Magic Number / Final record

[scotsman1948]

no genius. I said at one point on the season he was not given a day off for over two months in spite of awful performance and giving other key players time off when they were struggling. Is tgat tge best you can do? Put words in another poster's mouth. You're really reaching here to hold onto any semblance of being right, buts it's just looking a little pathetic.

And no, the fact that the days off came as a result of paternity leave as opposed to Wash's decision to actually give him days off is not insignificant. It shows that Wash's refusal to give him days off in spite of his awful performance was actually hurting MY and the team as his performance has been better following the time off due to paternity leave taking the decision out of Wash's hands.

No you did not specify. You said 2 months without a day off. And I pool.Ted out he had had 5 days off in the last 30 games and now you're nitpicking about why he got the days off. I guess it only counts if Wash benches him in your book.

 

[scotsman1948]

Like I said. 2 months without a day off. That's fact.

Note this

 

[romeo212000]

No you did not specify. You said 2 months without a day off. And I pool.Ted out he had had 5 days off in the last 30 games and now you're nitpicking about why he got the days off. I guess it only counts if Wash benches him in your book.

Yes, you chose to run off at the mouth without actually taking the time to find out exactly what I was referring to. Of course making asinine statements without actually having the facts is nothing new to you.

And the fact that MY's days off were forced as a result of paternity leave as opposed to Wash's decision is significant in that it shows yet more piss more management skills by Wash. Wash refused to sit him and give him time off even for a period as long as 2 months in spite of his struggles. An intelligent manager would give his struggling veteran a couple days off to get his head clear and his feet back under him. However, wash refused to give him any significant time off until forced by paternity leave. At which point MY has come back looking better with improved results. The fact that you cannot grasp this concept is nothing short of stupefying to me and shows your baseball iq is even lower than I thought (which you didn't have much wiggle room as it was).

 

[romeo212000]

Note this

He did go 2 months without a day off. Right in the middle of his struggles in fact. What's your point? Not my fault you jumped all over one line without clarifying the facts.

 

[WilltheThrill]

Not sure why it's so hard for some people to understand. By far the lowest OBP of any regular on the team, an absolutely embarrassing RBI total for a DH hitting from the 5-6 hole in the league's best lineup, a liability in the field, the second lowest WAR of any regular player in baseball...

and yet nothing is changing still and nothing will. I don't care how many successful season's he's had in the PAST. This is now, not then. He's a player on the decline portion of his career and has shown virtually nothing to suggest he will rebound to even last year's mediocre level of performance. To trot him out there every single day without fail over more talented players with bigger upside just because he's the "leader" and is "proven" just goes against all logic. He still has a place on the team as a part-time player and clubhouse leader, and I don't think anyone would complain if he was in the lineup just most of the time. But Olt, Profar, Moreland, and Gentry all have had their playing time and development as promising hitters slashed due to Wash's insistence on playing MY every single day. And all of them, save maybe Olt, have made better contributions in their limited time than MY has all year as a regular.

And the stat of him missing 5 games over the last 30 is completely irrelevant in this discussion because it was not a choice to sit him in favor of better players. He left the team for paternity leave. You don't point to a player on the DL and say "see, sometimes he does sit out".

Bottom line is that he is no longer an everyday player but Wash treats him like one. Better players have their bats rusting on the bench due to a manager's stubbornness to placate a diminishing vet. The Rangers more times than not are suffering at the DH spot all in the name of living in the past and paying tribute to a team leader.

 

[romeo212000]

as we're having this argument MY belts his third homer on this road trip to tue the game. Glad to see him getting hot. It's certainly the right time and I pray he keeps it going.

 

[WilltheThrill]

as we're having this argument MY belts his third homer on this road trip to tue the game. Glad to see him getting hot. It's certainly the right time and I pray he keeps it going.

He's always been my favorite player and it kills me to see his decline. But more often than not he just hurts the team. Over the last 5 or so though he's been back to old-school MY. The HR sticking up for Nelly was just awesome.

 

[guitarmy21b]

Not sure why it's so hard for some people to understand. By far the lowest OBP of any regular on the team, an absolutely embarrassing RBI total for a DH hitting from the 5-6 hole in the league's best lineup, a liability in the field, the second lowest WAR of any regular player in baseball...

and yet nothing is changing still and nothing will. I don't care how many successful season's he's had in the PAST. This is now, not then. He's a player on the decline portion of his career and has shown virtually nothing to suggest he will rebound to even last year's mediocre level of performance. To trot him out there every single day without fail over more talented players with bigger upside just because he's the "leader" and is "proven" just goes against all logic. He still has a place on the team as a part-time player and clubhouse leader, and I don't think anyone would complain if he was in the lineup just most of the time. But Olt, Profar, Moreland, and Gentry all have had their playing time and development as promising hitters slashed due to Wash's insistence on playing MY every single day. And all of them, save maybe Olt, have made better contributions in their limited time than MY has all year as a regular.

And the stat of him missing 5 games over the last 30 is completely irrelevant in this discussion because it was not a choice to sit him in favor of better players. He left the team for paternity leave. You don't point to a player on the DL and say "see, sometimes he does sit out".

Bottom line is that he is no longer an everyday player but Wash treats him like one. Better players have their bats rusting on the bench due to a manager's stubbornness to placate a diminishing vet. The Rangers more times than not are suffering at the DH spot all in the name of living in the past and paying tribute to a team leader.

Agree with everything but this, he had one of the best years of his career last year. I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Windingmywatch]

Agree with everything but this, he had one of the best years of his career last year. I don't know what you're talking about.

Last year counts squat toward determining this year's potential. Ask Napoli.

 

[guitarmy21b]

Last year counts squat toward determining this year's potential. Ask Napoli.

