Total Championships Is The Diciding Factor Not The Only Factor

[TurnUpTheHeat]

As I said - the rings is obviously the deciding factor, but not the only factor which is what I wanted to clear up. That being said I believe that is what Magic Johnson was talking about and that the Heat fans in here have taken things out of context - I would agree that Robert Horry with 8 rings is not a better player then Michael Jordan with six rings, but there is no question that Michael Jordan with 6 rings is 100% better then Lebron with 2 rings.

And there is also no question that James with 2 rings is a better player then Kobe with 5.

Chances are, at the end of their careers, Kobe and Wade will have a similar ring count, and people can debate who was the better of those 2.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

And there is also no question that James with 2 rings is a better player then Kobe with 5.

Chances are, at the end of their careers, Kobe and Wade will have a similar ring count, and people can debate who was the better of those 2.

I disagree because I saw Kobe play in those first three championships and he has accomplished many things that Lebron has yet to do. Lebron so far has been healthier and more athletic than Kobe though and if he remains as such, yes he might pass all of Kobe's stats, but basic math 5 > 2. Just be patient and see how Lebron finishes - then you won't have to depend on retarded statements that 2 is better then 5

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Another thing - those of you that insist on saying that Kobe played second fiddle to Shaq and Shaq did all are only showing your extreme ignorance on that matter. There were the games were Kobe shot 21 3 point shots and made them, there were the 40 ppg + and there were the times that Kobe carried the team when Shaq was in foul trouble or injuried. Then in one of the championship runs, Kobe called Shaq up at 3 am in the morning to discuss the strategy and how to get the win. Kobe was just as much as part of those runs as Shaq was, so you reeally don't know what you're talking about as usual

 

[LogicMan]

Its not the only factor buts its close. Bill Russell is the standard, and arguably MJ shores up closest to him with 6 that should have been 8 barring a gambling problem.

They are the standard, the two greatest

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Its not the only factor buts its close. Bill Russell is the standard, and arguably MJ shores up closest to him with 6 that should have been 8 barring a gambling problem.

They are the standard, the two greatest

That's my point - Obviously there are some circumstances that will just say that the total rings isn't enough, but I would say Lebron is already better then Stockton, Robinson, Malone or Shaq Oneal, but he is not better the Kobe, Jordan, Russell, Bird, Thomas, and some of the others

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

That's my point - Obviously there are some circumstances that will just say that the total rings isn't enough, but I would say Lebron is already better then Stockton, Robinson, Malone or Shaq Oneal, but he is not better the Kobe, Jordan, Russell, Bird, Thomas, and some of the others

Your point is pointless.

To win championships, you need to be on a championship roster.

Go over your list of names and consider the rosters they were on when they won or lost.

The players with the higher ring counts were on much better teams then the others.

James already has 4 league MVP's. Kobe will retire with 1.
How can the player voted the best player in the league 4 times not be better then any player with just 1?

You have a much better argument over who has had the better career.
Obviously, Kobe's career is near over and James just entered his prime, so that argument is incomplete at best.

Bottom line is that if James stays healthy, the only discussion 10 years from now will be Jordan/James or James/Jordan.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Please reverse comments for quotes...on phone

I disagree because I saw Kobe play in those first three championships and he has accomplished many things that Lebron has yet to do. Lebron so far has been healthier and more athletic than Kobe though and if he remains as such, yes he might pass all of Kobe's stats, but basic math 5 > 2. Just be patient and see how Lebron finishes - then you won't have to depend on retarded statements that 2 is better then 5

It is not out of.context it was his direct and entire quote. We are not twisting his words. If you are going to keep using excuses go with a more plausible one, he was drunk so he forgot hoe.to.count and basketball history and was butthurt lbj left him off the top 3.

As I said - the rings is obviously the deciding factor, but not the only factor which is what I wanted to clear up. That being said I believe that is what Magic Johnson was talking about and that the Heat fans in here have taken things out of context - I would agree that Robert Horry with 8 rings is not a better player then Michael Jordan with six rings, but there is no question that Michael Jordan with 6 rings is 100% better then Lebron with 2 rings.

