Playoff Picture

[LucklessPadresFan]

Which is why this loss to SD absolutely sucks on every level.

I heard an interesting take on the Chiefs' loss on ESPN. Can't remember the guy's name, but he essentially said that with the Chiefs' playing man coverage on defense, QBs like Rivers and Manning will have a field day with the pass defense since they don't have to make adjustments to various coverage schemes you'd see with zone coverage defenses. QBs who are good, accurate passers then can simply focus on getting the match ups they want and shred the Chiefs' defense.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I heard an interesting take on the Chiefs' loss on ESPN. Can't remember the guy's name, but he essentially said that with the Chiefs' playing man coverage on defense, QBs like Rivers and Manning will have a field day with the pass defense since they don't have to make adjustments to various coverage schemes you'd see with zone coverage defenses. QBs who are good, accurate passers then can simply focus on getting the match ups they want and shred the Chiefs' defense.

I agree to an extent, you can say very similar things, perhaps even moreso, for zone defense depending on the QB. The Chiefs D isn't so much interested in tricking QB's so much as it is designed to beat the receivers in man and the pass protection which the QB can then respond by "choosing" the matchup. We saw this with Rivers and Manning trying to get say a Cooper on D.Thomas or on K.Allen. Quite simply, the SD WR's won the battle against Man and Rivers delivered the ball in a timely and efficient manner. Because both the pass rush and at some points the coverage itself independently (not influenced by a poor pass rush) was questionable, you have a perfect storm with a QB playing as well as Rivers to have 40+ hung on the Chiefs at home.

Where zone defense may help is with the natural picks we keep seeing being employed since Cleveland started using it against the Chiefs (Perhaps not coincidently, the sack numbers started to deteriorate since that Cleveland game which A.P. has picked up on) which we saw all day with guys like Cooper getting picked to spring Allen open. We also saw the Chiefs use "natural picks" to spring Jenkins open as well. Unfortunately, Manning is notorious for eating zone alive so I don't think the Chiefs can honestly go to zone against the Broncos; especially with the receivers at their disposal.

Denver is probably the most notorious of all for the use of these "natural picks" so these crossing routes will continue to be the Achilles heel until Sutton can figure out a way to adjust to it (preferably in Man vs QB's like Manning and Rivers) and contain it. Especially the crossing routes that have been bloody murder on this defense the past month.

Here is an example of what I am talking about from A.P. (KC Chiefs game plan: 4 things to fix on defense vs. Denver Broncos - Arrowhead Pride)


Does that route tree look very familiar? It should, because Allen ran that route numerous times with success and often times caught Cooper the rookie in a pick. The consequence? Allen gets a bunch of Yac yards and another first down time and time again.

 

[MHSL82]

Don't the Chiefs still have to go to San Diego? Unless some serious injuries happen I would bet the Chiefs will not be favored in that one.

True, but I was assuming if KC beat Dwnver without Houston and an injured Hali, the Chiefs would be favorite against San Diego, even in San Diego, if both were healthy. This is assuming Denver is close to regular strength, give or take average injuries, this Sunday.

 

[MHSL82]

I agree to an extent, you can say very similar things, perhaps even moreso, for zone defense depending on the QB. The Chiefs D isn't so much interested in tricking QB's so much as it is designed to beat the receivers in man and the pass protection which the QB can then respond by "choosing" the matchup. We saw this with Rivers and Manning trying to get say a Cooper on D.Thomas or on K.Allen. Quite simply, the SD WR's won the battle against Man and Rivers delivered the ball in a timely and efficient manner. Because both the pass rush and at some points the coverage itself independently (not influenced by a poor pass rush) was questionable, you have a perfect storm with a QB playing as well as Rivers to have 40+ hung on the Chiefs at home.

