Magic Number / Final record

[fordman84]

I didn't say he needed to be riding pine 7 days a week, but he didn't need to be playing 2 months straight without a day off either.

I agree that he shouldn't be playing, but what is Wash supposed to do? What would you be saying about Wash had he sat Mike and that soured the clubhouse?

 

[romeo212000]

I agree that he shouldn't be playing, but what is Wash supposed to do? What would you be saying about Wash had he sat Mike and that soured the clubhouse?

Sitting mike 2-3 days a week wouldn't have soured the clubhouse. That's a bs excuse from MY and Wash apologists.

 

[fordman84]

Sitting mike 2-3 days a week wouldn't have soured the clubhouse. That's a bs excuse from MY and Wash apologists.

If you take the face of your franchise and your clubhouse leader and you bench him for 40%-50% of the games, you will most certainly sour the clubhouse. I have a feeling all of us have played and/or coached organized sport so we know this to be true. If you take your feelings out of the equation you will see that.

 

[scotsman1948]

Sitting mike 2-3 days a week wouldn't have soured the clubhouse. That's a bs excuse from MY and Wash apologists.

haven't heard either say that. all i have heard is Wash saying he has faith in Young and that he isn't going to go against that faith

 

[romeo212000]

well how many days of that 2 months (let's say 60 games) would you have had him sitting?

5?

10?

20?

30?

40?

50?

Would've had him sitting 2-3 days a week. So 2.5 x 8.5 weeks = approximately 20 games. Less a couple for days off en sech

 

[romeo212000]

haven't heard either say that. all i have heard is Wash saying he has faith in Young and that he isn't going to go against that faith

No but the MY and wash apologists have said it. In fact, that's all they seem to be able to offer when confronted with numbers and facts. An unquantifiable and unqualifiable statement.

 

[romeo212000]

If you take the face of your franchise and your clubhouse leader and you bench him for 40%-50% of the games, you will most certainly sour the clubhouse. I have a feeling all of us have played and/or coached organized sport so we know this to be true. If you take your feelings out of the equation you will see that.

Again, completely unquantifiable and unqualifiable. I know if I'm in that clubhouse I'm tired of seeing runs taken off the board due to GIDPMY.

 

[fordman84]

No but the MY and wash apologists have said it. In fact, that's all they seem to be able to offer when confronted with numbers and facts. An unquantifiable and unqualifiable statement.

Derek Jeter

Sucked last year. Should have been benched, but wasn't because he is the face of the franchise and their clubhouse leader. Managers do this stuff all the time, because it is just how things are done.

 

[fordman84]

Again, completely unquantifiable and unqualifiable. I know if I'm in that clubhouse I'm tired of seeing runs taken off the board due to GIDPMY.

And is it all forgiven when he hits a game winning HR or basehit, that he couldn't have done from the bench and there is no way you can guarantee me that another hitter definitely would have done the same.

 

[romeo212000]

Derek Jeter

Sucked last year. Should have been benched, but wasn't because he is the face of the franchise and their clubhouse leader. Managers do this stuff all the time, because it is just how things are done.

Jeter was nowhere near as bad ad MY.

Some numbers from Jeter last year.
WAR: 2.3
Avg: .297
OPS: .743
OBP: .355

MY:
WAR: -1.5
Avg: .269
OBP: .299
OPS: .654

I think we'd be ecstatic right now if we could trade MY's current year for Jeters "awful " year last year.

 

[romeo212000]

And is it all forgiven when he hits a game winning HR or basehit, that he couldn't have done from the bench and there is no way you can guarantee me that another hitter definitely would have done the same.

So because it happened to be MY all's forgiven? Not by me. I dont base my opinions of players on one moment. I do so over their body of work the entire season. By that logic I'll say you can't guarantee another player wouldn't have hit it.

 

[scotsman1948]

Again, completely unquantifiable and unqualifiable. I know if I'm in that clubhouse I'm tired of seeing runs taken off the board due to GIDPMY.

we lead baseball in runs scored at 709 and by a wide margin and every player has contributed in the failure to score more. how many runs has Kinsler cost us because of his base-running blunders and sky-high pop-ups? how many runs has Hamilton cost us because of his free-swinging batting style? and how about other players on the team? if i were a player i would recognize that GIDP's, pop-ups, swinging at balls in the dirt and base-running blunders are all part of the game. they happen to every team and you don't dwell on them. if you do then the chemistry of the team suffers. nothing i've seen from this team shows that anyone on the team is doing that, it seems to be coming only from some fans

 

[fordman84]

Jeter was nowhere near as bad ad MY.

