why cant i draft jimmy g at #3?

[nj_cup]

I did draft him late.

Which team will give you more points though?

1. Graham
2. Gronk
3. Brown
4. insert choice RB
5. D Jackson

Or

1. Forte
2. Nelson
3. Brown
4. insert choice RB
5. Cameron

The total points here are close, but this is what I mean with the flexibility thing. With the 2nd team build, you have 2 RBs, 2 WRs and a TE. You are free to draft the best player available the rest of the way. In the first version, you will be way behind either at WR or RB, and will therefor be forced to chase that position the rest of the draft.

If you are going to go through your first 2 picks without taking an RB or a WR, you better have an Graham or Gronk along with an elite QB. Otherwise, you are digging a hole you might not be able to climb out of.

At the end of the day, it is your team, but you asked the question and not a single response I have seen has told you this is a good strategy. You might be able to make it work anyway, but again, it is an uphill battle.

Your always going to be drafting best available always. Even if my flex and te are tied up early. Would I be looking to draft another tight end? No I would be drafting best rb or wr available.

 

[nj_cup]

Gronk is projected as the 28th best WR/TE/RB on CBS... taking him before 31st is terrible value for your flex(since position is irrelevant). Even if you like him more than what he is projected, you cant like him for the 2nd round... that is just terrible value.... You can take him in the 3rd, if you really want him....

That was the original question the. I changed it to taking him in the 3rd

It would be jimmy at 3 the. The best wr rb in the 2nd. The. Gronk at 3rd roound

 

[MilkSpiller22]

That was the original question the. I changed it to taking him in the 3rd

It would be jimmy at 3 the. The best wr rb in the 2nd. The. Gronk at 3rd roound

Again, i have no problem with drafting Gronk in the 3rd as a flex... But i have a huge problem with drafting Graham 3rd overal... that is way to soon... Gronk at 27 is to soon too, but if you like him you like him...


You are paying for Gronk to be 23rd or 24th best WR/TE/RB


Graham is projected as the 9th best WR/TE/RB by CBS taking him 3rd you are giving 6 teams an advantage over him(7 including Manning)... You can defend taking him as the first of something, but shouldnt you pick the first of something who are ranked higher before him??

First WR, First QB, both ranked and projected better...

 

[Barilko]

Im arriving way too late to this party
i have scrolled through and let me tell you
please do not ignore some of the finest advice that you can find on these pages

Tlance-Monkey_Wil etc know what they are talking about


let me say this

why would anyone fill their flex spot before filling their Rb1-WR1 -it is nothing but trouble

you even stated you may grab a top qb to cut your losses so you may have 2Te and a Qb before any WR or Rb your boat will not float

the only thing i would say is yes Jimmy G is worth grabbing i drafted him as a rookie and have kept him every year since and im lucky in doing so...

and if you were to draft Jimmy G mid to late 1st round ahead of your 1st Wr that may be a risk worth taking however you better being coming back with nothing but Wr and Rb in the next 3 or 4 rounds..

but at pick 3 you need to let Jimmy go and grab a top Rb....

 

[Barilko]

think about it this way... Last season Graham was the 7th highest scorer of RB/WR/TE... By taking Graham 3rd you would have given 4 teams an advantage(without counting QBs)... Even the elite TEs do not outscore the elite WRs or the elite RBs... So don't pick them only for the advantage at position...

I would still take him in the first round, but I would take him with at best the 9th pick... there you can at least give yourself control of the 2nd round... by taking Graham 3rd, you are relying too much on what others do, to hope you get what you want in the 2nd round... That is just too risky and too much of an advantage to the other teams...

Can you win by picking graham 3rd?? of course!! but you are certainly digging a hole that will be hard to climb out of...

Let me add that Milk posted some fine words also..

 

[Barilko]

I think nj_cup hit on an age-old argument regarding depth. Graham is definitely a difference maker. But by taking him 3rd, your team is weak at the RB position.