Where zone defense may help is with the natural picks we keep seeing being employed since Cleveland started using it against the Chiefs (Perhaps not coincidently, the sack numbers started to deteriorate since that Cleveland game which A.P. has picked up on) which we saw all day with guys like Cooper getting picked to spring Allen open. We also saw the Chiefs use "natural picks" to spring Jenkins open as well. Unfortunately, Manning is notorious for eating zone alive so I don't think the Chiefs can honestly go to zone against the Broncos; especially with the receivers at their disposal.

Denver is probably the most notorious of all for the use of these "natural picks" so these crossing routes will continue to be the Achilles heel until Sutton can figure out a way to adjust to it (preferably in Man vs QB's like Manning and Rivers) and contain it. Especially the crossing routes that have been bloody murder on this defense the past month.

Here is an example of what I am talking about from A.P. (KC Chiefs game plan: 4 things to fix on defense vs. Denver Broncos - Arrowhead Pride)


Does that route tree look very familiar? It should, because Allen ran that route numerous times with success and often times caught Cooper the rookie in a pick. The consequence? Allen gets a bunch of Yac yards and another first down time and time again.

I'm not good at schemes. But someone was talking about doing man-to-man and when they cross they should switch. Sounds complicated with a lot of emphasis on communication. Also, that might leave open some routes late developing up the seam and other options. This may be anticipated by Denver. So I don't know the solution.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I'm not good at schemes. But someone was talking about doing man-to-man and when they cross they should switch. Sounds complicated with a lot of emphasis on communication. Also, that might leave open some routes late developing up the seam and other options. This may be anticipated by Denver. So I don't know the solution.

That would be correct based on all I have ever known regarding Man schemes. As it turns out though, it is a very tricky process given how sophisticated the pick routes have become. Additionally, even if you evade or disrupt the pick altogether, there is a good chance the WR is still open with a chance for YAC. It is a very tricky concept to defend if you are in the Chiefs position right now.

 

[NJBuckO's]

Without their two best pass rushers they almost would've been better off playing zone on that last drive, keeping the WR in front of everyone, even if they got down inside the 20.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Terez A. Paylor @TerezPaylor



Here's the scene from the #Chiefs' locker room Wednesday, when Tamba Hali walked in, limp free:: kansascity.com/2013/11/27/465…






Looks like Tamba is going to play.

 

[Black Adam]

Terez A. Paylor @TerezPaylor



Here's the scene from the #Chiefs' locker room Wednesday, when Tamba Hali walked in, limp free:: kansascity.com/2013/11/27/465…






Looks like Tamba is going to play.

Definitely good news, cuz we're gonna need him...

 

[MHSL82]

That would be correct based on all I have ever known regarding Man schemes. As it turns out though, it is a very tricky process given how sophisticated the pick routes have become. Additionally, even if you evade or disrupt the pick altogether, there is a good chance the WR is still open with a chance for YAC. It is a very tricky concept to defend if you are in the Chiefs position right now.

... especially midseason. Well, just like the offense was holding back, maybe the defense has something up their sleeve? (Nothing drastic like all zone.) However, I don't think they do and if so, it was likely under the assumption they'd still have Houston and Hali. Plus, losing this last game waiting would have been stupid. Just trying to be optimistic for the Chiefs' defense.

 

[MHSL82]

Terez A. Paylor @TerezPaylor

Here's the scene from the #Chiefs' locker room Wednesday, when Tamba Hali walked in, limp free:: kansascity.com/2013/11/27/465…

Looks like Tamba is going to play.

Tamba said he got his foot stuck in the dirt, so did Alex on that bizarre second down play of the first drive. Field condition? Coincidence? Different action?

 

[MHSL82]

Without their two best pass rushers they almost would've been better off playing zone on that last drive, keeping the WR in front of everyone, even if they got down inside the 20.

Never let someone behind you. If Sean thought Demps was behind him, he didn't know what was going on. Having said that, I read that Demps was drawn to an adequately defended Gates.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Never let someone behind you. If Sean thought Demps was behind him, he didn't know what was going on. Having said that, I read that Demps was drawn to an adequately defended Gates.