Some numbers from Jeter last year.
WAR: 2.3
Avg: .297
OPS: .743
OBP: .355

MY:
WAR: -1.5
Avg: .269
OBP: .299
OPS: .654

I think we'd be ecstatic right now if we could trade MY's current year for Jeters "awful " year last year.

You don't remember his first half of the year?

 

[fordman84]

So because it happened to be MY all's forgiven? Not by me. I dont base my opinions of players on one moment. I do so over their body of work the entire season. By that logic I'll say you can't guarantee another player wouldn't have hit it.

I don't have to guarantee another player wouldn't have hit it, I'm arguing that Young should have been in there and since it actually did happen...I can guarantee that he did.

If you base your lineup on what someone has done all season, then you would never change your lineup unless there were an injury...unless you have reason to believe someone can do better. Maybe based of your personal history with someone?

 

[scotsman1948]

So because it happened to be MY all's forgiven? Not by me. I dont base my opinions of players on one moment. I do so over their body of work the entire season. By that logic I'll say you can't guarantee another player wouldn't have hit it.

just as you can't guarantee that another player wouldn't have grounded into the same double-play or skied a pop-out or gotten a hit in the same situation.

 

[fordman84]

This is a cyclical argument that we can never prove or disprove.

So long story short, like what Wash does or don't...doesn't matter. If it really bothers you that much then get into coaching, work your way up to the Majors, and do it your own way. Unless you have the coaching and pro-ballplayer skins on the wall to match Wash, I'll defer to going along with his way.

 

[Windingmywatch]

Sitting mike 2-3 days a week wouldn't have soured the clubhouse. That's a bs excuse from MY and Wash apologists.

Agree ... and the time off might actually have made a difference in MY's production too.

If that was the expected level of his play ... 3 to 4 games a week I have to believe the bench guys would not be the ones souring the clubhouse. Somehow I don't see Elvis grumping to media that he's "soured" because MY isn't playing every day.

Face of the franchise is just a marketing poof. You don't hear anyone in the TEX organization call Young the face of the franchise. Only the media and marketeers do it.

 

[romeo212000]

we lead baseball in runs scored at 709 and by a wide margin and every player has contributed in the failure to score more. how many runs has Kinsler cost us because of his base-running blunders and sky-high pop-ups? how many runs has Hamilton cost us because of his free-swinging batting style? and how about other players on the team? if i were a player i would recognize that GIDP's, pop-ups, swinging at balls in the dirt and base-running blunders are all part of the game. they happen to every team and you don't dwell on them. if you do then the chemistry of the team suffers. nothing i've seen from this team shows that anyone on the team is doing that, it seems to be coming only from some fans

Josh was called out on his crap play by wash and Nolan both. MY is the only one that seems untouchable. Again, you've written a very long paragraph and backed your statements up with not one single piece of quantifiable evidence.

 

[Windingmywatch]

I don't have to guarantee another player wouldn't have hit it, I'm arguing that Young should have been in there and since it actually did happen...I can guarantee that he did.

If you base your lineup on what someone has done all season, then you would never change your lineup unless there were an injury...unless you have reason to believe someone can do better. Maybe based of your personal history with someone?

"If you base your lineup on what someone has done all season, then you would never change your lineup unless there were an injury"

Maybe you would do that ... but I would ensure enough PT to make sure each guy on the roster could contribute to the whole in the role he had on that roster.

In fact it is based on what a player has done all season that provides you the reason to diversify your lineup. If you play the same guys all the time then you are never going to be any better than those guys ... and you will know nothing about the quality and capability of your bench.

Quite honestly for me ... this TEX team is boring to watch. I don't like them as much as I liked the 2010 and 2011 teams. I attribute that to seeing the same roster run out there every night and the exciting guys sitting on the bench rarely involved in the game.

 

[romeo212000]

just as you can't guarantee that another player wouldn't have grounded into the same double-play or skied a pop-out or gotten a hit in the same situation.

really? That's the best you come back with? MY is the second worse every day player in the league. Plain and simple.