Many fantasy owners make the RB position their sacrificial lamb because they reason that the NFL is pass oriented. (Even though the NFL average of all 32 teams of plays called is 57% pass plays and 43% rushing plays.) Most leagues make it mandatory to start two RB - so they're still a vital part of your fantasy team.

But even more to the point, many RB are heavily involved in the passing game as receivers. Here's some numbers for you: Jamaal Charles was involved in 21.7% of KC's passes. McCoy was involved in 17.6% of Philly's passes. And Forte got 16.8% from da Bears. To put this in perspective, Jimmy Graham led the Saints in targets which boils down to 28.9% of the Saints pass plays.

Don't get me wrong - those are real good numbers for Jimmy - especially with what he does with the receptions. But the other thing to consider is how many Jimmy Graham owners won their league last season? Of the 6 leagues I'm a part of, no champ was a Graham owner.

You need to have a well balanced team to win - not just Graham.

Hey Joe everything you post is bang on

just one comment which does not have any intent to belittle anything you said here because i do 100 Per cent agree with you

however i cant help myself (maybe some Foot in me)

i won the B with my Jimmy G---Thanks Chef

 

[averagejoe]

i won the B with my Jimmy G---Thanks Chef

I wasn't in the B league, buddy so my statement still holds true.

 

[Barilko]

I wasn't in the B league, buddy so my statement still holds true.

Yes it does Yes it does

at least you know 1

 

[TREFF]

I may be a Johnny come Late to this party, but my two cents-
I wouldn't have any problem at all with anyone taking Graham at #3, If you think the advantage he gives you at TE is worth the extra effort you need to put into the draft to catch up in the other area, so be it. his advantage at TE over every other owner might just be worth it.
But adding Gronk to him, at ANY point in the draft isn't crazy, it's assinine.

 

[nj_cup]

its a risky strategy and im not willing to waste my money on to find out lol.

just thought it would be interesting try.

the point difference in te and rb1 (NOT mccoy or charles who i wouldn't be able to draft) is only about 25 (forte). wr1 is even less about 10 (calvin).

the point difference in jimmy and the next best te is close to 90. say gronk is healthy it hopefully will be 75pt difference between him and the 3rd TE avilable. thats a big point gap.

as people have mentioned there is value to find out there in the 4th rounds and later in rb/wr that any "loss" by not taking forte/calvin/manning at the 3 spot wont be as tough to make up.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

its a risky strategy and im not willing to waste my money on to find out lol.

just thought it would be interesting try.

the point difference in te and rb1 (NOT mccoy or charles who i wouldn't be able to draft) is only about 25 (forte). wr1 is even less about 10 (calvin).

the point difference in jimmy and the next best te is close to 90. say gronk is healthy it hopefully will be 75pt difference between him and the 3rd TE avilable. thats a big point gap.

as people have mentioned there is value to find out there in the 4th rounds and later in rb/wr that any "loss" by not taking forte/calvin/manning at the 3 spot wont be as tough to make up.

your too fixated on the differentials of position... Yes Graham is much better than the rest of the TE class, but only Graham is picked in the first round... No TE is picked in the second round, Gronk and Thomas might be picked in the 3rd round, and then Davis and Cameron might be picked in the 5th round... the point is that the differentials mean nothing because it all matters where you draft them...

I don't think it wise to pick Graham before all the other #1s of each position is taken(QB,WR,RB)... So basically I would say taking Graham before the 4th overall pick is going to hurt you... The problem with looking at differentials, is that you start 2 RBs and 3 WRs so the you should really be comparing the difference between a number one WR and a number 2 WR or a number 2 WR with a number 3 WR... you are comparing differentials between players picked in the same round... they should be seen to be similar...

 

[nj_cup]

your too fixated on the differentials of position... Yes Graham is much better than the rest of the TE class, but only Graham is picked in the first round... No TE is picked in the second round, Gronk and Thomas might be picked in the 3rd round, and then Davis and Cameron might be picked in the 5th round... the point is that the differentials mean nothing because it all matters where you draft them...

