could get value comparable to other 1st overall picks...

I agree that not all draft classes or players should carry the same value, but as in any business trades, there is a scale to maintain some type of consistency. And you can overpay, but very, very, very rarely will you underpay. And if you do, the difference is marginal. On the draft value chart, the top pick is worth 3k points, the 6 pick is worth 1,600 points, and Atlanta's 3rd round was worth 240 points. Atlanta probably could have still gotten him at a value, but the Texans simply are not going to give 1k+ point discount to anybody.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I agree that not all draft classes or players should carry the same value, but as in any business trades, there is a scale to maintain some type of consistency. And you can overpay, but very, very, very rarely will you underpay. And if you do, the difference is marginal. On the draft value chart, the top pick is worth 3k points, the 6 pick is worth 1,600 points, and Atlanta's 3rd round was worth 240 points. Atlanta probably could have still gotten him at a value, but the Texans simply are not going to give 1k+ point discount to anybody.

I get your point, but as a GM you need to understand it's a fluid marketplace...the points assigned to picks shouldn't be ironclad.

imo part of what made the ATL offer a good one for both teams was scheme wise Clowney was not a fit in HOU...and most teams knew that...coupled with the player's own question marks...they just were not going to get anything close to past trades...to not look foolish or fleeced, they chose to keep a player they really didn't need.

 

[SonnyCID]

I get your point, but as a GM you need to understand it's a fluid marketplace...the points assigned to picks shouldn't be ironclad.

imo part of what made the ATL offer a good one for both teams was scheme wise Clowney was not a fit in HOU...and most teams knew that...coupled with the player's own question marks...they just were not going to get anything close to past trades...to not look foolish or fleeced, they chose to keep a player they really didn't need.

And I don't think they are ironclad. But 35% is a lot to swallow. He would have been a better fit in ATL, I agree, they just would have to come to the table with more than a 3rd rounder, for any team holding that top pick. I think it also speaks volumes that this "great" prospect didn't garner more of a push from traditional 4-3 teams than an offer for 65% of the charted value. And who knows, he may fit in a role for Houston enough not to take a bath in a trade. But without seeing the field….

 

[kramer1]

Agree on not playing is not playing, but imo totally different from playing and being a bust. One leaves a question, the other doesn't.

Woody Hayes said the most useless player is an injured one.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

And I don't think they are ironclad. But 35% is a lot to swallow. He would have been a better fit in ATL, I agree, they just would have to come to the table with more than a 3rd rounder, for any team holding that top pick. I think it also speaks volumes that this "great" prospect didn't garner more of a push from traditional 4-3 teams than an offer for 65% of the charted value. And who knows, he may fit in a role for Houston enough not to take a bath in a trade. But without seeing the field….

That's the part we can't really answer...especially the seeing the field part.

But...after hearing the part of the negotiation that was made public here...both GMs knew that ATL needed a 4-3 DE and HOU didn't...I got the sense that HOU wanted to make a deal, but felt ATL would blink first and up the ante and when that didn't happen they pretty much had to pick him.

Of course hindsight is always 20/20...but #6 and #46 (or whatever ATL 3rd round pick was) probably looks a whole lot better now.

 

[flaraider]

Out for the season, will have surgery on his injured knee, 4 games this season, hardly an adequate body of work to judge, I guess we will see where he stands in '15.

NFL is a tough game, even a #1 pick will find that out.

I think the "b" word is premature, but this year was a wash.

 

[HammerDown]

Bigger bust: Clowney or Ryan Leaf?

 

[cdumler7]

Bigger bust: Clowney or Ryan Leaf?

Clowney's got a long ways to go to catch up with Leaf and his fall from grace. I mean he needs a couple of arrests and prison time to go with a horrible career before that happens. Plus throw a huge hissy fit in front of the media for asking him about a bad game.

 

[RobToxin]

Meanwhile, another former #1 pick that whiny bitchy Houston fans ran out of town because his name wasn't Vince Young was just named AFC Defensive Player of the Month.

Congratulations to Mario Williams.

 

[Texas Jefe]

I said before/during draft that it would be/was a huge mistake to take Clowney number 1.

First, the Texans needed/still need a QUARTERBACK. Any of the QBs available would have been a better choice than Clowney.

Second, they've already been there: They took a big, physical speciman number 1 before, how'd that turn out?

Everyone was blinded by one play with this guy. He's going to live off that one play as long as possible, then he'll be gone. Sorry, hate to say it, but it's the way I see it.