Top 15 Players of All-Time List

[Nosferatu]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Oscar Robertson
3. Magic Johnson
4. Larry Bird
5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
6. Julius Erving
7. Hakeem Olajuwon
8. Wilt Chamberlain
9. Bill Russell
10. Tim Duncan
11. Shaquille O'Neal
12. Moses Malone
13. John Havlicek
14. LeBron James
15. Charles Barkley

 

[BOTSLAYER]

if that is your car... :bj:

 

[heatmyshorts]

Odom was not a top player when traded for Shaq. You are being ridiculous with Kobe here. You bash Kobe for not getting far with the likes of Smush Parker and Kwame Brown. You then heaped praise on Shaq for getting to the Finals with a much more talented Orlando squad.

By the way, before Bynum hurt his knee and the Pau trade, the Lakers had one of the better records in the league. They were 24-11 and playing very good basketball before Bynum went down against Memphis.

Kobe was at the height of his powers when he led the league in scoring. If not for the Lakers record, some have said that he deserved one of Nash's MVPs. But being a gifted scorer, which essentially defined most of his career was not a recipe for championship. Kobe had a taste of what championship basketball was Shaq. But he was more concerned about his stature as an individual player. Compost that to Duncan and the Spurs and realize why the Spurs remained in contention.

 

[Sman2011]

I love Kobe but not as much as to place him in the top ten. Think about this. When Kobe was the lone superstar after Shaq departed, what records did the Lakers have un the regular season? They were just at 50% i.e wonning 38 to 42 games. and one one occasion missed the playoffs once. When Gasol came the wins bumped up to 57. They won the championship the following year.

Compare that to Lebron. He took the Cavs team to new heights, even getting to the finals. Compare that to Shaq preLakers. He brought the Magic to the Finals. Unfortunately Hakeem was waiting. And after that, Jordan.
We all know what Duncan brought to the table year after year as well.

Titles are not everything. Otherwise Horry would be great. We have to take a good look at the entire package. I would not place Kobe in the top ten. And Lebron should hover around 9 or 10. Duncan should be close to that as well. I do not know much about the other greats other than jordan but I would put jordan above shaq. Shaq just a bit above Duncan. Duncan just a bit above Lebron. Lebron above Kobe. Kobe a bit above Hakeem. And Hakeem above Wade.

it's pretty obvious heatmyshorts that you don't know basketball as you admit: "I don't know much about the other greats...." So I'll give you a little education.

First of all, when Gasol joined the lakers in mid-season the Lakers record was 31-15. That's 67 pct winning clip....Memphis record when Gasol left was 12-30 which was the worst record in the nba...With Gasol on the Lakers they played at a 72 pct clip for the remainder of the season. So he improved them 5 pct pts, which is expected, (adding a good player to any team).

So NO GAsol didn't bump them up to 57 wins. They were already on pace to 52 games that season. And 2 they were not a 38-42 win team...They won 45 wins, the year prior..

I could correct more of what you said, but it's not worth my time.

Literally everything you wrote Heatmshorts is dead wrong.

Learn the game before you post next time.

Peace

 

[wlk3]

You guys keep trying to trash Sman if you want... But until somebody comes here and proves what he's saying is bullshit, like he's doing to some of you, you should show him some respect...

 

[heatmyshorts]

it's pretty obvious heatmyshorts that you don't know basketball as you admit: "I don't know much about the other greats...." So I'll give you a little education.

First of all, when Gasol joined the lakers in mid-season the Lakers record was 31-15. That's 67 pct winning clip....Memphis record when Gasol left was 12-30 which was the worst record in the nba...With Gasol on the Lakers they played at a 72 pct clip for the remainder of the season. So he improved them 5 pct pts, which is expected, (adding a good player to any team).

So NO GAsol didn't bump them up to 57 wins. They were already on pace to 52 games that season. And 2 they were not a 38-42 win team...They won 45 wins, the year prior..

I could correct more of what you said, but it's not worth my time.

Literally everything you wrote Heatmshorts is dead wrong.

Learn the game before you post next time.

Peace

Being on pace does not mean anything. Did anyone predict the 27 win streak based on the Heats start? What is conceivably clear is that Gasol turned the Lakers into champions. Gasol's playoff PER during the Lakers championship run was elite, even better than Kobe s at one point. Bynum and Gasol protected the paint against Boston in the fourth quarter. Kobe provided the fewe throws even if his jumper wasnt falling.

