Seahawks secondary vs Peyton Manning & Company

[ram29jackson]

Cromartie actually graded higher than Sherman on PFF. You will have to subscribe to see the stats.

And you forget that Champ Bailey is healthy and playing well again.

Sure, Harris is a loss, but Denver's secondary is well suited to stopping Seattle's passing game.

what's PFF ?

 

[northeastphillyguy]

Seattle needs to send everyone for no less then 40% of the first QTR. ..it's worth giving up a TD to do it.

2 sacs, 3 knockdowns in the 1st qtr will change mannings timing for the rest of the game.

If they don't get to him early ..it's all over

I agree with you. The Pats never touched Manning,no sacks or knockdowns period. Manning lead the Broncos for scores on every drive but one. Unless there is an unwritten rule that people can't touch Manning because of his prior neck injury, then the Seahawks need to put some pressure on him. That would be a winning formula. IMO.

 

[Morpheus]

The Seahawks dont blitz much. This is not a high risk/high reward D that takes a lot of chances. They want to be physical but keep everything in front of them and dont give the big play. They're also a great tackling defense that will keep 7 in coverage,I wouldn't expect these receivers to get 180 YAC like they're accustomed to. And if something is not working, IMO Carroll is one of the best at defensive adjustments in the league.

And if Manning wins, I highly doubt he retires. His team will be SB favorites next year, he will be MVP favorite, and he'll make another 20 mil.

Seattle has had great success with a 4 man rush occasionally bringing an extra rusher, but Denver's O-line has done a great job of protecting Manning as well.

This will also be a great match-up to watch.

But they don't disguise what they do and against a QB like Manning, there weaknesses will get exposed.

I don't how Seattle can completely shut down Denver's passing game. Manning will find the open guy, check down to a RB, run the bubble screen, or audible to a run play if they are dropping 7 back into coverage and allowing Moreno and Ball to grind out yards. Denver has run the ball very effectively this year. Once you try and stack the box to stop the run you will leave one on one coverage and with receivers liek DT, JT, Decker or Welker, only a matter of time before they gouge Seattle for a big pass play.

Slow them down, disrupt their timing sure. Completely shut them down, no way.

If Seattle can create turnovers, that can tip the balance in their favor. But Denver has been playting smart careful football and protecting the ball well in the playoffs.

 

[Morpheus]

what's PFF ?

Pro Football Focus.


https://www.profootballfocus.com/

You can read the blogs and articles for free but to get premium stats, you have to buy a subscription.

 

[tshirt]

Wilson's best rushing game this season was 102 yds at the Colts
Last season it was 92 yds, 3 TDs at the Bills

 

[Morpheus]

Seattle needs to send everyone for no less then 40% of the first QTR. ..it's worth giving up a TD to do it.

2 sacs, 3 knockdowns in the 1st qtr will change mannings timing for the rest of the game.

If they don't get to him early ..it's all over

You send an all out blitz against Manning and he will torch you.

 

[Morpheus]

eh, stats don't work as well in football as they do in baseball imo. i've watched a lot of champ over the years, every year, and his play really started dwindling a few years ago. he probably should have been demoted to nickel back 2 or 3 years ago.

I would be willing to bet real hard-earned cash that if Denver loads 7 and 8 guys in the box to shut down Lynch and the Broncos expect Champ to take care of Baldwin or Tate or Harvin on his own or with very little help, it will be ugly for him. Several receptions. Lots of yardage. Maybe a couple of TD's.

The Broncos defensive coaches are going to need to plan for the void which is Harris.

If not for Torrey Smith abusing Champ like his red-headed step child last January, the Broncos may be going to back to back SB's.

Champ IS a huge liability in this game and I think the Broncos coaches probably know it so they may come up with some coverage schemes to help Champ so they don't have a repeat of last year's playoffs.

This is a ridiculous statement.

Denver's run defense has played well without stacking the box. Pot Roast and the rest of the D-line have been absolutely stuffing the run holding Blount to 6 yards and Matthews to under 40 I believe.

I will admit Lynch is a better RB than those guys but he is not superman. He is dangerous but I think Denver can contain him somewhat and not give up to many big runs.

Champ is a huge liability? Go watch the last 2 games. Seattle has no threat at WR that worries me. Even a healthy Harvin. He has not played a full game all season and DRC can stay with him.

Seattle is not beating Denver through the air.

 

[SonnyCID]

Seattle has had great success with a 4 man rush occasionally bringing an extra rusher, but Denver's O-line has done a great job of protecting Manning as well.

This will also be a great match-up to watch.

But they don't disguise what they do and against a QB like Manning, there weaknesses will get exposed.

