ALL THINGS SUH

[Valion78]

It would be a shock if Suh didn't try to command a huge contract. That's the way these things go, every top tier guy wants to beat the last guys record contract. I don't see his new representation allowing him to cut us a home town discount.

 

[lionstop1]

So, Nick Fairley is in his contract year in 2014. Rieff has just two years left on his original contract which only gets him around 5 million combined. If Nick has a really good season, he'll want at least 10 million or more per. Reiff shouldn't command huge dollars but it will be enough-starting LT money.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

So, Nick Fairley is in his contract year in 2014. Rieff has just two years left on his original contract which only gets him around 5 million combined. If Nick has a really good season, he'll want at least 10 million or more per. Reiff shouldn't command huge dollars but it will be enough-starting LT money.

If Detroit signs Suh to an extension where he gets big money -- Fairley is gone. No way Detroit could pay two DT's huge money.

Players like Fairley and Reiff are not one of the top players at their position, so Detroit won't have to break the bank to sign them.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Can anybody give any good reason why Suh wouldn't ask for 16 million or more? This is a business and the players understand that. How do you think Suh reacted when he saw what Megatron got? I'm pretty sure he couldn't wait for his turn.

Can anyone give a good reason why Suh would settle for the same contract he already has? I can see Suh thinking along the same lines as the fans- he's the best defensive player in the league.

Suh can ask for whatever he'd like. The reason it is absurd is simple. The highest paid DT will make 10.665 million per year and Suh isn't worth 5+ million more a year than Geno Atkins.

As far as what Megatron received -- It should have no impact on Suh, as they play different positions. It'd be like saying Suh was excited after seeing what Stafford received.

I love Suh and the last thing I want is to see him go, but with him signing on with Jay-Z, I think he is going to and get a ridiculous contract and with the leverage he has on the Lions, it is possible. I just don't think it is fiscally responsible to overpay for DT, even a DT with the talent of Suh.

This entire thing could have been avoided if we drafted Suh one year later than we did. Unfortunately -- that didn't happen though.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Can anybody give any good reason why Suh wouldn't ask for 16 million or more? This is a business and the players understand that. How do you think Suh reacted when he saw what Megatron got? I'm pretty sure he couldn't wait for his turn.

Can anyone give a good reason why Suh would settle for the same contract he already has? I can see Suh thinking along the same lines as the fans- he's the best defensive player in the league.

Absolutely not. Unless his agent is a clueless moron he will start his negotiations at a deal averaging probably $16.5m. His justification is very simple, his client should be paid as the highest defensive player in the league and the next highest contract (Williams) was signed two years ago so a slightly contract in today's dollars is no more than what the other deal was two years ago.

There is no doubt in my mind he starts at least at that amount, and quite frankly I don't expect him to move from that demand easily. If the Lions want a lesser amount it will come only if they guarantee an amount so incredibly in excess of any non-QB deal, which of course, in the never ending spiral of cap mgmt incompetence is already on our team with CJ. That means even more dead $, a lot of it.

When I said earlier in the offseason that I calculated the Lions would have cap space for free agency it included Suh actually making less. I figured 5yr/$55m not $80m. In fact, make that 5yr/$98m because that's the total amount the Lions have to amortize.

 

[themuzzer]

This should help some.

Report: NFL salary cap to increase to roughly $130 million in 2014 - CBSSports.com

 

[tpaulus_2]

Did you even read the fucking thread before you came on here popping off and calling me nuts, throwing fuel on the fire, and using grossly inflated numbers? You know me well enough, am I likely to respond well to that?

The entire thread is about Suh being paid as the highest paid defensive player in the league. It's been said about 1000 times on this and other threads. I didn't just grab that out of my ass in an effort to sensationalize my post, it was put forth by others. I had nothing to do with where it came from.

The highest paid defensive player in the league is a $16m/yr deal for Mario Williams. So if I need to take you back to second grade math here you go. If Atkins deal averages $10.67m/yr and the talk is Suh at $16m/yr that is a 50% premium. Buy a calculator before you blast me next time.

You might be the only person who doesn't think that Suh and his agent will ask for $16m/yr+. He owns the Lions right now and has every bit of leverage to get himself that type of contract. That has been the debate here for about 10 pages as to whether or not he's worth it and what other options the Lions might have.

Of course I read the thread old man. Some are of the opinion that Suh will try to become the highest paid defensive player in the NFL. I do not share that belief. I think he'll become the highest paid DT in the NFL, though.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Of course I read the thread old man. Some are of the opinion that Suh will try to become the highest paid defensive player in the NFL. I do not share that belief. I think he'll become the highest paid DT in the NFL, though.

TP -- here is the issue for the Lions. His rookie contract ALREADY made him the highest paid DT in the NFL. The Lions could offer him LESS money than his rookie contract and he would STILL be the highest paid player in the NFL at DT.

That is why everyone is speculating that Suh is going to ask for the Lions to back up the Brinks truck. There is no doubt he is one of the top DT's in the NFL. When his original contract of 12 million per year is already 1.335 million more per year than the next highest paid DT -- where do the Lions even start negotiating with him?

