The Case Against MJ as the GOAT (topical discussion only please)

[dtgold88]

Yes because you LeBron fans have brought so much fact and substance to the conversation.

LOL

Feel free to address my second to last post above.

no need to keep lying, Tommy, as there are no Lebron fans here.

 

[dtgold88]

Holy shit some of the comments in here are just retarded as hell. Derp he quit lol, ok!!!

Oh, the irony of you calling any comment retarded.

definition of quit - "to stop doing something or leave a job or a place"

Also ya gotta love this forum

 

[msgkings322]

no need to keep lying, Tommy, as there are no Lebron fans here.

I am. I’m an MJ fan too. They’re the best players I’ve ever seen.

 

[dtgold88]

Don’t care that you’re wrong. I loved the part where you said LeBron didn’t have great athleticism though. Kills your credibility to be honest.

Right? If he wanted to quit like MJ likely could have played in the NFL and not just sucked at baseball in the minors.

 

[dtgold88]

I am. I’m an MJ fan too. They’re the best players I’ve ever seen.

fair point....meant choosing one over the other. Not sure anyone here is convinced Lebron the GOAT.

 

[dtgold88]

"You're wrong because I said so."
Signed,
LeBron fans

LOLOLOL

...and I never said LeBron didn't have great athleticism (just about every player has to have great athleticism to make it to the profesion al level). I said LeBron doesn't have GOAT level athleticism... and he doesn't. He relies on power, strength and size much moreso than athleticism.

Fact.

Yeah it's not like he could not have quit to play a sport requiring far more athleticism in the NFL as opposed to sucking at minor league baseball.

 

[dtgold88]

You can't refute fact and truth, so you deflect instead... I understand

oh, the irony.

 

[dtgold88]

interchangeable in his era. 5.3 assists per game. Doesn't sound like a full time shoot guard to me.

ya know it'a OK to be wrong and just be an adult and say so? MJ was not a PG. He also averaged 6.5 rpg which is as much or even more than some PFs and centers so I guess he's also a PF/C?

Is Jokic who averages close to double the assists also a PG? How about Lebron?

 

[dtgold88]

You can define him however you want but he played like a point guard. The average shooting guards in his era did not average 5.3 assists per game.

Incredibly high usage and took a lot of shots but played like a PG?

Ya gotta love this forum.

 

[dtgold88]

Don't believe I called you a LeBron nut-hugger - lololol... don't even know who the hell you are, TBH "except" you call Jordan the GOAT yet you defend LeBron.

Strange...

because you can think MJ the GOAT but can make a case for Lebron or at very least think it's close?

 

[dtgold88]

How about checking his player page?

He is listed as a shooting guard/small forward. 2 positions that really are interchangeable.

Most perimeter players with usage rates as high as Jordan’s get 5 assists per game. That is not a very high number.

Jordan had 1 outlier season in which he averaged 8 assists per game. That year he was 10th in assists.

For most of his career he couldn’t crack the top 20 in assists per game.

In other words, his assist totals would have ranked him well below league average against other starting point guards from his era, but consistently close to the top of the SG/SF assist leaders.

So do you really want to keep calling him a PG?

at this point you know he will.....zero chance he has it in him to just be an adult and admit he was way off base (or factually incorrect).

 

[dtgold88]

Good post. I appreciate your input. I think position-labeling players like Jordan, LeBron, Westbrook, Oscar, Magic, etc, is a fool's game. They do not traditionally play like the position they are assigned to or labeled as.

That's a fair comment....but MJ played like a SG or SF much more than a PG. Not meant as a knock at all.

 

[dtgold88]

Well LeBron hasn't done himself any favors over the years with the debacle known as "The Decision", the non-stop crying and whining to the refs about fouls (for a guy who plays 38 min/g over his career and gets whistled for just 1.5 on average when we all know he commits more than that in just the first Quarter alone), the ridiculous flopping and flailing antics (for a guy who is 6'8 and 250+ pounds of solid muscle), the constant excuse-making and/or blaming other people or circumstances when he loses, making asinine statements like "Not 1, Not 2, Not 3..." and "That one right there made me the GOAT", etc., etc.

Fact is James is not a very likeable guy. He's rubbed a huge chunk of the NBA community the wrong way, and put a target on his back ... so that's why his game is scrutinized much more than other guys who have been compared to Jordan over the years. Plus, if we're being honest, there's a ton of annoying ass LeBron fans out there as well.

That's about the best way I can sum up why LeBron takes so much heat... and IMO it's well deserved heat that he brought on himself.

But I digress...

Happen to think Lebron a drama queen and too much of a narcissist.....but you think less likable the MJ?

 

[dtgold88]

The irony being MJ averaged more free throw attempts per game than Lebron.

yep...but bigger irony is he thinks anyone in this thread is a Lebron fanboy.

 

[dtgold88]

So why is this thread 25 pages long then?

I get you have comprehension issues (and lie a lot) but as said by many the only pushback on you (other than calling out your lies and double standards) is thinking there is no debate in the discussion.

 

[dtgold88]

Oh stop...

Jordan only faced the Celtics in his 2nd and 3rd seasons, when Charles Oakley was the second-best player on the Bulls and those Celtics had five (5) HOFERS on the roster. Bostion was kicked off the EC mountain by the Bad Boys in 88, and the following two seasons (89 and 90) no team in the NBA played the 2-time Champion Pistons tougher than Jordan and the Bulls.

The 91 Lakers were old? You sure about that?

Magic: 31
Teagle: 30
Worthy - 29
Scott - 29
Perkins - 29
AC Green - 27
Divac - 22
Campbell - 22

That was LA's top 8 rotation guys in the Finals... and Magic was #2 in MVP voting that year, while Worthy was an All NBA / All Star as well. They were far from old.

"Old" would be the Spurs, who crushed "absolute prime" LeBron and the Heat in 5 games during the 2014 Finals

playing them tougher but losing is an accomplishment if it's MJ?

 

[PolarVortex]

That's a fair comment....but MJ played like a SG or SF much more than a PG. Not meant as a knock at all.

You're catching on. Study the game some more and maybe you won't be so quick to criticize your betters.

 

[dtgold88]

You're catching on. Study the game some more and maybe you won't be so quick to criticize your betters.

If you still think MJ was a PG I would still mock you....he wasn't. It's funny you'd tell someone to study the game more but contend MJ was a PG.

Ya gotta love this forum.

 

[PolarVortex]

If you still think MJ was a PG I would still mock you....he wasn't. It's funny you'd tell someone to study the game more but contend MJ was a PG.

Ya gotta love this forum.

Mock all you want. Seems to empower you somehow. Meanwhile, I'll travel over to a different thread.

 

[dtgold88]

Mock all you want. Seems to empower you somehow. Meanwhile, I'll travel over to a different thread.

Empower me? Just free comedy when what I assume is an adult makes such an absurd comment that is factually incorrect and cannot just own it and move on.

All the best in your newer endeavors