I don't how Seattle can completely shut down Denver's passing game. Manning will find the open guy, check down to a RB, run the bubble screen, or audible to a run play if they are dropping 7 back into coverage and allowing Moreno and Ball to grind out yards. Denver has run the ball very effectively this year. Once you try and stack the box to stop the run you will leave one on one coverage and with receivers liek DT, JT, Decker or Welker, only a matter of time before they gouge Seattle for a big pass play.

Slow them down, disrupt their timing sure. Completely shut them down, no way.

If Seattle can create turnovers, that can tip the balance in their favor. But Denver has been playting smart careful football and protecting the ball well in the playoffs.

Never said they would shut them down. Just that they're not going to get torched.

 

[SonnyCID]

This is a ridiculous statement.

Denver's run defense has played well without stacking the box. Pot Roast and the rest of the D-line have been absolutely stuffing the run holding Blount to 6 yards and Matthews to under 40 I believe.

I will admit Lynch is a better RB than those guys but he is not superman. He is dangerous but I think Denver can contain him somewhat and not give up to many big runs.

Champ is a huge liability? Go watch the last 2 games. Seattle has no threat at WR that worries me. Even a healthy Harvin. He has not played a full game all season and DRC can stay with him.

Seattle is not beating Denver through the air.

Seattle is committed to the run in a way those other teams are not. Those others have leaned on it sometimes, but Seattle wants to physically dominate every game on the ground.

He's averaging 125 yards on the ground through the playoffs against good run Ds and is the NFL all-time leader in postseason runs of 25+.

 

[WizardHawk]

Looks like we are going to get another full week of both sides fans telling the other that they are going to do what they have done best all year against the other team and that what that other team did well won't work against them.

Manning will get yards and make scores. No doubt. Seattle's defense will still get some stops and are really stingy in the red zone so they will keep some of Denver's scores to FG's. For any Denver fan to simply dismiss the Seahawk's turnover margin makes me question their bias though. They feast on them and create them every game. It is a huge focus for the team and I'd be surprised to not see at least two turnovers go their way. Where they come on the field will matter and there is no telling if they can convert those to points, but it is what they do very well. Seattle is +20 on the year and was the best in football at it. They had 39 takeaways and gave up 19. That means they average 2 per game in takeaways and giving up just over 1 a game. Denver was 0 on the season giving up and taking 26. You can't simply dismiss something that team is the best in football at.

I also love how Denver knows they are going to stop Lynch and basically dismiss him entirely. Lynch was statistically better this year than Peterson. Seattle ended up 4th in football in rushing despite having a stretch where they had 3 of their starting linemen out over several games. You might have some success at limiting his damage, but it isn't a slam dunk that you will. In our last game SF fans were saying they had Lynch too as he didn't rip off any killer runs in the first half, but he normally has fairly quiet first halves. It is the 3rd and 4th quarter where he breaks his big ones off and sure enough, he did it to them as well.

Seattle hasn't turned to a pass first offense much this season. They basically only did so when they were behind by a large amount. In every one of the games they did so, they had no problems making yards and converting scores. Baldwin has been making catches while still covered all year and no one knows what Harvin will bring, but just being out there will probably make Denver overcompensate for him and leave better looks for the others.

We can have these discussions all week (and probably will), but no amount of stat crunching or trying to compare what each team did against other teams is going to tell you who will win this game. I've said all along that I give a slight edge to Denver because the Seahawks have been making too many unforced errors and will have to play a much more mistake free game to win it, but a good bounce here or a timely turnover there and they for sure could win it.

 

[tshirt]

one of the big studio analysts said Wilson reminds him of Fran Tarkenton, the 9-time Pro Bowl and HOF QB. Keep in mind Wilson has gone to the Pro Bowl every year he played in the NFL

Tarkenton 1st 5 seasons
age 21 - 143 passing ypg, 22 rushing ypg
age 22 - 185 passing ypg, 26 rushing ypg
age 23 - 165 passing ypg, 12 rushing ypg
age 24 - 179 passing ypg, 24 rushing ypg (Pro Bowl)
age 25 - 186 passing ypg, 25 rushing ypg (Pro Bowl)

Wilson 1st two seasons
age 24 - 195 passing ypg, 31 rushing ypg (Pro Bowl)
age 25 - 210 passing ypg, 34 rushing ypg (Pro Bowl)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FXyI4CNYDA]Classic Fran Tarkenton scramble (1977) - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2p8aFAeRNM]Russell Wilson's First Rushing Touchdown in the NFL - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Tacoma_canuck]

Not sure you blow us out of the water on Special Teams. Now the Broncos have been inconsistent but they do boast the most accurate kicker in the NFL with Prater who also boasts a big leg now having the NFL record for longest field goal. Our Punter although rarely used is one of the top 5 punters in the NFL. He is great at pinning teams back. Throw in then the Broncos do have one of the more dangerous kick returners in Holliday (don't think he will be returning punts as he hasn't all post season). Where we have lacked some has been in the coverage units but that has been because of the long list of injuries this team has had every week meaning the coverage units have had to switch every week. For the last few weeks they have had everybody healthy and the units have looked much better I think only allowing 1 punt return in the last 4 games over 10 yards.