Well yeah but there's no reason to say he had a mediocre year in '11 when he was a legitimate MVP candidate.

 

[Windingmywatch]

Well yeah but there's no reason to say he had a mediocre year in '11 when he was a legitimate MVP candidate.

MVP-8 is like getting a GG. Legitimate MVP candidate means you are in the top 3. Who voted for him ... EG?

And anyway ... counts squat toward 2012 if you are the DH and after the entire regular season is almost over all you have us a .654 OPS and a -1.3 oWAR.

Back on the old board guys ragged on Borbon for not having an OPS over .700 ... having your DH with a .654 OPS and -1.3 oWAR is embarrassing.

 

[guitarmy21b]

MVP-8 is like getting a GG. Legitimate MVP candidate means you are in the top 3. Who voted for him ... EG?

And anyway ... counts squat toward 2012 if you are the DH and after the entire regular season is almost over all you have us a .654 OPS and a -1.3 oWAR.

Back on the old board guys ragged on Borbon for not having an OPS over .700 ... having your DH with a .654 OPS and -1.3 oWAR is embarrassing.

I'm not defending his performance this year and I'm not saying last season should change how we feel about him now. All I'm saying is that calling his '11 season mediocre is retarded and simple untrue. Hate on MY all you want and I'll probably agree most of the time, but let's not start making shit up.

 

[Windingmywatch]

I'm not defending his performance this year and I'm not saying last season should change how we feel about him now. All I'm saying is that calling his '11 season mediocre is retarded and simple untrue. Hate on MY all you want and I'll probably agree most of the time, but let's not start making shit up.

I didn't say he was mediocre last year ... was someone else. I just think MVP-8 is a bit of a stretch to say he was a "legitimate MVP candidate". If it wasn't for EG's first place vote he'd not made the top 25 with his 2.1WAR.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_2011.shtml#ALmvp

 

[guitarmy21b]

I didn't say he was mediocre last year ... was someone else. I just think MVP-8 is a bit of a stretch to say he was a "legitimate MVP candidate". If it wasn't for EG's first place vote he'd not made the top 25 with his 2.1WAR.

2011 Awards Voting - Baseball-Reference.com

Will's comment was the one I originally commented on. MY was a legit MVP candidate because he had the best season on the best team in the AL. You can't always go by numbers in MVP arguments. The argument could be made that he was more valuable than anyone else was to their team(besides Verlander of course). Hamilton & Beltre each missed around 40 games and MY played in all but 3, with over 200 hits and over 100 RBI. He was invaluable to us last year, and the general consensus on this board was that he at the very least deserved to be mentioned in the MVP discussion. Again, I'm not defending him this year, but it seems some people are trying to rewrite history and that's not fair to MY.

 

[Windingmywatch]

The whole MVP thing to me is a waste ... lots of folks think it ought to be based on the value of the player to his team ... but its always about the numbers because a subjective true MVP would be impossible to award. Which would be okay with me.

Post season individual awards mean squat.

 

[WilltheThrill]

Will's comment was the one I originally commented on. MY was a legit MVP candidate because he had the best season on the best team in the AL. You can't always go by numbers in MVP arguments. The argument could be made that he was more valuable than anyone else was to their team(besides Verlander of course). Hamilton & Beltre each missed around 40 games and MY played in all but 3, with over 200 hits and over 100 RBI. He was invaluable to us last year, and the general consensus on this board was that he at the very least deserved to be mentioned in the MVP discussion. Again, I'm not defending him this year, but it seems some people are trying to rewrite history and that's not fair to MY.

Admittedly, "mediocre" was a bit harsh. That was a poor choice of words on my part. I was headed out for the evening and didn't put as much thought into that description as I should have. But my line of thinking was "mediocre" as compared to real studs like the Cabreras and Brauns of the game. And there too, that's probably an unfair comparison for MY.

But he was not an MVP player last year. WMW is right. MVP-8 is like Gold Glove status. It doesn't necessarily hold that much weight. He had a nice season by his standards... just ok by more elite player standards.

Again, I think I've probably come off too much as a MY basher here. He's always been my favorite Ranger and I still root very hard for the guy. But even with his better than average year last season, his stats across the board over the last 3 years, taking into account his batting and fielding, are much more indicative of a part-time or fringe player on a playoff team.

 

[bone3421]

how bout we all just quit talking about young......we know he is awful this year and wash is going to play him..it sucks but all we can do is bitch about

i wish wash would just give it up but it wont happen,so i say we just all quit bickering back in forth about it

what say you........

 

[jta4437]

Will's comment was the one I originally commented on. MY was a legit MVP candidate because he had the best season on the best team in the AL. You can't always go by numbers in MVP arguments. The argument could be made that he was more valuable than anyone else was to their team(besides Verlander of course). Hamilton & Beltre each missed around 40 games and MY played in all but 3, with over 200 hits and over 100 RBI. He was invaluable to us last year, and the general consensus on this board was that he at the very least deserved to be mentioned in the MVP discussion. Again, I'm not defending him this year, but it seems some people are trying to rewrite history and that's not fair to MY.

Not even close, Beltre had a better season than Young easily, I'd even venture to say Hamilton as well

 

[guitarmy21b]

Not even close, Beltre had a better season than Young easily, I'd even venture to say Hamilton as well

Better power numbers sure but the point was they were both missed significant time and MY was really the only constant source of offense throughout the entire season. Napoli probably had the best year at the plate IMO but didn't play as much as he should have.

 

[jta4437]

So more games played means better season?

Runs: 82 to 88
HRs: 32 to 11
RBIs: 105 to 106
OPS: .892 to .854
WAR: 5.6 to 2.1

All this in 35 fewer games