Keep dreaming there is nothing kobe has done that lbj has not done better, also nobody is taking kobes 5 rings and 1 mvp over lbjs 2 and 4.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Please reverse comments for quotes...on phone



It is not out of.context it was his direct and entire quote. We are not twisting his words. If you are going to keep using excuses go with a more plausible one, he was drunk so he forgot hoe.to.count and basketball history and was butthurt lbj left him off the top 3.



Keep dreaming there is nothing kobe has done that lbj has not done better, also nobody is taking kobes 5 rings and 1 mvp over lbjs 2 and 4.

Yeah - the Lebron nuthuggers do it all the time

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Please reverse comments for quotes...on phone



It is not out of.context it was his direct and entire quote. We are not twisting his words. If you are going to keep using excuses go with a more plausible one, he was drunk so he forgot hoe.to.count and basketball history and was butthurt lbj left him off the top 3.



Keep dreaming there is nothing kobe has done that lbj has not done better, also nobody is taking kobes 5 rings and 1 mvp over lbjs 2 and 4.

\

Actually you have it backwards - there is nothing Lebron has done that Kobe hasn't already done and done it better. 5 is larger then 2

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Your point is pointless.

To win championships, you need to be on a championship roster.

Go over your list of names and consider the rosters they were on when they won or lost.

The players with the higher ring counts were on much better teams then the others.

James already has 4 league MVP's. Kobe will retire with 1.
How can the player voted the best player in the league 4 times not be better then any player with just 1?

You have a much better argument over who has had the better career.
Obviously, Kobe's career is near over and James just entered his prime, so that argument is incomplete at best.

Bottom line is that if James stays healthy, the only discussion 10 years from now will be Jordan/James or James/Jordan.

Except bill and kareem probably have something to say about your goat list...unless your list is greatest non center of all time.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Your point is pointless.

To win championships, you need to be on a championship roster.

Go over your list of names and consider the rosters they were on when they won or lost.

The players with the higher ring counts were on much better teams then the others.

James already has 4 league MVP's. Kobe will retire with 1.
How can the player voted the best player in the league 4 times not be better then any player with just 1?

You have a much better argument over who has had the better career.
Obviously, Kobe's career is near over and James just entered his prime, so that argument is incomplete at best.

Bottom line is that if James stays healthy, the only discussion 10 years from now will be Jordan/James or James/Jordan.

Many would argue that Lebron was on a championship roster in Cleveland - they had the best team in the NBA and still got punked in the playoffs. Some calls that total collapse, failure as in not a champion, as in a quitter. Kobe never quit or gave up and Kobe won championships with less then what Lebron had in Cleveland or in Miami in the first year

 

[Triplexxx23]

Many would argue that Lebron was on a championship roster in Cleveland - they had the best team in the NBA and still got punked in the playoffs. Some calls that total collapse, failure as in not a champion, as in a quitter. Kobe never quit or gave up and Kobe won championships with less then what Lebron had in Cleveland or in Miami in the first year

Lebron was on a championship team in cleveland? WTF pass me that shit you smoking lol. When Lebron was in Cleveland they had the best record in the league. He leaves Cleveland and they end up with the worst record in the NBA???? yea that's a fucking championship team. Shit even when jordan left the bulls after winning the 3rd one and then retiring, the bulls still made the playoffs and took the knicks to 7 games. shaq leaves L.A and the lakers struggle for few years...kobe almost wanting to leave until paul gasol got there. trust me if Lebron had shaq or like you say less talented players like paul gasol, andrew bynum and lamar odom. Lebron would easily gotten those rings with them.