I did not ask you to educate me on the other greats. They have nothung to do with the point I was trying to make. Kobe is truly one of the best if not the best scoree in history. But we can all agree that at he did not lead the Lakers at his peak. Though let me say this... if Kobe had elite centers during his score at will powers he would have had more than 5 championships.

The Kobe that won the last two Laker championships was a smarter Kobe. He knows that his talents are more effective as a volume scorer and gwtting to the line. This typw of playbis effective when you have paint protectors and rebounders. That is the reason why he wants Gasol and a cooperative Howard around.

I bear no ill will sman. Kobe is a ruthless scorer and has a killer instinct. That part of him is not overrated. But when it comes to being among the best, he is.

 

[heatmyshorts]

You guys keep trying to trash Sman if you want... But until somebody comes here and proves what he's saying is bullshit, like he's doing to some of you, you should show him some respect...

We all know sman from cbs. We respect him enough to runderstand where he is coming from. Sman is just a reflection of most of you Laker fans who overrate Kobe and marginalize Shaq. Sman is doing the same to Gasol. Even Kobe himself knows how valuable Gasol is to him. His unselfish and efficient game (at his prime and when he is utilized properly under the right coach) at the post and paint support Kobe's ability to shoot in volumes and overwhelm teams that way.

Last season however was a different Kobe. He was more efficient, and there were a lot of games where he assisted. This translated to victories. This is perhaps where Kobe was kicking himself in the butt and wondered why he hasnt done this before. But he still fell to the temptation of doing it all himself. I believe its too little too late. Had he learned how to pass more especially if his shot wasnt falling, we wouldnt be having this conversation.

 

[heatmyshorts]

Kobe was at the height of his powers when he led the league in scoring. If not for the Lakers record, some have said that he deserved one of Nash's MVPs. But being a gifted scorer, which essentially defined most of his career was not a recipe for championship. Kobe had a taste of what championship basketball was Shaq. But he was more concerned about his stature as an individual player. Compare that to Duncan and the Spurs and realize why the Spurs remained in contention.

corrected

 

[heatmyshorts]

And 2 they were not a 38-42 win team...They won 45 wins, the year prior..

post Shaq, the Lakers accumulated 38 wins, 45 wins and 42 wins. Not a huge deal. Average their winning pct and its about 50%. The Lakers exited the first round, not unlike Carmelo led teams (except NY). They did not even make the playoffs when they won 38 wins.

People seem to forget this but when it is brought up, the Laker fans get all riled up. And start blaming the Laker players not named Kobe for the team's ineptitude.

 

[Sman2011]

We all know sman from cbs. We respect him enough to runderstand where he is coming from. Sman is just a reflection of most of you Laker fans who overrate Kobe and marginalize Shaq. Sman is doing the same to Gasol. Even Kobe himself knows how valuable Gasol is to him. His unselfish and efficient game (at his prime and when he is utilized properly under the right coach) at the post and paint support Kobe's ability to shoot in volumes and overwhelm teams that way.

Last season however was a different Kobe. He was more efficient, and there were a lot of games where he assisted. This translated to victories. This is perhaps where Kobe was kicking himself in the butt and wondered why he hasnt done this before. But he still fell to the temptation of doing it all himself. I believe its too little too late. Had he learned how to pass more especially if his shot wasnt falling, we wouldnt be having this conversation.

Time for a little more education heatmyshorts (or whoever you really are since you're not the original moron from cbs)....First of all, it's one thing to say Kobe was Robin to Shaq, which is not true, since Kobe often led the team in big playoff series like averaging 35 pts against Sac and 34 pts against S.A..

But to try and say Gasol was the "man" is just absurd....First of all, as I mentioned before, Gasol was on the worst team in the nba Memphis (12-30) when he came to the lakers. And Gasol had some solid players on the team like Rudy Gay and Conley. Yet memphis with Gasol was the worst team in the league.

Also, before Gasol joined forces with Kobe, do you know how many playoff series Gasol had won? Answer, zero. Do you know how many playoff games Gasol had won before joining forces with Kobe? You got it - ZERO.

So now you're going to tell me that Gasol was the actual main reason the lakers won 2 more rings and made 3 finals? Gasol a guy on the worst team in the league. A guy who had never won a playoff game let alone a series.

Think about what I just said. And then apologize.

Peace!!!

 

[heatmyshorts]

Time for a little more education heatmyshorts (or whoever you really are since you're not the original moron from cbs)....First of all, it's one thing to say Kobe was Robin to Shaq, which is not true, since Kobe often led the team in big playoff series like averaging 35 pts against Sac and 34 pts against S.A..