Disappointed to see Sean Smith blow coverage at some very inopportune times this season. He can't seem to cover if he doesn't j am the receiver at the LOS.

 

[NJBuckO's]

If ever they needed to set that decibel record it's Sunday.

 

[CaptainStubing]

after starting 9-0, i could see the chiefs finishing 10-6. fortunately for them, that will be plenty to get the #5 seed in the afc and a trip to cincy in the playoffs, which is a very winnable game for anyone.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

after starting 9-0, i could see the chiefs finishing 10-6. fortunately for them, that will be plenty to get the #5 seed in the afc and a trip to cincy in the playoffs, which is a very winnable game for anyone.

Maybe, but I would have to say as long as the defense is healthy, this team should be fine. 10-6 would be a mini disaster by itself.

 

[cdumler7]

Maybe, but I would have to say as long as the defense is healthy, this team should be fine. 10-6 would be a mini disaster by itself.

Heard Houston is out 2-3 weeks...Is that right or did I just make that up?

I agree the Chiefs should be fine. Really the two big games they have left are this week against the Broncos and the last one against the Chargers in my opinion. The Raiders are just not up to par, Washington is about as chaotic of a team as there is, and Indy is just collapsing on themselves right now. I think the Chiefs win 2 of those 3 and maybe split the Broncos/Chargers games to finish the season 3-2 and overall 12-4.

 

[CaptainStubing]

well, really, the chiefs season from here will depend on how they adjust to what offenses are doing to them over the past month. o-coordinators started to figure out that the way to beat the aggressive, up-field chiefs defense is to run the ball and implement a quick, short passing game. and it's working. the chiefs gave up about 460 yards a game during november.

whether hali/houston are healthy really doesn't matter at this point because they have been non-factors for a month. the chiefs need to re-think their defense or teams will continue doing this to them. and all 5 of the chiefs remaining opponents have proven they can run the ball and/or implement a successful short, quick passing game. which is why i say i could easily see them only winning 1 of their remaining games. if they can't be successful in their adjustments on defense, they are in trouble.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Heard Houston is out 2-3 weeks...Is that right or did I just make that up?

I agree the Chiefs should be fine. Really the two big games they have left are this week against the Broncos and the last one against the Chargers in my opinion. The Raiders are just not up to par, Washington is about as chaotic of a team as there is, and Indy is just collapsing on themselves right now. I think the Chiefs win 2 of those 3 and maybe split the Broncos/Chargers games to finish the season 3-2 and overall 12-4.

That is what the latest word is at the moment. With that being said, the Defense will probably be fine as long as Sutton adjusts appropriately given the amount of yardage on long pass plays, he has the personnel to do it at his disposal regardless so long as there is something resembling a pass-rush.

12 or 13 wins seems likely unless Sutton turns out to be a stubborn asshole and does not adjust the defense accordingly.

 

[MHSL82]

well, really, the chiefs season from here will depend on how they adjust to what offenses are doing to them over the past month. o-coordinators started to figure out that the way to beat the aggressive, up-field chiefs defense is to run the ball and implement a quick, short passing game. and it's working. the chiefs gave up about 460 yards a game during november.

whether hali/houston are healthy really doesn't matter at this point because they have been non-factors for a month. the chiefs need to re-think their defense or teams will continue doing this to them. and all 5 of the chiefs remaining opponents have proven they can run the ball and/or implement a successful short, quick passing game. which is why i say i could easily see them only winning 1 of their remaining games. if they can't be successful in their adjustments on defense, they are in trouble.

They could, but other teams have weaknesses as well and KC's studying them, too; I could easily see KC winning 3-4 games, too. So, 2-3 is reasonable?

 

[CaptainStubing]

They could, but other teams have weaknesses as well and KC's studying them, too; I could easily see KC winning 3-4 games, too. So, 2-3 is reasonable?

i agree. if the proper adjustments are made on defense and their offense continues to improve, they could also get back to their winning ways and win 3 or 4 of their final 5 games. it will be interesting to see where they go from here. they are at a crossroads.