In my earlier post, this is what I was referring to. I don't know how good your coverage team is so I never said much about it. You have cleared that up somewhat, thanks. I think the PK's are a wash. Both Prater and Hauschka have had good years. The weather and field could factor in a little there. Honestly' I haven't seen your teams punter hardly at all because the offense does so well but I'll take you on your word that he has been good when needed. For the Hawks, that has been one of the strongest parts of our game all year so I give our guy the slight edge. It's the return part of the ST's where things will really happen, imo. It all comes down to the coverage teams and how well they contain guys like Holliday or Harvin on the other side. Of course, it could be Tate or Baldwin too. Tate is a little scary to watch sometimes but if he gets a clean first step, watch out. I wouldn't say blow you out of the water either, but I do think Seattle's guys are as good as any unit in football so maybe an edge based on the coverage units.

 

[ram29jackson]

one of the big studio analysts said Wilson reminds him of Fran Tarkenton, the 9-time Pro Bowl and HOF QB. Keep in mind Wilson has gone to the Pro Bowl every year he played in the NFL

Fran T didn't get a trophy either

 

[Midnightangel]

one of the big studio analysts said Wilson reminds him of Fran Tarkenton, the 9-time Pro Bowl and HOF QB. Keep in mind Wilson has gone to the Pro Bowl every year he played in the NFL

Tarkenton 1st 5 seasons
age 21 - 143 passing ypg, 22 rushing ypg
age 22 - 185 passing ypg, 26 rushing ypg
age 23 - 165 passing ypg, 12 rushing ypg
age 24 - 179 passing ypg, 24 rushing ypg (Pro Bowl)
age 25 - 186 passing ypg, 25 rushing ypg (Pro Bowl)

Wilson 1st two seasons
age 24 - 195 passing ypg, 31 rushing ypg (Pro Bowl)
age 25 - 210 passing ypg, 34 rushing ypg (Pro Bowl)

Classic Fran Tarkenton scramble (1977) - YouTube

Russell Wilson's First Rushing Touchdown in the NFL - YouTube

Apologies but keep in mind the passing rules have changed between when Fran left and Russell started. Those passing numbers should be a LOT higher in today's NFL.

 

[SonnyCID]

Apologies but keep in mind the passing rules have changed between when Fran left and Russell started. Those passing numbers should be a LOT higher in today's NFL.

Sure, if you're on a team that doesn't have a great defense and running game. Why shouldn't you play like it's the 70s if you're winning a lot doing it?

 

[Midnightangel]

If you're on a team that doesn't have a great defense and running game. Why shouldn't you play like it's the 70s if you're winning a lot?

Just saying that it's really not a comparison that holds a lot of water. Rules have changed to make passing MUCH easier so the numbers should be higher.

 

[Midnightangel]

We weren't comparing teams - we were comparing QB's.

If your point is that the Seahawks are winning - I agree. But that's a comparison of teams.

If one is going to compare Russell's numbers to a HoFer, those numbers should be higher given the passing rules today.

I'm saying apples to oranges.

 

[SonnyCID]

Just saying that it's really not a comparison that holds a lot of water. Rules have changed to make passing MUCH easier so the numbers should be higher.

Why "should" they be higher though? They're winning doing what they're doing. He's very effective when he throws it. He's efficient, he has a high YPA, he makes a lot of big throws late in games. If they weren't winning I would say that his yardage needs to go up, but when they're winning who gives a shit? The kid has proven time and again that when they need the yards he gets them.

 

[Midnightangel]

Why "should" they be higher though? They're winning doing what they're doing. He's very effective when he throws it. He's efficient, he has a high YPA, he makes a lot of big throws late in games. If they weren't winning I would say that his yardage needs to go up, but when they're winning who gives a shit? The kid has proven time and again that when they need the yards he gets them.

Again...we're comparing the MEN, not the TEAMS.

The rules have changed dramatically. If you're going to compare two men that are that far apart you have to acknowledge the rules have changed and thus adjust your sights to fit.

His numbers should be higher given today's rules.

NFL Stats: by Player Category

Russell is currently ranked 16th in the league.

Get it now?

 

[WizardHawk]

More of your bullshit Angel. He was telling you pretty plainly that those numbers should be higher on a team that focuses on the passing, but we do not. We play more like the teams from the 70's because we feature the run first so obviously Wilson isn't going to have as many passing yards as pass first teams. Get it?