Predictably sman you have only selected series's were Kobe shined offensively. But his contributions make him a dependable and fantastic 2nd player to the alpha. That makes the young kobe a fantastic Robin. Tell me again what happened to Kobe s scoring and the Lakers record when Shaq left? Individual scoring isnt everything sman.

But to try and say Gasol was the "man" is just absurd....First of all, as I mentioned before, Gasol was on the worst team in the nba Memphis (12-30) when he came to the lakers. And Gasol had some solid players on the team like Rudy Gay and Conley. Yet memphis with Gasol was the worst team in the league.

So? That has nothing to do with Gasol s importance and difference making ability for the Lakers at the time. Your argument is fallacious because all you have to do is look at Gasol s stats and all around performances in the playoffs. We have danced this dance before with playoffs and Finals PERs. Gasol was a double double machine, top rebounder and shot alterer in the Finals.


Also, before Gasol joined forces with Kobe, do you know how many playoff series Gasol had won? Answer, zero. Do you know how many playoff games Gasol had won before joining forces with Kobe? You got it - ZERO.

So now you're going to tell me that Gasol was the actual main reason the lakers won 2 more rings and made 3 finals? Gasol a guy on the worst team in the league. A guy who had never won a playoff game let alone a series.

Think about what I just said. And then apologize.

Peace!!!

Pretty weak sman. Kobe will disagree. Gasol was a difference maker for the Lakers. Along with Bynum on the 5th championship. For all the criticisms you have for the Heat let me know if Gasol contributed zero points ala Bosh, then you can tell me that Gasol was not the man in LA. Kobe contributed scoring and free throws yes but Gasol and later Gasol and Bynum provided paint protection and contributed to scoring as well. Kobe still believes in Gasol and believes in having a rebounding and shot blocking edge to make his individual game more effective and allows more margin for error.

 

[celticsintheoc]

Kwame > Bill Russell
Greg Oden > Bill Russell
Michael Olowokandi > Bill Russell
Sam Bowie > Bill Russell
Joe Barry Carroll > Bill Russell
Travis Outlaw > Bill Russell
Luke Walton > Bill Russell

Your hate and jealousy of the great bill russell is obvious and pathetic.....

 

[heatmyshorts]

Your hate and jealousy of the great bill russell is obvious and pathetic.....

Has it to do with Russell robbing Chamberlain of all those championships? Even in the old days the Laker fans are bitter about the Celtics. And it passes down to this generation of Laker fans, who are bitter about the Heat.

 

[Sman2011]

Time for a little more education heatmyshorts (or whoever you really are since you're not the original moron from cbs)....First of all, it's one thing to say Kobe was Robin to Shaq, which is not true, since Kobe often led the team in big playoff series like averaging 35 pts against Sac and 34 pts against S.A..

Predictably sman you have only selected series's were Kobe shined offensively. But his contributions make him a dependable and fantastic 2nd player to the alpha. That makes the young kobe a fantastic Robin. Tell me again what happened to Kobe s scoring and the Lakers record when Shaq left? Individual scoring isnt everything sman.

But to try and say Gasol was the "man" is just absurd....First of all, as I mentioned before, Gasol was on the worst team in the nba Memphis (12-30) when he came to the lakers. And Gasol had some solid players on the team like Rudy Gay and Conley. Yet memphis with Gasol was the worst team in the league.

So? That has nothing to do with Gasol s importance and difference making ability for the Lakers at the time. Your argument is fallacious because all you have to do is look at Gasol s stats and all around performances in the playoffs. We have danced this dance before with playoffs and Finals PERs. Gasol was a double double machine, top rebounder and shot alterer in the Finals.


Also, before Gasol joined forces with Kobe, do you know how many playoff series Gasol had won? Answer, zero. Do you know how many playoff games Gasol had won before joining forces with Kobe? You got it - ZERO.

So now you're going to tell me that Gasol was the actual main reason the lakers won 2 more rings and made 3 finals? Gasol a guy on the worst team in the league. A guy who had never won a playoff game let alone a series.

Think about what I just said. And then apologize.

Peace!!!

Pretty weak sman. Kobe will disagree. Gasol was a difference maker for the Lakers. Along with Bynum on the 5th championship. For all the criticisms you have for the Heat let me know if Gasol contributed zero points ala Bosh, then you can tell me that Gasol was not the man in LA. Kobe contributed scoring and free throws yes but Gasol and later Gasol and Bynum provided paint protection and contributed to scoring as well. Kobe still believes in Gasol and believes in having a rebounding and shot blocking edge to make his individual game more effective and allows more margin for error.