If they give him a 20% raise from his rookie deal -- he is now making 35% more than the next highest paid DT (Geno Atkins). When you add in the money rolled over from his 1st deal, his cap hit will be over 50% higher than the next highest paid DT per year.

This is the ONLY reason people are worried about re-signing Suh. It isn't his talent, attitude, play on the field or anything else -- it is the amount of money it MAY take to get him back and where the Lions are going to have to cut loose players to make up for the massive contract. I don't care who the players is in the NFL -- NO ONE is worth 5 million more than the next highest paid player at their position.

 

[RobBase]

This should help some.

Report: NFL salary cap to increase to roughly $130 million in 2014 - CBSSports.com

. According to Overthecap.com, the five teams with the least amount of cap space right now are the Cowboys, Steelers, Seahawks, Chargers and Rams.

Weird. I swore the Lions had the worst cap on the planet??

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

This should help some.

Report: NFL salary cap to increase to roughly $130 million in 2014 - CBSSports.com

So it makes it easier for the Lions to give Suh the monster deal while the teams who have managed their cap better have more $ to add additional talent through FA. Does this help the team actually get better? Other than whoever we draft we will put pretty much the same team on the field as last year.

Except that right now the defense is clearly not as good since we've gone from Delmas to Don Carey and lord only knows who replaces Burleson or the future of Pettigrew.

Am I really the only one who as of now, obviously the draft hasnt happened yet so its early, but who thinks this team could very easily enter the season looking to be in worse shape than it ended last season? I certainly cant see us adding any type of talent that can replace what is curerntly gone other than how good the draft goes in an attempt to fill the gaping holes, let alone actually improve upon them.

If we cant resign Pettigrew (I dont think we can) we will be weaker at TE. If we draft Dennard we hopefully get better at CB but he is a rookie and its pretty much agreed upon that rookie CB's struggle early on. Can a third or fourth round S be an improvement over Delmas? I doubt that so we drop off at that spot. Improvement (hopefully) at CB but weaker at S, is that a wash?

I dont relish the role of being negative (another apology shout out to TrustMe for the crap he took last offseason) but I have no problem being called a realist and realistically I'm looking for ways to us improve enough to truly be a contender. People cant honestly think we can stand with the Hawks, Niners, Panthers, Packers, Saints. I'd put us more in line with perhaps Philly, Cards, Bears, and probably the Rams after they add two more first rounders.

Not sure how a little more cap room helps us other than we might not have to cut guys like Hilliard, Palmer, Leshoure, etc. Maybe if they do get a Suh deal done and shove those astronomical cap hits back we might have some $ this year. Where would you spend it?

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

. According to Overthecap.com, the five teams with the least amount of cap space right now are the Cowboys, Steelers, Seahawks, Chargers and Rams.

Weird. I swore the Lions had the worst cap on the planet??

Sorry, but like you said in your post, that is as of "right now" and we've already made some moves that other teams have not.

Rams have $4.3 in space and havent cut anybody yet.
Chargers $876k with no cuts yet
Seahawks $2.9m with no cuts
Steelers ($8.9m) no cuts
Cowboys (absolutely fucked)

We've already removed $11m in our cuts. Looked over each of those teams contracts and everyone other than the Cowboys have a lot of space they can create with bloated contracts of players who will be gone once those teams start making cuts.

Spotrac showed us right now as having $7.7m. But we have cut $11.5m. Those other teams havent announced any cuts that I've seen hit Sportscenter and simply looking at their contracts you can see huge opportunities to create space. So we would otherwise be at ($3.8m) if not for the cuts we've already done. That would be third worst in the NFL trailing the Cowboys and Steelers. Check out the Steelers 2014 cap hits and you will see all kinds of contracts that can be cut and others that can be extended or restructured. I'd still put us as being in the second worse shape of all NFL teams. If we hadnt already made cuts we'd be solidly on that list.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I dont relish the role of being negative (another apology shout out to TrustMe for the crap he took last offseason) but I have no problem being called a realist and realistically I'm looking for ways to us improve enough to truly be a contender.

Thank you for the shout out. This is all I've ever tried to do with the Lions. To point out the issues with the team and ways I hope they can possibly get better. I have no issue admitting when I am wrong, as I did when Levy had an absolutely stellar year for Detroit this year, after I said he was a below average LB.

We can talk all day about the positives with the team, but the positives aren't the reason why the Lions are picking 10th overall after starting the season 6-3. It the negative issues that have to hopefully be improved upon to get this team to the next level.

Detroit has a lot of high end talent, but what they don't have is a lot of depth. That is what worries me about the Suh extension. Detroit will have to cut loose players at other positions to make it work. It is just how the business works. That is why they put out of list every year of 'cap casualty' players. It is players teams, I'm sure would love to keep, but they just don't have the room to pay them.

I would hate to see Detroit saddled with 3 monster contracts, while they try to fill the rest of the roles on the team with cheaper options and hope it works out. Detroit would have to have multiple drafts like they had last year in a row, for this to work, IMO.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Seahawks $2.9m with no cuts

I read they will save like 13 million when they cut ties with Sydney Rice alone.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

I read they will save like 13 million when they cut ties with Sydney Rice alone.