 

[Heatles84]

Many would argue that Lebron was on a championship roster in Cleveland - they had the best team in the NBA and still got punked in the playoffs. Some calls that total collapse, failure as in not a champion, as in a quitter. Kobe never quit or gave up and Kobe won championships with less then what Lebron had in Cleveland or in Miami in the first year

I actually have to disagree TLF. I'll point out the Boston series since most people appear to be absolutely critical of Lebron's last series in Cleveland. If you compare the rosters player by player, then you'll see how much those later Cleveland teams overachieved. Here's my rankings:

1. Lebron James
2. KG
3. Paul Pierce
4. Ray Allen
5. Rajon Rondo
6. Kendrick Perkins

I wasn't sure how to rank Boston's big 3 at the time from 2-4 so please don't get over critical on that. This is just merely to show that although Lebron was the best player on the court during the series; The 2nd best on down was clearly Boston players and some could argue that Glenn Davis may have been the next best player if you consider him better than Mo Williams which is certainly debatable.

Also, something to point out - Boston clearly had the coach advantage with Doc over Mike Brown. I'm sure I won't hear any arguments from Lakers fans on this subject....

I personally think Lebron is better than Kobe and the ring argument is not the beat all argument. It should be factored, but with critical thinking and logic. There is no black or white. There has been accomplishments that Kobe has met that Lebron hasn't (scoring 81 points in a game, winning 5 titles, ranking in the top 4 all-time scoring list,etc.) and vice versa with Lebron (4 MVP's, best game 7 performance in an NBA Finals, ridiculous performance records (particularly with triple doubles)) that Kobe hasn't.

But I do agree with your stance TLF, I try to avoid these Kobe vs. Lebron conversations since Kobe's career is nearing it's end while Lebron is still midway through. Maybe 7-10 years from now we can have an honest debate like you've pointed out. Until then, everyone is simply digging their respective heels and arguing until they're blue in the face.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Lol tlf

 

[LogicMan]

When you get beyond the homerism you have to just think about which players transformed the position and with that, delivered an incredible run of championships as the product of that domination.

In the center position it was Russell, as a Guard, it was MJ, and as Forward, you have to say Lebron will make his case.

The first two are the GOAT finalists. Will Lebron join them? we will see.

 

[Crotchrocker]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crotchrocker
Imagine Lebron with YOUNG Shaq and not the dinosaur he ended up playing with in 2009-10. Maybe GTOAT. Word.

And Lebron stats will look nothing like they look now. They would be down.


You could believe that if it makes you sleep easier at night. Fact of business, Lebron's stats didn't really go down when he joined D-Wade and Bosh. Word.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

If Kevin Garnet had made his way to the Celtics about 4 years sooner, he would have more rings then Little Lebron right now - Thank God that didn't happen

WORD

 

[BOTSLAYER]

If Kevin Garnet had made his way to the Celtics about 4 years sooner, he would have more rings then Little Lebron right now - Thank God that didn't happen

WORD

and if nash, pau, howard kobe and shaq all played together in their prime they would have had all the rings!!!

Was making a joke about ifs and buts but can you imagine?

Shaq at the 5 D12 at the 4 Pau as a 3? ok that would not work well...

 

[True Lakers Fan]

and if nash, pau, howard kobe and shaq all played together in their prime they would have had all the rings!!!

Was making a joke about ifs and buts but can you imagine?

Shaq at the 5 D12 at the 4 Pau as a 3? ok that would not work well...

If I had the choice though - Shaq(c), Kobe(sg) Nash(pg) - That combo would have won five straight in their prime - as it is Kobe and Shaq won 3. I am not as sold on Dwight any more like I used to. He is one of the best and could be better if he applied himself, but I have some concerns that like Shaq he is lazy and lacks the drive to push hard enough

 

[Lakers+USC=#1]

Lebron was on a championship team in cleveland? WTF pass me that shit you smoking lol. When Lebron was in Cleveland they had the best record in the league. He leaves Cleveland and they end up with the worst record in the NBA???? yea that's a fucking championship team. Shit even when jordan left the bulls after winning the 3rd one and then retiring, the bulls still made the playoffs and took the knicks to 7 games. shaq leaves L.A and the lakers struggle for few years...kobe almost wanting to leave until paul gasol got there. trust me if Lebron had shaq or like you say less talented players like paul gasol, andrew bynum and lamar odom. Lebron would easily gotten those rings with them.

Too bad we judge things on what really happens, and not on "ifs"