LOL, heatmyshorts. I provide stats that show Gasol never won a playoff game without Kobe, (including this year) and all you have to say is "so. He's still the man because he provided rebounds.."

LOL...Give it up heatmyshorts. You can't even make a decent argument other than saying "so what".

Fact is this. Without Kobe:

Shaq was swept out of the playoffs 5 out of 6 years....With Kobe becoming a star, Shaq wins 3 rings.

Gasol without Kobe, has never won a single playoff game. With Kobe, Gasol makes 3 finals and wins 2 of them.


Enough already.

 

[HammerDown]

Your hate and jealousy of the great bill russell is obvious and pathetic.....

Mike Newlin > Bill Russell

 

[heatmyshorts]

LOL, heatmyshorts. I provide stats that show Gasol never won a playoff game without Kobe, (including this year) and all you have to say is "so. He's still the man because he provided rebounds.."

LOL...Give it up heatmyshorts. You can't even make a decent argument other than saying "so what".

Fact is this. Without Kobe:

Shaq was swept out of the playoffs 5 out of 6 years....With Kobe becoming a star, Shaq wins 3 rings.

Gasol without Kobe, has never won a single playoff game. With Kobe, Gasol makes 3 finals and wins 2 of them.


Enough already.

Hmmm. 2010 Kobe Finals MVP. If you are so sure sman, can you compare Gasols and Kobes Finals series stats agaunst Boston? And lets not select only stats that points to inefficient volume scoring. Maybe you will appreciate Gasol more.

Peace.

 

[Sman2011]

Kobe 29 pts, 8 rebs, 4asts,

Gasol 18 pts, 11rebs, 3.5 asts.....Is this supposed to be close? Kobe outscored Gasol by by 77 points in the series....

Wade was much closer to being mvp this year over lebron...25 pts for lebron to 21 for wade. Plus Wade didn't choke away game 6 like Lebron did (2 airballs, 2 turnovers last minute).

A lot of people say wade should be the mvp this year, especially since lebron was so poor in almost all the games but game 4 and 7.

 

[heatmyshorts]

Kobe 29 pts, 8 rebs, 4asts,

Gasol 18 pts, 11rebs, 3.5 asts.....Is this supposed to be close? Kobe outscored Gasol by by 77 points in the series....

Wade was much closer to being mvp this year over lebron...25 pts for lebron to 21 for wade. Plus Wade didn't choke away game 6 like Lebron did (2 airballs, 2 turnovers last minute).

A lot of people say wade should be the mvp this year, especially since lebron was so poor in almost all the games but game 4 and 7.

Sman u love rounding things off in favor of kobe and that is laughable.

Kobe 28.6 on 40 percent shooting
Gasol 18.6 on 49 percent shooting

Kobe 8 rebs per game
Gasol 11.6 rebs per game

Kobe 3.7 assists per game
Gasol 3.5 assists per game

Now tell me who os more efficient and dependable.

 

[tlance]

Kobe 29 pts, 8 rebs, 4asts,

Gasol 18 pts, 11rebs, 3.5 asts.....Is this supposed to be close? Kobe outscored Gasol by by 77 points in the series....

Wade was much closer to being mvp this year over lebron...25 pts for lebron to 21 for wade. Plus Wade didn't choke away game 6 like Lebron did (2 airballs, 2 turnovers last minute).

A lot of people say wade should be the mvp this year, especially since lebron was so poor in almost all the games but game 4 and 7.

Who, besides the biggest LeBron haters in the world say Wade should have been Finals MVP this year? Wade was horrendous for most of the series and was -58 in plus minus while all other starters were positive. LeBron had a couple mediocre scoring games, but did everything else.

Show me somebody who really believes Wade should have been MVP over LeBron and I will show you somebody who doesn't understand basketball.

 

[tlance]

After Sman's ridiculous claim that Wade could have been MVP, I went back to check the numbers, Here they are:

LeBron- 27.7 PPG, 10.9 Reb, 7 Asst, 2.3 Stl, .9 Blk
Wade- 20.9 PPG, 4.3 Reb, 4 Asst, 2 Stl, 1.1 Blk

LBJ averaged 7 more points, over 6 more Rebs, 3 more Assists and blocks and steals roughly canceled out.

This was a real photo finish. No debate here.