I don't think it wise to pick Graham before all the other #1s of each position is taken(QB,WR,RB)... So basically I would say taking Graham before the 4th overall pick is going to hurt you... The problem with looking at differentials, is that you start 2 RBs and 3 WRs so the you should really be comparing the difference between a number one WR and a number 2 WR or a number 2 WR with a number 3 WR... you are comparing differentials between players picked in the same round... they should be seen to be similar...

i only start 2 wr.

i did look at the difference. 354 is the total forte scored. there are 15 other backs that scored 200+ points. 344 is the top points scored for a wr d.thomas there are 24 wr that scored 200+ points last year.

graham scored 331.only 5 TE scored 200 points. gronk healthy would make 6 and probably be the 2nd best TE.

i originally thought taking jimmy and gronk 1/2 but i figure i can probably get gronk in the 3rd round (27th). so i would have 2 tight ends that could put up 300 points. with a lower tier rb1 or wr1 in the 2nd round. a guy that puts up somewhere between 220/230 points.

 

[nj_cup]

if a guy going after me takes lacy (254) and dez (309) which is a realistic possibility. thats 563 total. for the guys first 2 round picks.

i'm going to have jimmy at 331 and jordy nelson 285.(616) total points.... throw in gronk round 3 which hopefully puts up 300 this year. how is that not a good start? a good foundation?

 

[TKOSpikes]

Because your RB1 will be Ryan Mathews if you're lucky, and if injury occurs you are really in a hole.

....but starting only two WR could alleviate the painful mid-round musts you have to hit....and you would have to have nothing but RB on your bench, and maybe you find the Alf of 2012....

Wouldn't be me, but you could get lucky.

 

[nj_cup]

yeah i wouldn't want him but thats around the range i would be looking at if i waited til round 4 to take a rb. but he did still put up 232 points last year. maybe grab levon bell in the 2nd round then. sure my wr would be weaker but i still think that the 2 300 point players in the 2 slots (TE FLEX) when another team is starting say greg olsen ( 183) and dwayne bowe (147) as their TE and flex. you can't tell me thats not a huge advantage

 

[MilkSpiller22]

if a guy going after me takes lacy (254) and dez (309) which is a realistic possibility. thats 563 total. for the guys first 2 round picks.

i'm going to have jimmy at 331 and jordy nelson 285.(616) total points.... throw in gronk round 3 which hopefully puts up 300 this year. how is that not a good start? a good foundation?

umm, I don't follow your logic here... Do you think that Graham will be the 3rd highest scorer WR/TE/RBs??

That is the only way I see picking graham to work... otherwise you are clearly giving other owners an advantage...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I think the earliest to take graham is 5th overall and that is only if everything goes correctly...

 

[nj_cup]

umm, I don't follow your logic here... Do you think that Graham will be the 3rd highest scorer WR/TE/RBs??

That is the only way I see picking graham to work... otherwise you are clearly giving other owners an advantage...

its not really that big of an advantage though is it? point wise from last year

forte 354
d thomas 344
brown 343
calvin 335
aj 335
jimmy 331


i think i'm going to go through and try it at least. what the hell.

 

[TKOSpikes]

You are giving your advantages at two slots...and one is highly (pardon the pun) flexible. But you are failing to talk about the massive hit you take at RB1 and WR2. Like I said, any way you draft is doable. You have to get lucky with late picks snd waivers, but starting behind the 8 ball at RB usually looks bad by October.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

You are giving your advantages at two slots...and one is highly (pardon the pun) flexible. But you are failing to talk about the massive hit you take at RB1 and WR2. Like I said, any way you draft is doable. You have to get lucky with late picks snd waivers, but starting behind the 8 ball at RB usually looks bad by October.

Not if successfully using the No RB Strategy... Honestly the more I hear about the more it makes sense...

But that would mean if he wants to go TE/TE, then he would need to go WR/WR with the next 2 picks... and then his WRs wouldn't be a weakness... it would be a strength...

He says that he only starts 2 WR, but what that means is that there will still be very good WRs available for flex... which is a shame that he has the flex locked with Gronk(especially for how much he will pay for him)...

The fact that this is a 2 WR league, strongly states that locking the flex is not a good idea...