$7.3m on Rice, Zach Miller could be a cut victim at $5m savings and they have a whole bunch of contract extenstions they could do on players with small amounts of dead money. They also have quite a few decent sized contracts on guys I've never heard of with almost no dead money. They will be able to find space pretty easy to add to their $2.9m in space.

 

[tpaulus_2]

TP -- here is the issue for the Lions. His rookie contract ALREADY made him the highest paid DT in the NFL. The Lions could offer him LESS money than his rookie contract and he would STILL be the highest paid player in the NFL at DT.

That is why everyone is speculating that Suh is going to ask for the Lions to back up the Brinks truck. There is no doubt he is one of the top DT's in the NFL. When his original contract of 12 million per year is already 1.335 million more per year than the next highest paid DT -- where do the Lions even start negotiating with him?

I feel ya, I just don't see it the same way. He's already the highest paid DT because of a contract that he automatically received, not earned. He did end up earning it, but I don't see why he deserves a raise just because his contract is up. Players should get a raise if they earn it, and while he's an outstanding DT, his salary is already commensurate with his level of play, imo.

Obviously this stuff is all subject to our opinions, I just think that assuming he's going to get a substantial raise is jumping the gun a bit.

Hopefully (and this is just hoping) the competitor in him will allow him to take the highest paid DT contract and save some $$ for elsewhere on the team, rather than looking for a max deal. I know it's a business first and foremost, but he does make a ton of $$ in endorsements (Nike, Subway) so maybe he's willing to trade off some $$ for success on the field? That's my pipe dream anyhow...

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

We're clearly weaker offensively with Pettigrew and Burly being cut as we do not have anyone on the current roster with experience to match their skill-set, not to mention you shouldn't count on Broyles until maybe November (so that's (2) wr's that we need). JMO, I believe it easier for a college FS to come in as a rookie and make more of an impact than it is for a CB. We're without W. Young (FA) and J. Jones is coming off a patellar tear injury which leaves Ansah and D. Taylor. There's no guarantee Jones comes back 100% and actually makes an impact. We only have (3) legit DT's in Suh, Fairley and CJ Mosley. Five CB's (Houston, Slay, Bentley, Green, Greenwood) and the Four S's. Looks like a lot holes without ENOUGH money to make Significant changes. LB depth is an issue as well and who exactly on the roster could you employ in Austin's 3-4 looks ?

 

[RobBase]

How are we going to find a guy to make up 3 whole TD's by Burleson and Pettigrew combined last year?? Dart board sounds like a good option.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

How are we going to find a guy to make up 3 whole TD's by Burleson and Pettigrew combined last year?? Dart board sounds like a good option.

When Burly was healthy in 2011, he made an impact.

But your comment is truthful and funny

And my point was that we're strapped for money to try and fill all these holes.

 

[jalopy]

We're clearly weaker offensively with Pettigrew and Burly being cut as we do not have anyone on the current roster with experience to match their skill-set, not to mention you shouldn't count on Broyles until maybe November (so that's (2) wr's that we need). JMO, I believe it easier for a college FS to come in as a rookie and make more of an impact than it is for a CB. We're without W. Young (FA) and J. Jones is coming off a patellar tear injury which leaves Ansah and D. Taylor. There's no guarantee Jones comes back 100% and actually makes an impact. We only have (3) legit DT's in Suh, Fairley and CJ Mosley. Five CB's (Houston, Slay, Bentley, Green, Greenwood) and the Four S's. Looks like a lot holes without ENOUGH money to make Significant changes. LB depth is an issue as well and who exactly on the roster could you employ in Austin's 3-4 looks ?

I think Pettigrew, Nate, and Delmas can all be replaced via FA without a big increase in $$$$$'s spent over '13. I would draft a OLB with one of our top two picks and a FS with the other. Those two picks would need to start almost immediately. With the rest of our picks we draft a CB, WR, OT and get some depth on defense.
I don't look at the Lions as needing an overhaul. They have plenty of talent but they need a coach to get the most out of them. Looking at the roster of the other NFC Central teams I don't see anyone more talented than the Lions. A new Suh contract would go a long way in freeing up cap space but hurt the organization in the long run. I'm hardly an expert on the Lions but they really need Bush to perform up to his ability and stay healthy. Same for CJ and Stafford.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Jalopy


I'm in total agreement using our 1st and 2nd round picks on a FS and OLB (1st and 2nd rd picks should be starters unless your team is in a position to purely draft BPA and using those picks as depth and we don't have that liberty).


I believe we only have 3 mil in cap space right now, and put aside the hopeful Suh extension for the moment. It will take just about 6 mil for our draft if I'm not mistaken. Replacing Pettigrew, Burly and Delmas will still be costly no matter how you break it down. It's not like we're going to save 10 mil in cap space signing SUH.... Now if the rumors that the cap this year is 130 mil then that gives us approx. 7 mil before whatever happens to SUH. I think people in general assume that it's easy to replace players on the cheap and also find the money to do that.